Must Shortly Come To Pass

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, Give me scripture of this prophesy, please my love

how many do you want?

I will just post one, and show how it could not have been fulfilled yet.

Ez 37:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. [SUP]23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. [SUP]27 [/SUP]My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]28 [/SUP]The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”


many want to make this the return from babylon. But it can not be. for all the reasons I highlighted.

1. They did not return with one king over them/. they had many kings over them, in fact the king of media and persia was over them at the time, then th ekings of Greece, then the kings of rome, until they finally were taken
away in 70 AD.

2. Never divided again. in 70 ad they were scattered all over the known world.. divided many times over. Not to mention. they were still divided, Jerusalem had its temple, and samaria had its house. and a jew did not consider a sameritan (Northern Kingdom) as even part of the covenant.

3. They shall NEVER defile themselves with idols. or detestable things. again. Nor will they continue in their many transgressions. isreal when they returned continued with idol worship. they brought many back with them from babylon. They also continued to defile God and his ways and continued in their many transgressions. This says never, thus has never happened as of yet.

4. can not be future new jerusalem. The fathers never lived or had that land. it has to be literal canaan.

5. Also can not be future after our ressurection. the women are still having children.

6. Can't be the church., because it says the nations (gentiles) will know God has established and never broke his covenant with Israel.

7. again, one king, who will rule forever. Must be Christ. and must be literal. not symbolic. and could NOT have been the return from babylon, as many say.

I can get more later when I have more time.

 

[zone]

One thing that I have learned through covenant theology is that the covenant of Christ is a covenant of Grace. Because of this, I don't believe God destroys nations. I believe He allows them to destroy themselves. And America is doing a great job at her own destruction.

hi TomL...so if this earth carries on forever, we have an eternity of nations rising and falling, etc. the implications for this are quite something.

Jesus never comes back here, ever....okay.....so people are born here and the Gospel continues being preached for all eternity in this parallel existence...and...what?

the redeemed go to the to actual heaven, where Jesus is....and this continues through eternity, never to end?

 

[TomL]

i see.
alright with no Second Advent.

concerning this earth being here eternally....
so when will the curse be removed? will it?

and where do the redeemed eventually go? do they actually see the Jesus from scripture?
is there another heaven and earth? or is that figurative? do you have two parallel existences for eternity?
or is this one renewed at some point? what would be the point in that?

do you have the documentation on any of that?
ty

Forgive me, young lady, but I don't understand your questions.

 

[Elizabeth619]

One thing that I have learned through covenant theology is that the covenant of Christ is a covenant of Grace. Because of this, I don't believe God destroys nations. I believe He allows them to destroy themselves. And America is doing a great job at her own destruction.

Very true,
I can see it now. America falls and God will be all like..."YALL SHOULD HAVE KEPT ME! I COULD HAVE PROTECTD YOU, BUT YOU DIDNT WANT ME. YOU DIDNT BELIEVE IN ME....NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENED"

 

[Abiding]

OK then, you will have a problem proving Jesus returned before 70 AD. According to Revelation 1:7 when Jesus returns every eye will see Him.

Not a problem at all:

There is an interpretation that says "coming in the clouds" is judgement language which holds up
in the old testament in judgement prophecies. Meaning a reference to 70ad.
The rest of the passage had already been fulfilled.

36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"37 and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."

So Revelation is talking to basically the same group in a "what must come shortly" context.
And goes along with Mtt 24 "this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled"
And the larger prophecy is found in Dan 7:13 and Zech 12:10

 

[Elizabeth619]

Very true,
I can see it now. America falls and God will be all like..."YALL SHOULD HAVE KEPT ME! I COULD HAVE PROTECTD YOU, BUT YOU DIDNT WANT ME. YOU DIDNT BELIEVE IN ME....NOW LOOK WHAT HAPPENED"

Tom, another thing. Didn't God allow Babylon to destroy Judah because of their sins?
I understand that you don't believe God destroys nations anymore, but it was a result of the sin of Judah that caused Babylon to invade them. God cannot be in the presence of sin.
America was once thought to be One Nation Under God, and now we are under an Obamanation. All I am saying is we will fall because of our own sins.

 

[zone]

Do I believe in a future return of Christ? No.

Ecclesiastes 1.4 states that a generation comes, a generation goes, but the earth lasts forever.

In Genesis 8.21 it is written, "And Jehovah smelled the sweet savor; and Jehovah said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake, for that imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done." - ASV

I think this establishes that the earth an all it's inhabitants shall be around forever.

i see.
alright with no Second Advent.

...........................

concerning this earth being here eternally....
so when will the curse be removed? will it? has it been already?

and where do the redeemed eventually go?
do they actually see the Jesus from scripture?
is there another heaven and earth?
or is that figurative?
do you have two parallel existences for all eternity?

hi TomL...so if this earth carries on forever, we have an eternity of nations rising and falling, etc.

the implications for this are quite something.

Jesus never comes back here, ever....okay.....so people are born here and the Gospel continues being preached for all eternity in this parallel existence...and...what?

the redeemed go to the actual heaven, where Jesus is....and this parallel existence scenario continues through eternity, never to end?

reposted (with minor changes)
edit: added post

 

[Abiding]

Cont..post #105

The Passing, fading Old Covenant ending(consummation) in 70ad. The Church the Everlasting Kingdom.

Dan 7:13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,comingwith the clouds of heaven.He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority,glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him.His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Zech 12:1010 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

John 19 again 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be ​fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"37 and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced."

 

[TomL]

how many do you want?

I will just post one, and show how it could not have been fulfilled yet.

Ez 37:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. [SUP]23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. [SUP]27 [/SUP]My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]28 [/SUP]The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”’”


many want to make this the return from babylon. But it can not be. for all the reasons I highlighted.

1. They did not return with one king over them/. they had many kings over them, in fact the king of media and persia was over them at the time, then th ekings of Greece, then the kings of rome, until they finally were taken
away in 70 AD.

2. Never divided again. in 70 ad they were scattered all over the known world.. divided many times over. Not to mention. they were still divided, Jerusalem had its temple, and samaria had its house. and a jew did not consider a sameritan (Northern Kingdom) as even part of the covenant.

3. They shall NEVER defile themselves with idols. or detestable things. again. Nor will they continue in their many transgressions. isreal when they returned continued with idol worship. they brought many back with them from babylon. They also continued to defile God and his ways and continued in their many transgressions. This says never, thus has never happened as of yet.

4. can not be future new jerusalem. The fathers never lived or had that land. it has to be literal canaan.

5. Also can not be future after our ressurection. the women are still having children.

6. Can't be the church., because it says the nations (gentiles) will know God has established and never broke his covenant with Israel.

7. again, one king, who will rule forever. Must be Christ. and must be literal. not symbolic. and could NOT have been the return from babylon, as many say.

I can get more later when I have more time.

This happens in Christ. And before you rebuff that. Think about. Who is on the throne of David right now? The throne of David is established forever by Christ. In Christ all, not just Jews are brought together in one place. And Jesus is the great shepherd.

This is nothing new. I've been taught this from little on up. It's actually a traditional doctrine. Does anyone study the old doctrines of the church anymore. Do churches teach anything anymore. Go get a Westminster, or Heidleburg confession of faith. Has anyone ever taught you the historic doctrines of the church? Oh, you might be able to find these things online.

 

[Stephen63]

N. The millennial reign of Christ (20:1-10) (The Bible Knowledge Commentary)
This chapter presents the fact that Christ will reign on earth for a thousand years. If this chapter is taken literally, it is relatively simple to understand what is meant. However, because many Bible interpreters have rejected the idea that there will be a reign of Christ on earth for a thousand years after His second coming, this chapter has been given an unusually large number of diverse interpretations, all designed to eliminate a literal millennial reign. In general there are three viewpoints, each with a number of variations.
The most recent view is what is known as postmillennialism. According to this view the thousand years represent the triumph of the gospel in the period leading up to the second coming of Christ. The return of Christ will follow the Millennium. Usually traced to Daniel Whitby, a controversial writer of the 17th century, this view has been advanced by other prominent scholars in the history of the church including Charles Hodge, A.H. Strong, David Brown, and more recently, Loraine Boettner. Basically it is an optimistic view that Christ will reign spiritually on earth through the work of the church and the preaching of the gospel. This view has largely been discarded in the 20th century, because many anti-Christian movements have prospered and the world has not progressed spiritually.
A second major view is amillennialism, which denies that there is any literal Millennium or reign of Christ on earth. The millennial reign of Christ is reduced to a spiritual reign in the hearts of believers. This reign is either over those on earth who put their trust in Him or over those in heaven. Both the amillennial and postmillennial views must interpret Revelation 20 in a nonliteral sense. Often there is wide difference among amillenarians in their interpretations of various passages in the Book of Revelation. Amillennialism historically had its first important advocate in Augustine who lived in the 4th and 5th centuries. Before Augustine, it is difficult to find one orthodox amillenarian. Modern advocates include such respected 20th-century theologians as Oswald Allis, Louis Berkhof, William Hendriksen, Abraham Kuyper, R.C.H. Lenski, and Gerhardus Vos.
A third form of interpretation is premillennialism, so named because it interprets Revelation 20 as referring to a literal thousand-year reign of Christ following His second coming. As the Second Coming occurs before the Millennium, it is therefore premillennial. Twentieth-century advocates of this position include Lewis Sperry Chafer, Charles L. Feinberg, A.C. Gaebelein, H.A. Ironside, Alva McClain, William Pettingill, Charles C. Ryrie, C.I. Scofield, Wilbur Smith, and Merrill F. Unger. Other premillenarians can be found from the first century on, including Papias, Justin Martyr, and many other early church fathers. Arguments for this position are based on the natural sequence of events in chapter 20 following chapter 19, viewing them as sequential and as stemming from the second coming of Christ. Many passages speak of the second coming of Christ being followed by a reign of righteousness on earth (Pss. 2; 24; 72; 96; Isa. 2; 9:6-7; 11-12; 63:1-6; 65-66; Jer. 23:5-6; 30:8-11; Dan. 2:44; 7:13-14; Hosea 3:4-5; Amos 9:11-15; Micah 4:1-8; Zeph. 3:14-20; Zech. 8:1-8; 14:1-9; Matt. 19:28; 25:31-46; Acts 15:16-18; Rom. 11:25-27; Jude 14-15; Rev. 2:25-28; 19:11-20:6).

FYI.

 

[zone]

This happens in Christ. And before you rebuff that. Think about. Who is on the throne of David right now? The throne of David is established forever by Christ. In Christ all, not just Jews are brought together in one place. And Jesus is the great shepherd.

TomL...forgive me for asking this question.
do you believe in universal salvation?
i haven't seen that in other posts, but must ask it (then dispense with it) based on the above.
apologies in advance.
no offense intended (if it's a no).
ty
zone.

 

[TomL]

Tom, another thing. Didn't God allow Babylon to destroy Judah because of their sins?
I understand that you don't believe God destroys nations anymore, but it was a result of the sin of Judah that caused Babylon to invade them. God cannot be in the presence of sin.
America was once thought to be One Nation Under God, and now we are under an Obamanation. All I am saying is we will fall because of our own sins.

That was under the OC. God raised up Babylon to do what they did.

When it comes to America, I agree. But, I don't believe we are too far gone. With the right President, and the right Congress, America can rebound. However, more and more I see that the States will have to take the bull by the horns and pretty much take control, and stand up to the slave masters In DC.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This happens in Christ. And before you rebuff that. Think about. Who is on the throne of David right now? The throne of David is established forever by Christ. In Christ all, not just Jews are brought together in one place. And Jesus is the great shepherd.

This is nothing new. I've been taught this from little on up. It's actually a traditional doctrine. Does anyone study the old doctrines of the church anymore. Do churches teach anything anymore. Go get a Westminster, or Heidleburg confession of faith. Has anyone ever taught you the historic doctrines of the church? Oh, you might be able to find these things online.

You did not read a thing I said.

read what I said, and counter my points. or don;t say anything at all. Nothing more nuts than someone not rebutting what you said, but just saying your wrong.. I thought this was a bible discussion forum. Not an I am right you are wrong forum,, thus I do not have to show you where you were wrong in your interpretation..

A good way to get people not to listen to you is to continue doing things like this.

I showed why it can't be now in my points. so show me in my points where I supposedly erred.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That was under the OC. God raised up Babylon to do what they did.

When it comes to America, I agree. But, I don't believe we are too far gone. With the right President, and the right Congress, America can rebound. However, more and more I see that the States will have to take the bull by the horns and pretty much take control, and stand up to the slave masters In DC.

America is going to do what happened to Rome, we are divided, thus we cannot stand. When we fall, the worlds economy is going to collapse, because the world got rich of our greed, and have tied their own economies to ours. this is going to cause a major worldwide collapse. and either anarchy and complete loss of control, or set up the ability for a world leader to come in and offer peace and safety and financial stability.. (hint hint)

 

[TomL]

Zone,

1. I don't use terms like "Second Advent." What do you mean?

2. What curse are you taking about?

3. You seemed to answer your own question about the redeemed.

4. There is a new heaven and earth in Christ.

5. Parallel existence?

6. Jesus doesn't have to come back, he's here now.

7. Do you think you can speak in plain non-Vulcan English?

 

[Abiding]

Zone,

1. I don't use terms like "Second Advent." What do you mean?

2. What curse are you taking about?

3. You seemed to answer your own question about the redeemed.

4. There is a new heaven and earth in Christ.

5. Parallel existence?

6. Jesus doesn't have to come back, he's here now.

7. Do you think you can speak in plain non-Vulcan English?

That would be Ms zone to you sir

 

[TomL]

TomL...forgive me for asking this question.
do you believe in universal salvation?
i haven't seen that in other posts, but must ask it (then dispense with it) based on the above.
apologies in advance.
no offense intended (if it's a no).
ty
zone.

Universal salvation? No.

 

[zone]

Zone,

1. I don't use terms like "Second Advent." What do you mean?

2. What curse are you taking about?

3. You seemed to answer your own question about the redeemed.

4. There is a new heaven and earth in Christ.

5. Parallel existence?

6. Jesus doesn't have to come back, he's here now.

7. Do you think you can speak in plain non-Vulcan English?

never mind.
that's alright thanks.

 

[Stephen63]

That was under the OC. God raised up Babylon to do what they did.

When it comes to America, I agree. But, I don't believe we are too far gone. With the right President, and the right Congress, America can rebound. However, more and more I see that the States will have to take the bull by the horns and pretty much take control, and stand up to the slave masters In DC.

Sorry to say my friend, there are those on the Internet that believe in UFOs that know more about true current events of the US than you do. Nations all over are falling into absolute corruption due to the secret influence of the rich. This isn't odd teaching. It falls right in line with Scripture, setting the scene for a universal religious and political power. For the US and other nations to give up their sovereignty to such a leader, the scene has to be set. This must come to pass.

 

[TomL]

Sorry to say my friend, there are those on the Internet that believe in UFOs that know more about true current events of the US than you do. Nations all over are falling into absolute corruption due to the secret influence of the rich. This isn't odd teaching. It falls right in line with Scripture, setting the scene for a universal religious and political power. For the US and other nations to give up their sovereignty to such a leader, the scene has to be set. This must come to pass.

Well if I don't know what I'm talking about, I guess I'll shut-up.