The Trinity

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Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#621
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#621
Dead wrong....

mark54 said:
There is no plain scripture thatstates Jesus is God Himself in the Bible.
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Dead.

Wrong.

We already provide a clear-cut example for you long ago.

You ignored it completely...and ran away.

Repeating your ignorance over and over will not suddenly make your world-view true.

 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#622
#622
Mark,

Before you claim victory in saying that Jesus is not God, would you like to continue our discussion about the Word and how He LEFT HIS GLORY in Heaven to take on the flesh of man and how He RECEIVED that same glory back when He returned?

What glory: the glory which belongs only to an only begotten, the glory of having created all things, the glory we define when we say Creator. Indeed, He, the Word, upholds all things by His own power. Truly, only God can create and uphold ALL THINGS by His own POWER.

Come and let us reason my Brother. Only God is worthy of worship, this we all know. We are told to worship the Creator of all things. The Word, the same One we know as Jesus in the flesh, created all things. Did the Word become less God because He placed human flesh upon Himself? Did not the Son, who is that same Word, receive His glory back?
 
M

mark54

Banned
#623
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#623
cfultz3 said:
Mark,

Before you claim victory in saying that Jesus is not God, would you like to continue our discussion about the Word and how He LEFT HIS GLORY in Heaven to take on the flesh of man and how He RECEIVED that same glory back when He returned?

What glory: the glory which belongs only to an only begotten, the glory of having created all things, the glory we define when we say Creator. Indeed, He, the Word, upholds all things by His own power. Truly, only God can create and uphold ALL THINGS by His own POWER.

Come and let us reason my Brother. Only God is worthy of worship, this we all know. We are told to worship the Creator of all things. The Word, the same One we know as Jesus in the flesh, created all things. Did the Word become less God because He placed human flesh upon Himself? Did not the Son, who is that same Word, receive His glory back?
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If you have read my posts, especially today, I am claiming if you like that it is an internet demand(in most cases) that a person must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, that is my issue

As to reasoning, to what end Cfultz?

To say that the plain scripture is wrong?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#624
#624
We are told that the Son is the expressed image (exact copy) of God's essense. That is, whatever it is which makes God God is also to be found in the Son.

If they both have the same essence, that which makes God God, then would not the Son be God also, seeing that He also has that same essence?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#625
#625
mark54 said:
If you have read my posts, especially today, I am claiming if you like that it is an internet demand(in most cases) that a person must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, that is my issue

As to reasoning, to what end Cfultz?

To say that the plain scripture is wrong?
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To that question I do not speak, but to the statement of saying that Jesus is not God.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#626
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#626
cfultz3 said:
We are told that the Son is the expressed image (exact copy) of God's essense. That is, whatever it is which makes God God is also to be found in the Son.

If they both have the same essence, that which makes God God, then would not the Son be God also, seeing that He also has that same essence?
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The Son has the nature of the Father, yes, but man made reasoning cannot be used to say this means the Son is GoD Himself
 
M

mark54

Banned
#627
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#627
cfultz3 said:
To that question I do not speak, but to the statement of saying that Jesus is not God.
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Also, Arius believed in the divinity of Christ. Do you accept he was saved/a Christian?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#628
#628
mark54 said:
The Son has the nature of the Father, yes, but man made reasoning cannot be used to say this means the Son is GoD Himself
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Manmade reasoning: so say the genes of identical twins.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#629
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#629
cfultz3 said:
Manmade reasoning: so say the genes of identical twins.
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The prescence of the Father fully exhibits in the Son. Scholars and theologians and those with brilliant minds may then deduce what they wish, but that is man made reasoning. And therein lies the problem
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#630
#630
mark54 said:
Also, Arius believed in the divinity of Christ. Do you accept he was saved/a Christian?
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Only God knows that answer, as you well know. I am simply asking you about the Word. Do you think He was not God before He became flesh?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#631
#631
If you would, what is your take of the Word? The same Word who spoke in the Old Testament?
 
M

mark54

Banned
#632
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#632
cfultz3 said:
Only God knows that answer, as you well know. I am simply asking you about the Word. Do you think He was not God before He became flesh?
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I believe what the bible states, the Father is the only true God. That to me is far more reliable than the nicene, creed, the most brilliant of schlars or theologians, or the reasoning of the most gifted, for they are the words of Christ Himself. I will not oppose them
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#633
#633
mark54 said:
I believe what the bible states, the Father is the only true God. That to me is far more reliable than the nicene, creed, the most brilliant of schlars or theologians, or the reasoning of the most gifted, for they are the words of Christ Himself. I will not oppose them
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Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God..

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )

Christ our Lord....

But then again Mark, it is not my place to convice you otherwise.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#634
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#634
cfultz3 said:



Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God..

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Christ our Lord....

But then again Mark, it is not my place to convice you otherwise.
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Back to square one

So you are saying Christ lied when he prayed to the Father and claimed he was the only true God

Paul lied when he said for us there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ

But this is not a discussion I really want to get into. I believe I have made very clear my only interest here is to defend the biblical belief neccessary according to Christ himself unto salvation
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#635
#635
mark54 said:
I believe what the bible states, the Father is the only true God. That to me is far more reliable than the nicene, creed, the most brilliant of schlars or theologians, or the reasoning of the most gifted, for they are the words of Christ Himself. I will not oppose them
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Well I guess you can keep thinking that..and see what it gets ya in the end...
 
M

mark54

Banned
#636
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#636
BarlyGurl said:
Well I guess you can keep thinking that..and see what it gets ya in the end...
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Do you think I will be condemned on the day of judgement for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#637
#637
mark54 said:
Back to square one

So you are saying Christ lied when he prayed to the Father and claimed he was the only true God

Paul lied when he said for us there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ

But this is not a discussion I really want to get into. I believe I have made very clear my only interest here is to defend the biblical belief neccessary according to Christ himself unto salvation
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We both seem to be a little more brotherly, so let us not go the route of accusations, it is unbecoming. Don't you think?

This is post 589 which explains:

Let us minus the commas, placed there intentionally or unintentionally (understanding that we inserted the commas for ease of understanding):

there is but one God the Father
and
one Lord Jesus Christ.

And this was said in contradiction of those who believed in idols (many gods)
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#638
#638
>>>>But then again Mark, it is not my place to convince you otherwise.<<<<

No it isn't, but you have tried to show him his error... which by now IMO it is fairly evident his error goes far beyond this simple little fixation and pollutes his doctrine entirely... as in What the purpose of the familial, patriarchal relationship of the trinity is FOR... how the principals develop thru the bible... etc.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#639
#639
mark54 said:
Back to square one

So you are saying Christ lied when he prayed to the Father and claimed he was the only true God

Paul lied when he said for us there is but one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ

But this is not a discussion I really want to get into. I believe I have made very clear my only interest here is to defend the biblical belief neccessary according to Christ himself unto salvation
Click to expand...

Of course, if you do not wish to talk about it, we won't. But, claiming the Word is not God is claiming that the LORD is not the Savior. We can stop the conversation here.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#640
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
#640
cfultz3 said:
Of course, if you do not wish to talk about it, we won't. But, claiming the Word is not God is claiming that the LORD is not the Savior. We can stop the conversation here.
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no point for you ignore the plainest of scripture on this subject in favour of reasoning that you wish to contradict it
 
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