Dual Covenant Theology

[Abiding]

well if I was saying something about zone which was not true.. yes
If I was saying Zone believed something she did not believe,,yes
if I condemned ZOne to hell or say she was teaching a different gospel.. yess.

But I think the whole chatroom has seen this.

That is all I was griping about

hmmmmm i read some false accusations and they wernt said by her the ones
im remembering.

 

[zone]

i am purposely using Wikipedia, so that the leaven (dialectic) surrounding this issue can be clearly seen.

everything in this Wikipedia article is stuff you have presumably already come across.

the question is:

is Dual Covenant Theology TRUE OR FALSE?



Dual-covenant theology

Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the Law of Moses has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."....

Criticism of Dual-Covenant Theology

A major theme of Paul's Epistle to the Romans is that, so far as salvation is concerned, Jews and Gentiles are equal before God (2:7-12; 3:9-31; 4:9-12; 5:12,17-19; 9:24; 10:12-13; 11:30-32). Romans 1:16, by stating that the Gospel is the same for Jew and Gentile, presents a serious problem for Dual-covenant theology.[10] However, the relationship of Paul of Tarsus and Judaism is still a subject of scholarly debate.

Galatians 5:3 is sometimes cited as a verse supporting Dual-covenant theology. A problem with this argument, however, is the context of Galatians 5.[11] Galatians 5:4[12] in particular, says, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Line this up with Galatians 2,[13] Galatians 2:21[14] in particular, which says “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Scholars still debate the meaning of the Pauline phrase "Works of the Law" (see New Perspective on Paul and Federal Vision).

A similar challenge is presented by Galatians 2:15[15] and 16,[16] just after the Incident at Antioch, in which Paul says (speaking to Peter, a fellow Jew), “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified."

The same exclusive claims for the Christian message are also made by other writers. John 14:6[17] states, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'" Peter, speaking to fellow Jews about Jesus in Acts 4:12,[18] says: "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

The First Epistle of John states, "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."[19] This does not differentiate between Jews or Gentiles.

Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click MORE

RESTART OP....

 

[mark54]

don't care.
arianism is your problem, not mine.

if you are worshipping a created entity, you are an idolator.

There you go again.

Its all head theology isn't it. But as to your point in 30 years of going to church, that subject has never even been preached from, amy pulpit I have heard a sermon from. You really have no clue do you as to what really matters, to you it is all about head doctrine, that's it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

youll have to show me that someday. my nkjv says nothing like (a physical temple)

1. look at jewish tradition. What would they consider an abomination which makes desolate
2. Jesus said when you see it.. One can not see a spiritual temple..
3. Daniel was given the prophesy, we should interpret it as he would have interpreted it.. he knew exactly what gabriel meant, and he never would have thought of a spiritual temple in this prophesy.
4. You can not defile a spiritual temple of God by placing an item which defiles it in the holy place.

 

[Abiding]

There you go again

See Zone, I have been to Trinitarian churches for 30 years, I have never once met anyone who wants to study like you do. And guess what, they see things far more from the proper perspective, you cannot see from the spiritual reality, of that I am sure, only the academic mind according to your misplaced doctrine

It is pure head theology Zone, and the more I read of your posts, the more convinced I am that is true
For you keep in effect saying(which you do) there is no place in Chrisitainity for a person who stands on the biblical requirement unto salvation
It is so plain ridiculous what you and a few others come out with, it really is, but you cannot see the spiritual realitty for your head is swimming with all those ologies and isms.
No wonder people like you ARE NOT REfLECtIVE of the average person in church
Tell me, just how many people in churches do you believe have heard of the ontological/econimic Trinity, and that's only for starters

Mark is the trinity a false doctrine? Is it a heresy? if not why is it your career to deal with it like you do
and at the same time whine about not being accepted? Why not move on?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hmmmmm i read some false accusations and they wernt said by her the ones
im remembering.

So you did not see her say I believe we are to sell arms and give money to jews and give them their land at all cost?
I believe we should kill all palestinians (ethnic cleansing)
I believe the gospel is different for jews than for us
I believe God will restor Isreal to their land in sin
Ibelief........(etc etc etc

Did I misread her?

 

[zone]

Mark is the trinity a false doctrine? Is it a heresy? if not why is it your career to deal with it like you do
and at the same time whine about not being accepted? Why not move on?

 

[mark54]

Mark is the trinity a false doctrine? Is it a heresy? if not why is it your career to deal with it like you do
and at the same time whine about not being accepted? Why not move on?

I see you are back to the role you excel at. Well as Zone keeps referring to me being an 'Arian' I think it is only fair I reply.

Asd for calling anything heresy, I leave that up to others. I don't recall ever using the word(I may have done once or twice but dion't recall) Neither have I ever told anyone who claimed to be a Christian they were not one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we should take is Jesus God to another thread. has nothing to do with end times or dual covenant..

 

[zone]

So you did not see her say I believe we are to sell arms and give money to jews and give them their land at all cost?
I believe we should kill all palestinians (ethnic cleansing)
I believe the gospel is different for jews than for us
I believe God will restor Isreal to their land in sin
Ibelief........(etc etc etc

Did I misread her?

EG, if you persist, i'll get your own words.
stop it.
make an adjustment.
you're wrong.

 

[zone]

I see you are back to the role you excel at. Well as Zone keeps referring to me being an 'Arian' I think it is only fair I reply.

Asd for calling anything heresy, I leave that up to others. I don't recall ever using the word(I may have done once or twice but dion't recall) Neither have I ever told anyone who claimed to be a Christian they were not one.

Mark, i request you stop posting in this thread....about off topic issues.
this is the 4th time, and i ask you to stop, even if people post to you.

you're derailing the topic, which is against the rules.


second thought....hmm...

 

[Abiding]

1. look at jewish tradition. What would they consider an abomination which makes desolate
2. Jesus said when you see it.. One can not see a spiritual temple..
3. Daniel was given the prophesy, we should interpret it as he would have interpreted it.. he knew exactly what gabriel meant, and he never would have thought of a spiritual temple in this prophesy.
4. You can not defile a spiritual temple of God by placing an item which defiles it in the holy place.

Your mixing 70ad predictions with the work of His death/ressurection/ascension

what daniel knew about what it meant is just your assertion. the NT said both the prophets and angels didnt understand

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your mixing 70ad predictions with the work of His death/ressurection/ascension

what daniel knew about what it meant is just your assertion. the NT said both the prophets and angels didnt understand

Daniel 9 is concerning ad 70 predictions as well as other events.. so why would it not be used in context?

It is some peoples belief it concerns the salvation of all people. But daniel was not praying for this,, so why would gabriel answer a pray which was not prayed?

Gabriels told daniel. God heard your prayer, and sent me to answer.

The context of dan 9 is completely daniels prayer, not my salvation or yours.

 

[mark54]

Mark, i request you stop posting in this thread....about off topic issues.
this is the 4th time, and i ask you to stop, even if people post to you.

you're derailing the topic, which is against the rules.


second thought....hmm...

I am happy to accede to your request, but am not sure how you contionually calling me an Arian fits into the subject matter either, if you are going to go off topic, please don't blame others when they follow suit

 

[Abiding]

So you did not see her say I believe we are to sell arms and give money to jews and give them their land at all cost?
I believe we should kill all palestinians (ethnic cleansing)
I believe the gospel is different for jews than for us
I believe God will restor Isreal to their land in sin
Ibelief........(etc etc etc

Did I misread her?

Yes you misread her... i know its ironic. but ive learned zonisms.
Its called guilt by association. Like you admitted when it gets hot
well you know about adrenaline and such.

Heres a truth from the Holyspirit

If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

remember that was said to believers

 

[Abiding]

I see you are back to the role you excel at. Well as Zone keeps referring to me being an 'Arian' I think it is only fair I reply.

Asd for calling anything heresy, I leave that up to others. I don't recall ever using the word(I may have done once or twice but dion't recall) Neither have I ever told anyone who claimed to be a Christian they were not one.

Mark please why cant you be a nice guy and just answer a sincere question. Is trinity a heresy?
It either is or its not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes you misread her... i know its ironic. but ive learned zonisms.
Its called guilt by association. Like you admitted when it gets hot
well you know about adrenaline and such.

Heres a truth from the Holyspirit

If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

remember that was said to believers

You have got to be joking?

No I did not misunderstand her at all..

She did say I teach a different gospel
She did say I wished to send Isreal money and weapons to kill people
She did say I believed in ethnic cleansing

And I misunderstood her? wow my friend.. I am dissapointed in you.

 

[mark54]

Mark please why cant you be a nice guy and just answer a sincere question. Is trinity a heresy?
It either is or its not.

Well Zone asked me to leave the debate, if the subject went off topic, now you want me to answer a question off topic I can't win
Go to the Trinity thread and I'll answer it as per Zone's request
Oh
Will you do me the courtesy of answering a question of mine afterwards, or is that hoping for too much?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

remember that was said to believers

True.. which is why I am done responding to her. Unless she opens another thread. in which I will still share my view.. which I always do

 

[Abiding]

Daniel 9 is concerning ad 70 predictions as well as other events.. so why would it not be used in context?

It is some peoples belief it concerns the salvation of all people. But daniel was not praying for this,, so why would gabriel answer a pray which was not prayed?

Gabriels told daniel. God heard your prayer, and sent me to answer.

The context of dan 9 is completely daniels prayer, not my salvation or yours.

Thats another assertion that isnt told there. Of coarse i understand that it was a prophecy
concerning the rest of Israels history and redemption. But in it would be also the prophecies
of the gentiles(hidden). Im not saying 70ad isnt in the context it is...the last part of verse 27

But is this part of this thread?