The Trinity

[PS]

I don't understand your post

Then pray about it and try to understand that preaching about heresy opens the door to Satan, it cause people to question, it may cause some may lose their faith and it may split the church. It happened in the early church and satan who has more followers is even more active today.

It is the ministers job to preach the pure undiluted Gospel and not introduce the teaching of heretics and you are wrong to suggest they should.

 

[mark54]

Then pray about it and try to understand that preaching about heresy opens the door to Satan, it cause people to question, it may cause some may lose their faith and it may split the church. It happened in the early church and satan who has more followers is even more active today.

It is the ministers job to preach the pure undiluted Gospel and not introduce the teaching of heretics and you are wrong to suggest they should.

And to you that Gospel is that a person must believe Jesus is God Himself unto salvation, and if they don't believe that they are Apostate, cannot be saved , and are therefore damned and will go to hell

But I have never heard that preached from the pulpit so are the Trinitarian ministers failing to to do their job correctly?

 

[PS]

And to you that Gospel is that a person must believe Jesus is God Himself unto salvation, and if they don't believe that they are Apostate, cannot be saved , and are therefore damned and will go to hell

The Gospel is "Jesus Saves."

Heresy is the belief that Jesus is not God.

 

[mark54]

The Gospel is "Jesus Saves."

Heresy is the belief that Jesus is not God.

Then if you believe hersey will send a person to hell, don't you therefore believe that it should be plainly preached from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the son of God but not God himself they are a heretic, damned and will go to hell They cannot be saved with such a belief

 

[PS]

Then if you believe hersey will send a person to hell, don't you therefore believe that it should be plainly preached from the pulpit that if a person believes Jesus is the son of God but not God himself they are a heretic, damned and will go to hell They cannot be saved with such a belief

You are a case in point as to the futility of it.

Please do not blame other people for your firmly held belief. You have no excuse because you have been told time and time again but still you hold to the Arian heresy.

 

[mark54]

You are a case in point as to the futility of it.

Please do not blame other people for your firmly held belief. You have no excuse because you have been told time and time again but still you hold to the Arian heresy.

But I have only been told ON THE INTERNET PS, not by any minister from the pulpit

 

[PS]

But I have only been told ON THE INTERNET PS, not by any minister from the pulpit

It isn't the ministers job to introduce heresy into the church.

 

[mark54]

It isn't the ministers job to introduce heresy into the church.

Aw come on, lets agree to disagree and be friends

Us Brits need to stick together!

 

[PS]

Aw come on, lets agree to disagree and be friends

Us Brits need to stick together!

So how about letting it drop?

 

[mark54]

So how about letting it drop?

I want to with you PS, I prefer us to be friends, .
BTW
If you look back over this thread from the earlier pages I didn't even want to discuss this subject, but someone kept pestering me to respond to the question of disagreemnt here. I ignored them for a while, didn't want to get involved, but they didn't seem to want to let the matter drop, neither do many others now

Anyway, I hope you are keeping well.
We will meet in Heaven and then you won't be disagreeing with me, for then you will be see it my way

That was a joke BTW

 

[PS]

I want to with you PS, I prefer us to be friends, .
BTW
If you look back over this thread from the earlier pages I didn't even want to discuss this subject, but someone kept pestering me to respond to the question of disagreemnt here. I ignored them for a while, didn't want to get involved, but they didn't seem to want to let the matter drop, neither do many others now

Anyway, I hope you are keeping well.
We will meet in Heaven and then you won't be disagreeing with me, for then you will be see it my way

That was a joke BTW

We are friends Mark and this is why I am concerned. I think if we acknowledged that Almighty God has the power to become man for a season while still being omnipresent in Spirit then this issue could be resolved. I wish you God's blessing.

 

[mark54]

We are friends Mark and this is why I am concerned. I think if we acknowledged that Almighty God has the power to become man for a season while still being omnipresent in Spirit then this issue could be resolved. I wish you God's blessing.

I wish you God's blessings too.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

If it pleases you to depend on someone's take on Greek grammar for your doctrine, that's fine.

What a pathetic and lame excuse.

I reference experts in their respective fields when I do my research because that is their profession and they have made it their life's work. Such it is with any medical doctor that you would be 'pleased' to go to if you have a concern with an ailment - unless, of course, you think that you are an expert in all areas already.

No doubt, you already googled for an answer and were left wanting.

Just accept the fact that TSKS is one of the most proven concepts in Greek grammar. We can go over this in more detail if you want to be thoroughly convinced.

Thus, Jesus Christ is DIRECTLY called God in the NT.

You cannot change this fact by ignoring it...

This is fact: God declares Jesus Christ to be His Son.

And?

Is this supposed to somehow thwart the Trinity?

This is fact: God declares that his Son is his Christ: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. [Rev. 11:15]

And?

Is this supposed to somehow thwart the Trinity?

Why do you choose to ignore the legions of scriptures in Revelation which plainly show His deity?

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down which accused them before our God day and night. [Rev. 12:10]

This is fact: Jesus Christ declares: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. [John 16:27,28] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. [John 8:42]

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God. . . .

The purpose of the gospel of John: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This is fact: I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Epraim; for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. [Hosea 11:9]

God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken and shall he not make it good?

God said Jesus Christ is his Son and if I change that to mean anything else then I am calling God a liar. . .So I prefer to believe what God says.

How do any of these supposedly thwart the Trinity?

You don't even know, do you?

You don't even know what the Trinity even is in the first place....so how can you use it as a reference for any other scripture?

The Trinity already comprehends ALL scripture.

NO scripture thwarts the Trinity, as the Trinity already represents ALL scripture.

When are you going to understand this cold, hard fact?

 

[Bowman]

When I worship the Son, I am honoring the Son not as God but as God's Son;

The only begotten son of a human, is human.

The only begotten Son of God, is God.

when I worship God the Father I am honoring the Father, who is God -

But, God is Spirit.

The Father is not the Spirit.

This then, leaves you to worship at least TWO Gods, not one.

I am a unitarian. I have God as my Father just as Jesus has God as his Father.

If you are a unitarian, then why is it that you quote Trinitarian rendered scripture for your position?

The first and great commandment is to Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength. . . That is what Jesus did and that is what I endeavor to do.

The Shema is Trinitarian.

 

[mark54]

Re: Wake up...

What a pathetic and lame excuse.

I reference experts in their respective fields when I do my research because that is their profession and they have made it their life's work.


Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25[/SUP]For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.






Thus, Jesus Christ is DIRECTLY called God in the NT.

Elin does not appear to agree with you, neither do Trinitarian ministers who have discussed this subject with me, but I guess they were not as well read as you

You cannot change this fact by ignoring it...

The crowds were amazed at his teaching because he taught as one who had authority and not as their teachers of the law
Matt7:29

Commonly interpreted as Jesus did not have to rely on others for his beliefs(including scholars and theologians I guess)

 

[mark54]

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [SUP]7 [/SUP]No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. [SUP]8 [/SUP]None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [SUP]9 [/SUP]However, as it is written:“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”[SUP][b][/SUP]—

[SUP]10 [/SUP]but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. [SUP]13 [/SUP]This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Bowman]

Well to be honest, if you are going to go to such lengths as you have with John 17:3 to reason it to mean something completely different from what it plainly states I would not be part of such a discussion. To me that descends the conversation into farce
If you want to scripturally discuss this with me pleae give me plain scripture(not scripture you have to theologise to mean what you want) that clearly states Christ is the one true God, then I will discuss this subject with you according to what you scripturally bring forth. For I can give you plain scripture that backs up what I believe so for a level playing field, I require the same of you

I already provided the plain English rendering for you. You have chosen to run in lieu of directly addressing it.

I mean, any other translation that you would choose (and have already chosen) were rendered by Trinitarians in the first place!!!

Just admit that its yet another American victory over the Brits.

BTW
to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,(Luke1:77)

I may have missed your post that corrctly answered your oft repeated question
'Saved from what?

With the above answer,
We are saved from our sin Bowman. As I say, I may have missed your post that stated that, I guess I must have done, for every minister of every church I have ever been to believes that is the answer.

It is so simple I have never before had such a question put to me, and I did slip the answer into a previous post to you, but you failed to spot it

When we are 'saved' this means that we are 'saved' from the wrath of God at Judgement.

But...please tell us who is Judge on that Day?

That's right, the Son, God.

Please tell us who is our Savior?

That 's right, the Son, God.



That's what I have been waiting for you to finally admit.

 

[mark54]

I
Just admit that its yet another American victory over the Brits.






.

And I thought the Holy Spirit led us into truth, and he was not of any particular nationality

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

Elin does not appear to agree with you, neither do Trinitarian ministers who have discussed this subject with me, but I guess they were not as well read as you

Instead of constantly worrying about others - why don't you scripturally prove YOUR position.

Yeah, right....but I have to ask....

 

[mark54]

I already provided the plain English rendering for you. You have chosen to run in lieu of directly addressing it.

I mean, any other translation that you would choose (and have already chosen) were rendered by Trinitarians in the first place!!!

.

What you have given is the most apalling exegesis I have ever heard
But if you are right, why are you on the internet?
Even ministers of many years have not come up with your explanations.

Why are you not a minister Bowman?