Meant to say except. However we must accept what was done on the cross. If He had not, which he prayed three times that that it not happen. But, all praise be to his name, he said not my will but your will be done. Praise GOD.
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danschance
Guest
What do you mean by oppressed and can you post a scripture or two that supports this? You also mention "True Believers" and sin.
I am inclined to agree with your post and here is why:
We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1John 5:18 ESV) [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, serif] This means that if we have a chronic or repetitive sin issue we are wide open for satan to touch us.
Here is a case to study. Judas was a disciple of Christ. Ostensibly he was a christian but he had a chronic sin issue, GREED. Greed had such a hold on him that he was willing to sell out Jesus for 30 coins. The bible is clear, satan entered into Judas (Luke 22:3) and this means Judas was a demon possessed believer in Christ, but he was not exactly a true believer.
This goes back to the same point I have tried to drive home more than a few times on this thread. Which is "DEMON POSSESSION IS A SIN RELATED CONDITION" and any Christian who has a chronic sin issue is very much at risk to becoming demon possessed... [/FONT]
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danschance
Guest
I have cast demons out of CHRISTIANS many a time. Nothing more to add to that
Care to share one story of deliverance?
K
Kefa52
Guest
You will never convince me that a baliever can be posessed in any way.
Though demons can enter and possess any unbeliever, they cannot enter
into the body of those who belong to the Lord. There are a number of
reasons why this is so.
Greater Is He
The Bible says that the one who indwells believers is greater than the one who is in the world.
Those who have trusted Christ have been delivered from the possibility of demonic possession. Paul wrote.
Believers
have nothing in common with darkness or Satan. The Holy Spirit, and a
demonic spirit, cannot co-exist in the same person.
Finally,
there is no example in Scripture of a believer in Jesus Christ being
demon-possessed. All cases of demonic possession were with those who
were unbelievers.
Passages In Support?
Sometimes
the following passages are cited as support of believers being
possessed. Paul ordered the church of Corinth to deliver a believer over
to Satan.
Two Others
The Bible speaks of two other individuals who were also delivered over to Satan.
People Taken Captive
Another passage speaks of people being taken captive by the Devil.
people under discussion in this context are not believers. Consequently
there is no Scriptural support for the idea that Christians can become
demon-possessed.
What About Stories Of Believers And Demons?
If
this is the case, then what about the stories that circulate with
respect to believers and demon-possession. Examples are provided of
believers who exhibit symptoms of demon possession. When people give
examples of believers being possessed, there are a number of questions
that immediately arise, "Were these victims of demon possession really
believers?" "Were they actually possessed with a demon, or is there
another possible explanation for their behavior?" Since the Bible gives
no support that a believer can be possessed by a demon, some other
explanation must be in order.
Permanent Indwelling Of Holy Spirit
The issue is clear. It is not whether a professing
Christian can be demon-possessed, but rather can a genuine, "born
again" Christian become demon-possessed? The Bible teaches that those
who have trusted Christ are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Believers are a new creation in Christ.
The body of the believer is now a temple of the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says that such evil powers cannot separate the believer from the love of God.
mentioned are the angels and principalities - angelic orders. Not even
they can separate the believer from the love of God. All of these things
would make demon-possession an impossibility for the believer.
Spiritual Balance Needed
Satan
and demons are defeated foes, yet they are still very active in this
world, causing much harm. Though they cannot possess and control a
believer, they can cause a number of problems.
Summary
The
Scripture does not teach that a Christian can be possessed by a demon.
The believer is "in Christ,"- one of His. Every example in the Bible of a
person being demon-possessed concerns an unbeliever - there are no
examples of believers being possessed. Furthermore, we must be careful
not to rely on stories of believers and demon-possession - many other
explanations are possible. The Christian, who is indwelt by the Holy
Spirit, need not fear demon possession. Yet, demons do attack believers
in various ways. Therefore, it would be wrong to say that they cannot
have any affect on the Christian.
Though demons can enter and possess any unbeliever, they cannot enter
into the body of those who belong to the Lord. There are a number of
reasons why this is so.
Greater Is He
The Bible says that the one who indwells believers is greater than the one who is in the world.
You are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
Delivered
Those who have trusted Christ have been delivered from the possibility of demonic possession. Paul wrote.
in
which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the
ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among
those who are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2).
The believers do not live any more under their authority. which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the
ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among
those who are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2).
He
has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the
kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness
of sins (Colossians 1:13,14).
Nothing In Common has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the
kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness
of sins (Colossians 1:13,14).
Believers
have nothing in common with darkness or Satan. The Holy Spirit, and a
demonic spirit, cannot co-exist in the same person.
And what agreement has Christ with Belial? or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? (2 Corinthians 6:15).
No Biblical Example
Finally,
there is no example in Scripture of a believer in Jesus Christ being
demon-possessed. All cases of demonic possession were with those who
were unbelievers.
Passages In Support?
Sometimes
the following passages are cited as support of believers being
possessed. Paul ordered the church of Corinth to deliver a believer over
to Satan.
to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).
There is no evidence that the person whom Paul delivered over to Satan became demon-possessed.
Two Others
The Bible speaks of two other individuals who were also delivered over to Satan.
of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme (1 Timothy 1:20).
As is the case with the believer in Corinth, there is no indication that either of these men were ever demon-possessed.
People Taken Captive
Another passage speaks of people being taken captive by the Devil.
and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will (2 Timothy 2:26).
The
people under discussion in this context are not believers. Consequently
there is no Scriptural support for the idea that Christians can become
demon-possessed.
What About Stories Of Believers And Demons?
If
this is the case, then what about the stories that circulate with
respect to believers and demon-possession. Examples are provided of
believers who exhibit symptoms of demon possession. When people give
examples of believers being possessed, there are a number of questions
that immediately arise, "Were these victims of demon possession really
believers?" "Were they actually possessed with a demon, or is there
another possible explanation for their behavior?" Since the Bible gives
no support that a believer can be possessed by a demon, some other
explanation must be in order.
Permanent Indwelling Of Holy Spirit
The issue is clear. It is not whether a professing
Christian can be demon-possessed, but rather can a genuine, "born
again" Christian become demon-possessed? The Bible teaches that those
who have trusted Christ are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
In
Him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your
salvation, and had believed in Him, were marked with the seal of the
promised Holy Spirit; this is the pledge of our inheritance toward
redemption as God's own people, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13,14).
New Creation Him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your
salvation, and had believed in Him, were marked with the seal of the
promised Holy Spirit; this is the pledge of our inheritance toward
redemption as God's own people, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13,14).
Believers are a new creation in Christ.
So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Body Temple Of Holy Spirit
The body of the believer is now a temple of the Holy Spirit.
Or
do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is
in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19).
Cannot Separate The Believer From The Lord do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is
in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19).
The Bible says that such evil powers cannot separate the believer from the love of God.
For
I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor
height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us
from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38,39).
SpeciallyI am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor
height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us
from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38,39).
mentioned are the angels and principalities - angelic orders. Not even
they can separate the believer from the love of God. All of these things
would make demon-possession an impossibility for the believer.
Spiritual Balance Needed
Satan
and demons are defeated foes, yet they are still very active in this
world, causing much harm. Though they cannot possess and control a
believer, they can cause a number of problems.
Summary
The
Scripture does not teach that a Christian can be possessed by a demon.
The believer is "in Christ,"- one of His. Every example in the Bible of a
person being demon-possessed concerns an unbeliever - there are no
examples of believers being possessed. Furthermore, we must be careful
not to rely on stories of believers and demon-possession - many other
explanations are possible. The Christian, who is indwelt by the Holy
Spirit, need not fear demon possession. Yet, demons do attack believers
in various ways. Therefore, it would be wrong to say that they cannot
have any affect on the Christian.
A
Anonimous
Guest
Personally, I do not believe that is possible. Light and darkness can't exist together. If osme one is truly saved and have the Spirit dwelling them than I would have to say No. But, I think even a Christian can be Oppressed which is different entirely. As far as exorcisms go....? Just because someone is a christian does NOT mena they can go out and try to perform one. I could be wrong here...but, if anyone were to even think about trying it or even attending one they had better be careful. Demons are a toy or something to be trifled with. That person doing it had better make sure they are right and clean before God before messing with that kind of stuff. Remember, even some of Jesus' disciples were unable to cast demons out.
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Donkeyfish07
Guest
Sins are what open the door to oppression and possession. A believer that is obedient and ceases from sin will never come under the enemies power. If a believer becomes disobedient and immerses themselves in sin, they open themselves up to attack and possession can be possible in cases like that. Sin is what gives the enemy dominion.
K
Kefa52
Guest
This is Soooooowrong.
(We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1John 5:18 ESV) This means that if we have a chronic or repetitive sin issue we are wide open for satan to touch us.)
Where did you get this from?...( This means that if we have a chronic or repetitive sin issue we are wide open for satan to touch us.)
(We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1John 5:18 ESV) This means that if we have a chronic or repetitive sin issue we are wide open for satan to touch us.)
Where did you get this from?...( This means that if we have a chronic or repetitive sin issue we are wide open for satan to touch us.)
K
Kefa52
Guest
K
Kefa52
Guest
This whole discussion borderlines on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
If a person were to get posessed they never knew Christ to start with.
If a person were to get posessed they never knew Christ to start with.
While I don't believe that a demon can possess the spirit of a truly born again Christian. I do not doubt that demons can dwell in the soul and body of a Christian.
We are the temple of God, and we can be compared to the tabernacle or temple.
The spirit of a born again believer is the holy of holies: where God dwells and only the high priest (Jesus) can enter. Our souls are the inner court: where only priests were permitted to enter, and our bodies are the outer court: where all were permitted to dwell.
We are the temple of God, and we can be compared to the tabernacle or temple.
The spirit of a born again believer is the holy of holies: where God dwells and only the high priest (Jesus) can enter. Our souls are the inner court: where only priests were permitted to enter, and our bodies are the outer court: where all were permitted to dwell.
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Donkeyfish07
Guest
2 Peter 2:20-22
"
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
There are consequences to sin, even to a believer. As far as the specifics myself and the other man in this thread mentioned that have spoken of our experiences....We are aware that teachers receive the stricter judgement. I'm telling you brother that it is possible to become entangled in sin and that demons can gain a stronghold if you do not guard yourself. I am well aware of the fact that on judgement day, I will have to answer for everything that I have said here. I'm not here to tell people false information.
While this inside the temple it is not in the presence of God, so demons can dwell there if a believer permits it.
Demons can dwell in the body without permission; usually in the form of sickness.
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Donkeyfish07
Guest
DansChance hasn't responded yet so I don't answer for him......but I agree with him. A person can not engage in sin repetitively without repenting and expect there to be no consequences. I get that statement from experience. I've been delivered from Demonic oppression/possession and there is no doubt that it was something I did that gave them a stronghold/doorway. Where do I get it from? Experience. I'm not the only one who has found this to be true either, there are thousands of Deliverance ministers in the world that deal with this kind of thing.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I seem to get the impression that you assume that no one that is alive today has experience in dealing with these issues at all.
K
Kefa52
Guest
Knowledge of the lord is not accepting Jesus. Even satan himself has knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
K
Kefa52
Guest
I believe you have delt with some deception and that you have been decieved. A true believer, even struggling with sin can not be posessed.
"You are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world" (1 John 4:4).
MatthewThen 28:18 "Jesus came near and said to them, "All authority has been given to Me in
heaven and on earth".
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Donkeyfish07
Guest
Your wrong about that brother. I know you would like to believe otherwise but it just isn't so.
C
Crazy4GODword
Guest
A Christian cannot be possessed for within him he has the Holy Spirit. God and devil cant operate together. You must give yourself to the devil for him to possess you.
When Jesus cast out the approximate 2,000 demons from the man at Garadenes (might have misspelled that) They (the demons) asked permission to be cast in to the pigs. Evidently they had permission to possess the man. I don't think that GOD would allow one his children to be possessed by the devil. How can GOD and a demon posses the same temple. However, we have not yet entered the kingdom age where everthing and everyone is perfect. So a Christian who truly loves the Lord can be bound by sin ( Romans chapter 7). Was Paul saved, I think so even, baptized in the Holy Spirit. However he said the things I will to do I do not and those thing which I will not to do those I do. He didn't want to do these things but had no choice. He even said that he was captive. Then when the the true meaning of the cross was revealed to him ( Romans chapter 8) He was free and rested in Christ and not in his fleshly works.
Look GOD has never accepted a work of the flesh. It must from Him,by Him, and through Him. When Cain offered Him the works of his hand it was rejected. when Abel offered a lamb it was accepted. The lamb was created by God and so was the vegetation that Cain offered. However the lamb did not require mans intervention. but the grain that Cain offered did. When we look to our flesh, That is to say our talents, education it is rejected by GOD. He said it' not might nor by power but, By My Spirit saith The LORD
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Donkeyfish07
Guest
Repentance is the real issue for believers I think. If you mess up, and repent....you'll do well. The only way a believer is ever in any danger of that happening is if they backslide to the point where they are living in sin and not repenting. Everyone on this thread is right when they say that a demon can not possess a believer.....as long as the believer is submitting to the Lord and repenting when they make mistakes....I'm only speaking of people who are not doing that.
1 Timothy 4:1
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils"
Those are the people I am speaking of. That's why I have to say something every time I see someone saying that it can not happen.
1 Peter 5:8
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour"
Why do you think we are warned to be sober and vigilant? You think the Devil never devoured anybody that let their guard down?