believe there is only 1 true God, that's what I hold to tooth and nail. However, I believe that God has 3 personages. When I state that I don't believe they are human persons, but persons refer to distinct aspects to who they are. They all have their own 'job descriptions' so to speak. To clarify that, I don't believe that God the father died on the cross, but the son and not the spirit as well.
The point is, Christ said ONLY ONE OF THOSE PERSONAGES was the ONE TRUE GOD(The Father)
But the following verses state,
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. John 17:5
Jesus says himself he had (already had, already possessed, did not receive) the same glory with the father. They had the exact same glory!
YES, Christ had glory with the Father before the world began
If you want to extrapolate beyond that be my guest, but i know nothing of pre the biblical begining, so I do not discuss it.
Your theological extrapolations mean nothing to me, here is plain scripture
You just told someone you didn't want scripture, but a simple response. Yet, here you say you only want the plain scripture. Well, what is it??? The reason why I asked questions based on the scripture is because you have to be able have the proper understanding of those scriptures. Can you please point out my theological extrapolations? You have not even begun to respond to my questions and I have taken time to respond to yours. I don't believe Christ is God based on Mark 2 alone. What about the verses like
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
I have gone over this verse previously in this thread, I CAN'T be expected to keep repeating myself, but if you go through the posts you will find it
Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM. John 8:58
Yes, Christ existed before Abraham was born
I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God. John 10:30-33
I and the Father are one. I have given explanation to this three times now in this thread
One verse
That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one(John17:22)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. Col 2:9
I have constantly said I affirm that is the truth
But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
Quote the next verse too
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD...............................
You say you want simple scripture, but you will not accept simple exchange on this topic. I ask you questions that you automatically dismiss and say I have extrapolations, but when asked questions you say all you want is simple scripture. You have a blatant double standard that has been pointed out, not only by myself, but others as well. The scriptures command us to properly handle the words of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) and also to follow the inspired words of the apostle Peter which states,
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 Peter 3:14-18
Condemnation is not mine, but the Lord's. I ask again, please, give me an understanding of all the verses I have stated. Its a simple easy request that you yourself have asked for. And might I point out
I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me. Isaiah 43:11
yES
Yet I have been the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.
How is Jesus savior at all???
God saves us through His Son who is our Saviour
I am sorry if you feel i have not spent enough time in detailed replies to you, but it is not possible(for me anyway) to have about five converstations going on at once and to respond to everybody thoroughly.
If you want to continue this let me know, but it is my turn to put questions to you next. That is fair debate isn't it?
You will see above I have also done what you asked, and responded to Psalm110:1 which incorporastes the other scriptures I gave you yesterday
BTW
I do not profess to be able to answer every question put to me, I haven't been to theological college, I haven't read up of scholars and theologians, i am not a minister and was not the smartest kid at school. However, neither have i ever met anybody else who can answer EVERY QUESTION placed before them on this subject. Nearly all at some time or another have ducked or evaded something, AND THAT INCLUDES MINISTERS. If you feel i have done this with you, I can only apologise
The point is, Christ said ONLY ONE OF THOSE PERSONAGES was the ONE TRUE GOD(The Father)
But the following verses state,
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. John 17:5
Jesus says himself he had (already had, already possessed, did not receive) the same glory with the father. They had the exact same glory!
YES, Christ had glory with the Father before the world began
If you want to extrapolate beyond that be my guest, but i know nothing of pre the biblical begining, so I do not discuss it.
Your theological extrapolations mean nothing to me, here is plain scripture
You just told someone you didn't want scripture, but a simple response. Yet, here you say you only want the plain scripture. Well, what is it??? The reason why I asked questions based on the scripture is because you have to be able have the proper understanding of those scriptures. Can you please point out my theological extrapolations? You have not even begun to respond to my questions and I have taken time to respond to yours. I don't believe Christ is God based on Mark 2 alone. What about the verses like
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
I have gone over this verse previously in this thread, I CAN'T be expected to keep repeating myself, but if you go through the posts you will find it
Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM. John 8:58
Yes, Christ existed before Abraham was born
I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God. John 10:30-33
I and the Father are one. I have given explanation to this three times now in this thread
One verse
That they(the believers) may be one AS we are one(John17:22)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form. Col 2:9
I have constantly said I affirm that is the truth
But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
Quote the next verse too
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD...............................
You say you want simple scripture, but you will not accept simple exchange on this topic. I ask you questions that you automatically dismiss and say I have extrapolations, but when asked questions you say all you want is simple scripture. You have a blatant double standard that has been pointed out, not only by myself, but others as well. The scriptures command us to properly handle the words of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) and also to follow the inspired words of the apostle Peter which states,
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 Peter 3:14-18
Condemnation is not mine, but the Lord's. I ask again, please, give me an understanding of all the verses I have stated. Its a simple easy request that you yourself have asked for. And might I point out
I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me. Isaiah 43:11
yES
Yet I have been the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.
How is Jesus savior at all???
God saves us through His Son who is our Saviour
I am sorry if you feel i have not spent enough time in detailed replies to you, but it is not possible(for me anyway) to have about five converstations going on at once and to respond to everybody thoroughly.
If you want to continue this let me know, but it is my turn to put questions to you next. That is fair debate isn't it?
You will see above I have also done what you asked, and responded to Psalm110:1 which incorporastes the other scriptures I gave you yesterday
BTW
I do not profess to be able to answer every question put to me, I haven't been to theological college, I haven't read up of scholars and theologians, i am not a minister and was not the smartest kid at school. However, neither have i ever met anybody else who can answer EVERY QUESTION placed before them on this subject. Nearly all at some time or another have ducked or evaded something, AND THAT INCLUDES MINISTERS. If you feel i have done this with you, I can only apologise
