What does "limited atonement" mean?
- Thread starter Elin
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J
If God only loved one person, it would still be unconditional. His love for that person would not be based on anything that person does, or has to offer.
Also, what do you think of this verse?
Hoseah 9:15
"Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their
sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all
their leaders are rebellious.
Also, what do you think of this verse?
Hoseah 9:15
"Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their
sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all
their leaders are rebellious.
T
GOd did give a chance to all. That's just it! The offer of the atonement is universal. The non-elect make their decisions with all the cards on the table. God does not force their wicked freedom of choice in any way. They have everything they need to accept Jesus - but they do not. God bears moral responsibility for creating men exactly the way He created them. God is the judge who, in eternity, decides who is saved and who is damned. Up to this point everyone in this thread is in agreement.
An ominiscient God knew what he was doing at creation - history does not surprise Him. In fact, he is simultaneously present throughout history; not waiting for us to get to the end - He is already standing there - now - just as before Abraham existed He is. The damned are not damned in time, they are damned in eternity. Eternity is not sequenced the same way time is. How can you say that God, in eternity, did not know what would happen when he created? Scripture states plainly that he sees the end from the beginning. What makes you think God needs to wait until a thing is manifested in time to know it? Knowing an event does not force an event. Knowing an event does help you plan. What scriptures indicate that God is changing, growing in knowledge, learning from human history? History unfolded before God in an instant, when He planned the creation. He is not waiting thousands of years to learn how it turns out.
Are there any scriptures that make a distinction between eternity past and eternity future? Past and future temporal references, do they have any meaning when speaking of eternity?
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. 57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. 59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
James 1:16 Be not deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
An ominiscient God knew what he was doing at creation - history does not surprise Him. In fact, he is simultaneously present throughout history; not waiting for us to get to the end - He is already standing there - now - just as before Abraham existed He is. The damned are not damned in time, they are damned in eternity. Eternity is not sequenced the same way time is. How can you say that God, in eternity, did not know what would happen when he created? Scripture states plainly that he sees the end from the beginning. What makes you think God needs to wait until a thing is manifested in time to know it? Knowing an event does not force an event. Knowing an event does help you plan. What scriptures indicate that God is changing, growing in knowledge, learning from human history? History unfolded before God in an instant, when He planned the creation. He is not waiting thousands of years to learn how it turns out.
Are there any scriptures that make a distinction between eternity past and eternity future? Past and future temporal references, do they have any meaning when speaking of eternity?
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. 57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. 59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
James 1:16 Be not deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: 5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1
Romans 9
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”[SUP]20 [/SUP]But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”[SUP]20 [/SUP]But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
J