Dual Covenant Theology

[eternally-gratefull]

Just put in my false vote.. who said that this was true?? we need to talk!!

 

[SarahM777]

What did Jesus say,

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. [SUP]35 [/SUP]John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.[SUP]37 [/SUP]And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, [SUP]38 [/SUP]nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. [SUP]39 [/SUP]You study[SUP][c][/SUP] the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, [SUP]40[/SUP]yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“I do not accept glory from human beings, [SUP]42 [/SUP]but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. [SUP]43 [/SUP]I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[SUP][d][/SUP]?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. [SUP]46[/SUP]If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. [SUP]47 [/SUP]But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

In Romans 3 we read this

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP]Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—[SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What did Jesus say,

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. [SUP]35 [/SUP]John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.[SUP]37 [/SUP]And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, [SUP]38 [/SUP]nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. [SUP]39 [/SUP]You study[SUP][c][/SUP] the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, [SUP]40[/SUP]yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“I do not accept glory from human beings, [SUP]42 [/SUP]but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. [SUP]43 [/SUP]I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[SUP][d][/SUP]?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. [SUP]46[/SUP]If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. [SUP]47 [/SUP]But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

In Romans 3 we read this

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.[SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP]Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,[SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—[SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

or how about this

10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

 

[psychomom]

I wouldn't use the word elevates to explain that Jews are blessed.

I am told that I have three days to clear my house out so wood floors can be put in throughout! I am 87. Just packing the books so the bookcases can be moved!!!!! or I would search for the scriptures.

It was a careful study of Romans that led me to this understanding. Then I did a history study of the development of the thought that cultimated in such as "Jews are Christ killers, it is OK to kill them" which was the worst of anti Jew .Zech 8:23 gives us something to wonder about.
Zech 8:23 [SUP]23 [/SUP]The Lord of Hosts says this: “In those days, 10 men from nations of every language will grab the robe of a Jewish man tightly, urging: Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

If you will use your concordance or eSword, etc. and search for Jew, etc. I think you will find verses to back up my thinking.

well, you kept saying 'special', so to me it seemed as though the unsaved Jew is for some reason...er...better? in God's eyes?

i do not envy you that task (nor would i anyone of any age!) but i'm sure you'll love the new floors.

perhaps after you've had a rest, when all is put back we could re-visit this?

-ellie

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well, you kept saying 'special', so to me it seemed as though the unsaved Jew is for some reason...er...better? in God's eyes?

i do not envy you that task (nor would i anyone of any age!) but i'm sure you'll love the new floors.

perhaps after you've had a rest, when all is put back we could re-visit this?

-ellie

true, God does not hold any unsaved person over another, they are in a condemned state, dead to God.

 

[GreenNnice]

Just put in my false vote.. who said that this was true?? we need to talk!!

My covenant is peace with my Saviour, knowing Him because I love Him because He first loved me. It is something not to be of dissenssion but of love, and, technically, dual covenant belief, or not, does not get you into Heaven, or, not; it only shows a little of what kind of belief in Christ one has, which may be nice to know but should be of little concern to you IF a brother, or, sister, disbelieves in the beilef that unifies yours .

I vote 'love.' And, I vote 'Love Jesus,' the Rock whom your future rests, and, your present, and, your past's been completely done through, so, as you believed, that is, and, followed Him. The Lord leads. Believe in the One whom God sent, that is His Son but is, too, the One who sent His Son, who is the Holy Spirit seed, who became, for you and me, a baby boy, born in a manger, then, named Jesus, then named the 'King of the Jews,' (mockingly) and then named Lord of Lords and King of Kings !!! Glory ! Halelujah !!! Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

View attachment 41282

My covenant is peace with my Saviour, knowing Him because I love Him because He first loved me. It is something not to be of dissenssion but of love, and, technically, dual covenant belief, or not, does not get you into Heaven, or, not; it only shows a little of what kind of belief in Christ one has, which may be nice to know but should be of little concern to you IF a brother, or, sister, disbelieves in the beilef that unifies yours .

I vote 'love.' And, I vote 'Love Jesus,' the Rock whom your future rests, and, your present, and, your past's been completely done through, so, as you believed, that is, and, followed Him. The Lord leads. Believe in the One whom God sent, that is His Son but is, too, the One who sent His Son, who is the Holy Spirit seed, who became, for you and me, a baby boy, born in a manger, then, named Jesus, then named the 'King of the Jews,' (mockingly) and then named Lord of Lords and King of Kings !!! Glory ! Halelujah !!! Amen.

while I agree. it does have problems.

if the future goes like many believe,, people will think they are saved by law in that time of tribulation.. this just is not so.. this would lead people to hell..

it has always been grace by faith, always will till the end.

 

[cfultz3]

lol it was me who voted duel. I was messing around

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol it was me who voted duel. I was messing around

In the most accurate baptist pastor voice he can conjure up!!

"Fire and brimstone will befall you you sinner, repent!! or else!!"

 

[loveme1]

There is no dual Covenant.

The Old was given to bring the New..

Galatians 3

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise

The Messiah came and will return as written.

John 5

37And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there isone that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Exodus 34

And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. 2And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount. 3And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount. 4And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone. 5And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. 8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. 9And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

So He did come among them.


I consider this would be part of the deception where they will attempt to "fulfill" what and how they believe it should be....

A war will come to pass and he that leads them to victory over their enemies will be "exalted".....

The forming of Israel is all part of them attempting to take what they believe is their right.

Some will not realize they are deceived into spreading things that will support the deception.

 

[tribesman]

...Jews are and have been special in God’s eyes, with special blessings. Paul explains that to us in several chapters of Romans. We are to simply let God take care of their destiny, we are told, and God is taking care of it. Our part is to respect them as special.

Where do you find such an idea in scripture? They need to hear the gospel and repent and believe just as everybody else.

 

[loveme1]

Revelation 3

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Whosoever shall confess with their mouth and believe in their heart the same shall be saved. There is neither Jew nor Gentile for we have been grafted in. John the Baptist told the pharisee's, Matthew 3:9and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God isable to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

 

[mark54]

Does fulfilled mean over and out? or what???

In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.[SUP][a][/SUP]
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine
that they might drink. [SUP]4 [/SUP]“Now what have you against me, O Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For you took my silver and my gold and carried off my finest treasures to your temples. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, that you might send them far from their homeland.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“See, I am going to rouse them out of the places to which you sold them, and I will return on your own heads what you have done. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, a nation far away.” The Lord has spoken.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare for war!
Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Beat your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say,
“I am strong!”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Come quickly, all you nations from every side,
and assemble there.

Bring down your warriors, O Lord!

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Swing the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness!”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Multitudes, multitudes
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and moon will be darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Lord will roar from Zion
and thunder from Jerusalem;
the earth and the sky will tremble.
But the Lord will be a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Blessings for God’s People

[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Then you will know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy hill.
Jerusalem will be holy;
never again will foreigners invade her.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“In that day the mountains will drip new wine,
and the hills will flow with milk;
all the ravines of Judah will run with water.
A fountain will flow out of the Lord’s house
and will water the valley of acacias.[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But Egypt will be desolate,
Edom a desert waste,
because of violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they shed innocent blood.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Judah will be inhabited forever
and Jerusalem through all generations.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Their bloodguilt, which I have not pardoned,
I will pardon.”
Joel 3

Didn't you know, its all been fulfilled already, the lot

Not sure when it all happened, but the scholar and theologian will tell us

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Mark 54 I think I like you. I"m still on the fence, but leaning

 

[mark54]

Mark 54 I think I like you. I"m still on the fence, but leaning

......

 

[tdrew777]

The gospel, as preached by Moses in the crushing of the head of the serpent and the sacrifice of the spotless lamb, IS the gospel of salvation preached by Isaiah and the prophets, IS the gospel of Galatians 1. There are several covenants, but one gospel. "The scriptures" in Luke 24:45, refers only to the Old Testament.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures; 46 and he said unto them, Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day;

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no dual Covenant.

The Old was given to bring the New..

Galatians 3





The Messiah came and will return as written.

John 5



Exodus 34



So He did come among them.


I consider this would be part of the deception where they will attempt to "fulfill" what and how they believe it should be....

A war will come to pass and he that leads them to victory over their enemies will be "exalted".....

The forming of Israel is all part of them attempting to take what they believe is their right.

Some will not realize they are deceived into spreading things that will support the deception.

lol. There will be no peace in Isreal (i do not know why people think there can be) Until or IF they repent and receive Christ..I do not understand why people are so up in arms over this..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.[SUP][a][/SUP]
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine
that they might drink. [SUP]4 [/SUP]“Now what have you against me, O Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For you took my silver and my gold and carried off my finest treasures to your temples. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, that you might send them far from their homeland.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“See, I am going to rouse them out of the places to which you sold them, and I will return on your own heads what you have done. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, a nation far away.” The Lord has spoken.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare for war!
Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Beat your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say,
“I am strong!”
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Come quickly, all you nations from every side,
and assemble there.

Bring down your warriors, O Lord!

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Swing the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Come, trample the grapes,
for the winepress is full
and the vats overflow—
so great is their wickedness!”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Multitudes, multitudes
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and moon will be darkened,
and the stars no longer shine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Lord will roar from Zion
and thunder from Jerusalem;
the earth and the sky will tremble.
But the Lord will be a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Blessings for God’s People

[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Then you will know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy hill.
Jerusalem will be holy;
never again will foreigners invade her.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“In that day the mountains will drip new wine,
and the hills will flow with milk;
all the ravines of Judah will run with water.
A fountain will flow out of the Lord’s house
and will water the valley of acacias.[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But Egypt will be desolate,
Edom a desert waste,
because of violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they shed innocent blood.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Judah will be inhabited forever
and Jerusalem through all generations.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Their bloodguilt, which I have not pardoned,
I will pardon.”
Joel 3

Didn't you know, its all been fulfilled already, the lot

Not sure when it all happened, but the scholar and theologian will tell us

lol.. It was symbolically fulfilled. It was never meant to be interpreted literally. don;t you know??

 

[loveme1]

lol. There will be no peace in Isreal (i do not know why people think there can be) Until or IF they repent and receive Christ..I do not understand why people are so up in arms over this..

Consider their "enemy" islam is defeated in a war and then they all find common good to bring "peace and safety" to the world....






1 Thessalonians 5

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, asdo others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.