The Trinity

[Jon4TheCross]

Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

So is it God the Father, God the Son and the (7) Spirits of God?

How can that be a "Trinity"?

.

1+1 = 1 in regards to God. 7+7 = 1 in regards to God. A million times a million equals 1 (union/unity) I have always been under the impression that when people talk about the "Trinity", that they are talking about the Holy Spirit/Soul/Earthen Vessel combo without measure and with no beginning. If it doesn't have a beginning, it's God. If it has a beginning, it's not God. The seven spirits of God are not clarified (as far as I know) to have no beginning. Are you assuming that those spirits have no beginning? Rev 1:4 John[SUP]G2491 to theG3588 sevenG2033 churchesG1577 whichG3588 are inG1722 Asia:G773 GraceG5485 be unto you,G5213 andG2532 peace,G1515 fromG575 him which is, and which was, and which is to come;G3801 andG2532 fromG575 theG3588 sevenG2033 SpiritsG4151 whichG3739 areG2076 beforeG1799 hisG848 throne;G2362 [/SUP]
I would not have capitalized the word Spirits, and I don't know why they did. Here's the definition, and if you can find anywhere that indicates those spirits have no beginning, then I'd be very interested. G4151

πνεῦμα

pneuma

pnyoo'-mah

From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I will answer your question IF you admit the ONLY NAme a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation is the Son of God, for that is what I have shown you that scripture plainly states. A person must believe Jesus is the son of God unto salvation, nothing more, not God Himself, not anything else, that name is all one must believe
If you will not accept that plain truth of scripture as I showed you, then I don't feel obliged to answer any question of yours, your choice

Where do you find that the only name is Son of God? I know of no scriptures indicated that the only name whereby we must be saved is Son of God?

 

[mark54]

Where do you find that the only name is Son of God? I know of no scriptures indicated that the only name whereby we must be saved is Son of God?

Twill not answer your question, unless you accept this truth unto salvation, you want a verse I will give you it

If anyone believes Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God lives in him and he in God
1John 4:15

If God lives in a person, we both know they are saved

 

[cfultz3]

I will answer your question IF you admit the ONLY NAme a person must believe Christ to be unto salvation is the Son of God, for that is what I have shown you that scripture plainly states. A person must believe Jesus is the son of God unto salvation, nothing more, not God Himself, not anything else, that name is all one must believe
If you will not accept that plain truth of scripture as I showed you, then I don't feel obliged to answer any question of yours, your choice

Readers,

One must believe that Jesus is the Son from God. The Son He supplied Himelf when He told Abraham that He would supply His own Son. It is not the name which gives salvation, it is the faith you place in Him. There are too many names given to Jesus to say that you must call him Son of God to receive salvation.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[mark54]

Readers,

One must believe that Jesus is the Son from God. The Son He supplied Himelf when He told Abraham that He would supply His own Son. It is not the name which gives salvation, it is the faith you place in Him. There are too many names given to Jesus to say that you must call him Son of God to receive salvation.

That did make me smile Cfultz

 

[mark54]

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Then I will not answer your question, for you have very plainly been given the scripture that states if a person believes Jesus is the son of God, they are saved with that belief of who he is

 

[mark54]

Anyways, its late in England(or early) thanks all for the chat
Must retire

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Twill not answer your question, unless you accept this truth unto salvation, you want a verse I will give you it

If anyone believes Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God lives in him and he in God
1John 4:15

If God lives in a person, we both know they are saved

Your scripture says nothing about the son of God being the only name that can save. The key words there are "believes Jesus is..... and then comes the son of God part. To believe Jesus is the son of God, first a person must understand what the son of God is. Once we understand (count the cost) concerning the example of the Son of God, then we can decide to go for it ourselves, but we are adopted with a beginning. Jesus Christ of Nazareth has no beginning, and all with no beginning are God.

 

[mark54]

Your scripture says nothing about the son of God being the only name that can save. The key words there are "believes Jesus is..... and then comes the son of God part. To believe Jesus is the son of God, first a person must understand what the son of God is. Once we understand (count the cost) concerning the example of the Son of God, then we can decide to go for it ourselves, but we are adopted with a beginning. Jesus Christ of Nazareth has no beginning, and all with no beginning are God.

You know that response typifies the absolute waste of time of all that studying you have done, you do not undertand the spiritual reality sadly. and Trinitarian belief itself stands aggainst you
Christ only asked that we believe he is the Son of God unto salvation, not God Himself

Therefore, if anyone is led of the Holy Spirit and refuses to accept the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto salvation but adds to it it must be true that the Spirit of God contradicts the word of God, in Trinitarian terms God then contradicts God and the belief collapses

 

[cfultz3]

Your scripture says nothing about the son of God being the only name that can save. The key words there are "believes Jesus is..... and then comes the son of God part. To believe Jesus is the son of God, first a person must understand what the son of God is. Once we understand (count the cost) concerning the example of the Son of God, then we can decide to go for it ourselves, but we are adopted with a beginning. Jesus Christ of Nazareth has no beginning, and all with no beginning are God.

Jon,

As a reminder to you and I am sure you are aware of it, he changed from saying that we have to call Him a certain name to believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[mark54]

Jon,

As a reminder to you and I am sure you are aware of it, he changed from saying that we have to call Him a certain name to believing that Jesus is the Son of God.

But he has already made clear in his posts you have to accept Christ is God unto salvation, for he believes Jesus of narerath is God Himself
I know you are upset Cfultz, but try not to be, this is only cyberspace after all

 

[cfultz3]

But he has already made clear in his posts you have to accept Christ is God unto salvation, for he believes Jesus of narerath is God Himself
I know you are upset Cfultz, but try not to be, this is only cyberspace after all

Originally Posted by Abiding

So you dont believe Jesus IS God?

Mark:
Oh not again Abiding!!!!!!

Why start it up AGAIN with me

No, I believe Christ is the Son of God, that's it

But despite the fact I think you are mistaken to give Christ the title God Himself, I'm an easy goin' non judgemental type, so I'm cool with you being my brother so to speak

You equal Trinitarians have gotta learn to be less judgemental and accept the scriptural requirement unto salvation. That should be your bottom line, not the nicene creed

 

[mark54]

Originally Posted by Abiding

So you dont believe Jesus IS God?

Mark:
Oh not again Abiding!!!!!!

Why start it up AGAIN with me

No, I believe Christ is the Son of God, that's it

But despite the fact I think you are mistaken to give Christ the title God Himself, I'm an easy goin' non judgemental type, so I'm cool with you being my brother so to speak

You equal Trinitarians have gotta learn to be less judgemental and accept the scriptural requirement unto salvation. That should be your bottom line, not the nicene creed

Absolutely Cfultz, thank you for posting it, that is what I believe, and below is what John believes

You don't think that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is a name? I already told you Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God. There is no other name that can save us, but Jesus Christ of Nazareth. I cannot give you any other name, I'm sorry, it's Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and there is NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN, given among men whereby we must be saved. There's no salvation in any other but Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth refers to Almighty God. Almighty God refers to the I AM. How else can I explain to you that Jesus Christ of Nazareth (that's the name you're looking for) is the one and only name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved? Jesus Christ of Nazareth (that's the name of the fullness of the Godhead bodily).

 

[mark54]

Therefore, if anyone is led of the Holy Spirit and refuses to accept the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down unto salvation but adds to it it must be true that the Spirit of God contradicts the word of God, in Trinitarian terms God then contradicts God and the belief collapses

And the above is the truth

 

[cfultz3]

I fell for that. Going to sleep now

 

[mark54]

I fell for that. Going to sleep now

See ya........

 

[mark54]

I'm going to sleep as well, goodnight John

 

[mark54]

If you have only known (1) God then that (1) God would be the only true God!

Who is this below that the elders saw in the OT?


Exod.24
[10] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


.

Hi

i'll come to the above in a miniute

See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.[SUP]22 [/SUP]If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out.
ex 23:20-23

Can I ask you?

who is speaking to Moses in the above verses?


Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up [SUP]10 [/SUP]and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire,[SUP][b][/SUP] clear as the sky itself. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Ex24:9-11

Christ appeared to the elders

Can I ask you?

Who is speaking to Moses in Exodus ch33?

 

[mark54]

[/B]I have never understood that passage. I can't think dimensionally like that. I'd like to but even the explanations I have seen are over my head.

The same can be said with these other passages. Jesus is in reference with these passages. Psalm 110:1 is found in Mark 12:35-36

Jesus asks them a question on who the Christ is and simply asks how they can understand that the Christ is David's son when David calls him Lord? The Lord is whom in this passage?

And since you brought it up, how do you understand the passage

You mean this passage Anonimous?

Christ came from the royal line of DAVID so in that sense he is a son of David/his son

But David speaking under the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit called him lord, because:

Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up [SUP]10[/SUP]and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire,[SUP][b][/SUP] clear as the sky itself. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
ex24:9-11



David was an Israelite, Christ was his Lord

So Christ was his lord, being the God of Israel, but also his son as he was born on the flesh of David's line, but remember, he was speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
My Lord said to my Lord...............

Hence Elizabeths words

Why should I be so favoured that the mother of MY LORD should come to visit me
Luke1:43

And hence Thomas words

My Lord and my God
John 20:28

Christ did not correct Thomas, but only three chapters earlier had stated

Now this is eternal life, that they may know you(the Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

The Father being the other Lord David spoke about under inspiration of the Holy Spirit