Israel or Palestine?

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P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#1
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians assigned the name to the land that is Israel. That name is also confirmed in the Gospel.

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say to you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man shall have come.

The Old Testament uses the name "Palestine" to refer to a small area of southwestern coast within Israel, that had been occupied by a people called the Philistines, but the Philistines vanished thousands of years ago. The New Testament never uses the term Palestine. So how did the land that God named Israel, come to be known by some folks in the world today, by a different name?

Thomas S. McCall, Th.D. of Zola Levitt's ministry wrote:

"One of the guides we use in our tours to Israel is Zvi Rivai, an Israeli Messianic believer, who has done considerable research on this subject. Zvi informs us that before 135 A.D., the Romans used the terms Judea and Galilee to refer to the Land of Israel. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., the Roman government struck a coin with the phrase “Judea Capta,” meaning Judea has been captured. The term Palestine was never used in the early Roman designations.

It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 A.D. under Bar Kochba that Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel. Hadrian, like many dictators since his time realized the propaganda power of terms and symbols. He replaced the shrines of the Jewish Temple and the Sepulchre of Christ in Jerusalem with temples to pagan deities. He changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitalina, and changed the name of Israel and Judea to Palestine. Hadrian’s selection of Palestine was purposeful, not accidental. He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory. Thus, the term Palestine as applied to the Land of Israel was invented by the inveterate enemy of the Bible and the Jewish people, Emperor Hadrian."

So assigning of the name "Palestine" to Israel was done by a Godless 2nd century Roman ruler in an effort to insult Jews and erase Israel.

The British government may also shoulder much of the responsibility for popularization of the term in the 20th century, as well as the resulting problems that resulted from their meddling in the area. From "THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?"
Think-Israel

"Before the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Muslim Arabs in the Holy Land. In 1695 there was not a single Muslim Arab in Gaza, Nazareth, and Um-El-Phachem. All Arabs there were Christians. By contrast, the Jews, despite 2000 years of persecution and forced conversions by various conquerors, have throughout most of history been the majority population in the Holy Land. In Jerusalem Jews were always the largest demographic group [1][2], except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning."



Even more recently, as Walid Shoebat put voice to perhaps millions of so-called "Palestinians" in the world today, that dropped their national identity to proclaim themselves "Palestinians":
"One day during the 1960s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim."

It isn't hard to imagine that the enemy of God, put the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinians" as popularized in the the world today, not only on the lips of a Godless Roman governor, but in the largely Godless secular media, the U.N. and such today, in order to obscure the true identities of Israeli citizens, which has served to advance the Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to the followers of the false prophet Muhammad.

Based on the false impression that the popular media has created, a picture has been painted of basically two groups in conflict in Israel today. Israeli Jews VS so-called Palestinians.
Perhaps the group that has been most disenfranchised, as a result of this false impression, is Israeli non-Muslim Arabs. Here's a Wikipedia article on secular Israeli Arabs:

Wikipedia on secular Israeli Arabs: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"

When the media and the U.N. pressed the Israelis to abandon Gaza, and end the protections formerly offered by the Israeli Jewish State as enjoyed by Israeli citizens there, in exchange for yet another ridiculous and false promises of peace (since Muhammad's followers are commanded to subjugate all people in the world to themselves), it wouldn't have required rocket science to calculate the expected result of a "democracy" in which the vast majority of voters are followers of the false prophet Muhammad:

"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law

"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians

And of course entire industries like the Gush Katif greenhouses in Gaza - that Jews had developed along with the rest of Gaza from relatively nothing over the last half of the 20th century - that had provided 3500 high tec greenhouse jobs, producing a hundred and fifty million dollars worth of produce a year, were ransacked, looted and gutted and by the so-called "Palestinians", when they took control of Gaza. Thus today those 3500 jobs have been reduced to about 500 people scratching in the dirt as farm workers. This, while "Palestinians" largely sit around and wait for delivery of western welfare. But what happens to money that naive westerners send for "relief" to the so-called Palestinians? It finances terrorism.

"Finally, a Palestinian 'Charity' Tells The Truth" By Debbie Schlussel
"A Gaza charity headed by the interior minister of Hamas yesterday offered $1.4 million to any Arab citizen of Israel who abducts an Israeli soldier."

When we use the name that God assigned to the land, and apply it to the major groups in Israel today, rather than the false impression created by those of the world that reject that name, we find clarity. The perpetrators of the violence being Israeli Muslims VS Israeli Jews, Israeli Christians and Israeli non-Muslim Arabs, who are overwhelmingly in favor of the protection of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State. A country where Muslims also enjoy more freedom, than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth.

What Christian would want to suffer the dhimmitude of an Islamic state that Christians are only beginning to suffer in Gaza? What non-Muslim of any persuasion, would want to be subjected to the dhimmitude of a sharia law ruled, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising (FGM or female genital mutilation), slave making and trading, Christian and Jews persecuting, church and synagogue burning, imperialistic conquering, Islamic slave state?

A member of this forum that apparently self-propagandizes with antichrist Islamic propaganda, balked at the above characterization in regard FGM. Indeed my initial youtube introduction to this barbaric practice, as well as the testimony of the author of "Infidel" from Somalia, had me laboring under the impression that the practice was limited to the backwaters of African villages. I later learned that a near unanimity of young Muslim women - in what the first half of the 20th century had been a very cosmopolitan Egypt - today suffer:

"In Egypt, at least 90 percent of women are believed to have undergone FGM [female genital mutilation]. In 2005, a report by UNICEF had claimed that 97 percent of Egyptian women aged 15-49 had undergone the operation. Here, the issue has been a source of controversy. A CNN broadcast from 1994, in which a 10-year-old girl in Egypt was shown being "operated upon" by an unskilled practitioner, caused a hostile reaction. Egypt sued CNN for $500 million for damaging its reputation, but the case was thrown out by courts.""

The Imam in the following video aptly illustrates, exactly how much Islamic hatred of Jews actually has to do with Israel:

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

[video=youtube;XBnciAZDoL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4[/video]

The same as the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem working hand in hand with Hitler, including an Islamic panzer division in Hitler's army, toward their mutual interest of genocide of Jews.



It should be no surprise that the name "Palestine" is used by 1/4 of mankind of the world today, that are compelled by THE false prophet Muhammad, to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel:

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

As for me, as member of the whole household of God in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, I'll continue to use the name that my great God YHWH assigned to the land of Israel in the Old Testament scriptures, as confirmed by the New Testament scriptures.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

doulos

Guest
#2
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians assigned the name to the land that is Israel. That name is also confirmed in the Gospel.

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say to you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man shall have come.

The Old Testament uses the name "Palestine" to refer to a small area of southwestern coast within Israel, that had been occupied by a people called the Philistines, but the Philistines vanished thousands of years ago. The New Testament never uses the term Palestine. So how did the land that God named Israel, come to be known by some folks in the world today, by a different name?

Thomas S. McCall, Th.D. of Zola Levitt's ministry wrote:

"One of the guides we use in our tours to Israel is Zvi Rivai, an Israeli Messianic believer, who has done considerable research on this subject. Zvi informs us that before 135 A.D., the Romans used the terms Judea and Galilee to refer to the Land of Israel. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., the Roman government struck a coin with the phrase “Judea Capta,” meaning Judea has been captured. The term Palestine was never used in the early Roman designations.

It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 A.D. under Bar Kochba that Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel. Hadrian, like many dictators since his time realized the propaganda power of terms and symbols. He replaced the shrines of the Jewish Temple and the Sepulchre of Christ in Jerusalem with temples to pagan deities. He changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitalina, and changed the name of Israel and Judea to Palestine. Hadrian’s selection of Palestine was purposeful, not accidental. He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory. Thus, the term Palestine as applied to the Land of Israel was invented by the inveterate enemy of the Bible and the Jewish people, Emperor Hadrian."

So assigning of the name "Palestine" to Israel was done by a Godless 2nd century Roman ruler in an effort to insult Jews and erase Israel.

The British government may also shoulder much of the responsibility for popularization of the term in the 20th century, as well as the resulting problems that resulted from their meddling in the area. From "THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?"
Think-Israel

"Before the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Muslim Arabs in the Holy Land. In 1695 there was not a single Muslim Arab in Gaza, Nazareth, and Um-El-Phachem. All Arabs there were Christians. By contrast, the Jews, despite 2000 years of persecution and forced conversions by various conquerors, have throughout most of history been the majority population in the Holy Land. In Jerusalem Jews were always the largest demographic group [1][2], except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning."



Even more recently, as Walid Shoebat put voice to perhaps millions of so-called "Palestinians" in the world today, that dropped their national identity to proclaim themselves "Palestinians":
"One day during the 1960s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim."

It isn't hard to imagine that the enemy of God, put the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinians" as popularized in the the world today, not only on the lips of a Godless Roman governor, but in the largely Godless secular media, the U.N. and such today, in order to obscure the true identities of Israeli citizens, which has served to advance the Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to the followers of the false prophet Muhammad.

Based on the false impression that the popular media has created, a picture has been painted of basically two groups in conflict in Israel today. Israeli Jews VS so-called Palestinians.
Perhaps the group that has been most disenfranchised, as a result of this false impression, is Israeli non-Muslim Arabs. Here's a Wikipedia article on secular Israeli Arabs:

Wikipedia on secular Israeli Arabs: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"

When the media and the U.N. pressed the Israelis to abandon Gaza, and end the protections formerly offered by the Israeli Jewish State as enjoyed by Israeli citizens there, in exchange for yet another ridiculous and false promises of peace (since Muhammad's followers are commanded to subjugate all people in the world to themselves), it wouldn't have required rocket science to calculate the expected result of a "democracy" in which the vast majority of voters are followers of the false prophet Muhammad:

"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law

"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians

And of course entire industries like the Gush Katif greenhouses in Gaza - that Jews had developed along with the rest of Gaza from relatively nothing over the last half of the 20th century - that had provided 3500 high tec greenhouse jobs, producing a hundred and fifty million dollars worth of produce a year, were ransacked, looted and gutted and by the so-called "Palestinians", when they took control of Gaza. Thus today those 3500 jobs have been reduced to about 500 people scratching in the dirt as farm workers. This, while "Palestinians" largely sit around and wait for delivery of western welfare. But what happens to money that naive westerners send for "relief" to the so-called Palestinians? It finances terrorism.

"Finally, a Palestinian 'Charity' Tells The Truth" By Debbie Schlussel
"A Gaza charity headed by the interior minister of Hamas yesterday offered $1.4 million to any Arab citizen of Israel who abducts an Israeli soldier."

When we use the name that God assigned to the land, and apply it to the major groups in Israel today, rather than the false impression created by those of the world that reject that name, we find clarity. The perpetrators of the violence being Israeli Muslims VS Israeli Jews, Israeli Christians and Israeli non-Muslim Arabs, who are overwhelmingly in favor of the protection of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State. A country where Muslims also enjoy more freedom, than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth.

What Christian would want to suffer the dhimmitude of an Islamic state that Christians are only beginning to suffer in Gaza? What non-Muslim of any persuasion, would want to be subjected to the dhimmitude of a sharia law ruled, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising (FGM or female genital mutilation), slave making and trading, Christian and Jews persecuting, church and synagogue burning, imperialistic conquering, Islamic slave state?

A member of this forum that apparently self-propagandizes with antichrist Islamic propaganda, balked at the above characterization in regard FGM. Indeed my initial youtube introduction to this barbaric practice, as well as the testimony of the author of "Infidel" from Somalia, had me laboring under the impression that the practice was limited to the backwaters of African villages. I later learned that a near unanimity of young Muslim women - in what the first half of the 20th century had been a very cosmopolitan Egypt - today suffer:

"In Egypt, at least 90 percent of women are believed to have undergone FGM [female genital mutilation]. In 2005, a report by UNICEF had claimed that 97 percent of Egyptian women aged 15-49 had undergone the operation. Here, the issue has been a source of controversy. A CNN broadcast from 1994, in which a 10-year-old girl in Egypt was shown being "operated upon" by an unskilled practitioner, caused a hostile reaction. Egypt sued CNN for $500 million for damaging its reputation, but the case was thrown out by courts.""

The Imam in the following video aptly illustrates, exactly how much Islamic hatred of Jews actually has to do with Israel:

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

[video=youtube;XBnciAZDoL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4[/video]

The same as the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem working hand in hand with Hitler, including an Islamic panzer division in Hitler's army, toward their mutual interest of genocide of Jews.



It should be no surprise that the name "Palestine" is used by 1/4 of mankind of the world today, that are compelled by THE false prophet Muhammad, to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel:

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

As for me, as member of the whole household of God in the kingdom of Jesus Christ, I'll continue to use the name that my great God YHWH assigned to the land of Israel in the Old Testament scriptures, as confirmed by the New Testament scriptures.

Awesome post brother!!!!
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
#4
What do you say to us should be done regarding this matter?
 
D

doulos

Guest
#5
What do you say to us should be done regarding this matter?
Become educated stand for the truth and stand against those who try to usurp God's authority in their misguided attempt to take Israel from the Jews.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#6
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians assigned the name to the land that is Israel. That name is also confirmed in the Gospel.

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say to you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man shall have come.

The Old Testament uses the name "Palestine" to refer to a small area of southwestern coast within Israel, that had been occupied by a people called the Philistines, but the Philistines vanished thousands of years ago. The New Testament never uses the term Palestine. So how did the land that God named Israel, come to be known by some folks in the world today, by a different name?

Thomas S. McCall, Th.D. of Zola Levitt's ministry wrote:

"One of the guides we use in our tours to Israel is Zvi Rivai, an Israeli Messianic believer, who has done considerable research on this subject. Zvi informs us that before 135 A.D., the Romans used the terms Judea and Galilee to refer to the Land of Israel. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D..............
can we stop right here for a moment.....:)

i have a question of you.

just simple answers for now will do, if possible....this is very interesting.

so far i have seen no Biblical evidence from you that God has any plans whatsoever for Jerusalem that now is (was....in Pauls day when he penned Galatians - maybe we can actually get around to that Book today...up to you)


MY QUESTION -


When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D

whose doing was Titus and the desolation of Jerusalem in 70AD
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#7
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians
hey pete.
going one point at a time here.

does one have to be a Christian (saved by the actual literal Jesus of Nazareth of the Bible) to have any claim to the scriptures or anything else.

said another way - is there One God of Christians who is the same God of unbelieving jews who reject Jesus.

just simple answers if possible.
ty
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#8
Thomas S. McCall, Th.D. of Zola Levitt's ministry wrote:

"One of the guides we use in our tours to Israel is Zvi Rivai, an Israeli Messianic believer, who has done considerable research on this subject.
Essays » Plans for Genuine Peace
by Thomas S. McCall, Th.D.

Dr. Thomas McCall, the Senior Theologian of our ministry, has written many articles for the Levitt Letter. He holds a Th.M. in Old Testament studies and a Th.D. in Semitic languages and Old Testament. He has served as Zola’s co-author, mentor, pastor, and friend for nearly 30 years.

Dr. Thomas McCall, our senior theologian, and I have brainstormed about some alternate peace plans which he outlines below along with a proposed Biblical plan which no one else, to my knowledge, has ever suggested. — Zola

Introduction
There are two prophetic plans that the Scripture predicts for Israel in relation to its enemies. The first is the Satanic plan that will be confirmed with Israel by the Antichrist. This is the infamous treaty that begins the Tribulation after the Rapture of the Church. It will be a seven-year treaty, but will be broken by the Antichrist in the middle of the Tribulation. The second is God’s ultimate plan for Israel, which will be brought about by the Second Coming of Christ. It includes Armageddon, the national redemption of Israel, and the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth for 1,000 years, with Jerusalem as the worldwide capital.

Plans for Genuine Peace - click




do you have any other credible theological sources.

i will keep reading and see if there are any new devices slipped into this mess that will help your case.

(hint - there are not....but i will pretend to take you seriously)

they did get one thing right though:

two plans...one from satan.
guess which one you like.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
Even more recently, as Walid Shoebat
*cough*
k....dealt with him but will again.
fraud.

"Finally, a Palestinian 'Charity' Tells The Truth" By Debbie Schlussel
*cough*

and we want to listen to hater Debbie Schlussel why exactly....see.....
when people lie....some of us are just forced to confront it.

and i get really really sick of this game.

so......lets see who your other source is (another Old Testament Wineskin Jew Preserved unto salvation in Blindness and hatred for Jesus of Nazareth i guess....working to take hold of the everlasting covenant - LAND -ya i guess....saved and chosen):


Debbie Schlussel Gloats Over Norway Killing...The True Face Of Zionism

Ultra-right-wing, Jewish-Zionist blogger, Debbie Schlussel has shown the ugliest side of American neo-Conservatism by saying the terrorist shooting spree at a Norwegian Labour Party youth camp was “karma” for the group’s political opposition to Israeli treatment of Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.




Debbie Schlussel

Noting that a pro-Palestine rally was held at the camp the day before the shooting, Schlussel wrote on July 28 that “these hateful, privileged brats at the camp boycotted Jews and sided with Jew-killers. What goes around comes around. *

You support terrorists against innocent civilians in Israel, then you get attacked by terrorists who are upset with your support.”

Norway has announced it will support a move by the Palestinian Authority at the United Nations to be recognized as an official state, should the matter come up for a vote this September.

“For me, this is like Alien v. Predator,” Schlussel continued. “I’m not sad for either side. And I make no apologies for it.”

While claiming she does not “condone massacres on innocent civilians,” Schlussel wrote, “Now these kids’ families know what it feels like to be victims of the Islamic terrorists whose Judenrein boycotts and terrorist flotillas against Israel they support.

We don’t live in a vacuum. I can’t feel sorry for those who support my would-be assassins. And I don’t get too upset when they face the karma that is their fate.”

Her condoning of the “karmic fate” of the more than 70 massacered reflect the motives given by self-confessed killer, Anders Behring Breivik, who targeted the left-wing youth for their political party’s open-immigration and pro-Muslim policies.
A Christian Zionist, Breivik saw Israel as an ally against his own Crusade against “jihadism.”

Schlussel’s comments were roundly condemned by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), who noted that Schlussel essential said that “while she dislikes the wanton murder of unarmed children, the outcome of wanton murder can be considered righteous.”

The SPLC also notes that after Al Queda founder Osama bin Laden was killed in May, Schlussel called for the genocide of 1.8 billion Muslims, and an epileptic case of Schadenfreude when CBS correspondent Lara Logan was sexually assaulted in Cairo last February.

Source :http://www.therightperspective.org/2011/08/01/debbie-schlussel-gloats-over-norway-killing/ - click





a-a-a-a-anyways......continuing on.....eh.
somebody has to i guess.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
echo...hello?

well, imma take a nap.

maybe someone from the Ellis/Pete/Doulos etc camp could comment on/answer #6, #7 and especially #8:



"Dr. Thomas McCall, the Senior Theologian of our ministry, has written many articles for the Levitt Letter. He holds a Th.M. in Old Testament studies and a Th.D. in Semitic languages and Old Testament. He has served as Zola’s co-author, mentor, pastor, and friend for nearly 30 years.

Dr. Thomas McCall, our senior theologian, and I have brainstormed about some alternate peace plans which he outlines below along with a proposed Biblical plan which no one else, to my knowledge, has ever suggested. — Zola

Introduction

There are two prophetic plans that the Scripture predicts for Israel in relation to its enemies. The first is the Satanic plan that will be confirmed with Israel by the Antichrist. This is the infamous treaty that begins the Tribulation after the Rapture of the Church. It will be a seven-year treaty, but will be broken by the Antichrist in the middle of the Tribulation. The second is God’s ultimate plan for Israel, which will be brought about by the Second Coming of Christ. It includes Armageddon, the national redemption of Israel, and the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth for 1,000 years, with Jerusalem as the worldwide capital."


Plans for Genuine Peace - click


is this your theological platform - any of you?

are you (Pre) Millennial Dispensationalists?



if yes....i laugh....but implore you to prove this system from the Bible.

if no, why are you using this as support for your cause?

(i'll go through the rest of your proposition after you answer some concerns...thx much)











oh...one last thing.

show me where there is:

1) a Dual Covenant system in place

2) a plan for this earthly Jerusalem

from here:


Galatians 4

Sons and Heirs

1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.




Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.




12Brothers,c I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong. 13You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, 14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. 15What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?d 17They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. 18It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, 19my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! 20I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.




Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,




“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”




28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.




is this dissing A-rabs (Ishmael)?
or is it saying unbelieving jews will not inherit, and are in fact the persecutors of Christians?

you have a 50/50 chance of getting this wrong.

ttyl
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
218
63
#11
Become educated stand for the truth and stand against those who try to usurp God's authority in their misguided attempt to take Israel from the Jews.
Know you not that they were only ever defeated in disobedience and disbelief... no one can usurp the Almighty God.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
Become educated stand for the truth and stand against those who try to usurp God's authority in their misguided attempt to take Israel from the Jews.
Educated by who? This could keep you occupied for months if you wanted to debate that.
Tell me where you got your education.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians assigned the name to the land that is Israel. That name is also confirmed in the Gospel.
is the LAND ownership issue (for unbelieving jews or anyone else) confirmed in the New Testament Gospel?
is IT the Gospel?
does it have anything at all to do with the Gospel...prove it from the New Testament).

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say to you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man shall have come.
okay....now can you go get all the passages which speak of Israel as people (not LAND)?
and, could you get all the NT passages which speak of Israel the people as the faithful saved people.
all the passages which speak of JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF being the True Israel.

it is interesting you posted this....look what what was said a few verses before:

Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel
please tell me what this means to you:

Hosea 11:1
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Matthew 2:15
The Flight to Egypt

13Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

The Old Testament uses the name "Palestine" to refer to a small area of southwestern coast within Israel, that had been occupied by a people called the Philistines, but the Philistines vanished thousands of years ago.
then what does it matter?
if the Philistines vanished, and the terrible awful Palestinians are not the terrible awful Philistines, why do you care what that land is called.

particularly when it actually refers to PEOPLE.
and the New Testament says it refers to the Israel of God, the Church - jew and gentile.

so what you care about is that we take away the name God actually called His faithful people (jew and gentile), and use it in referencing a land he left desolate, and people who are not His people (unless they come through the Cross like everyone else).

right?

that's what matters to you?

sure it is...because you are essentially a zionist, and at best involved in a sect of christianity considered a cult by any standard measure of what constitues a cult.


..............


k....so....i know there are quite a few questions in this post, but if you could address them, maybe we can dispense with any confusion we have between our reading of scripture, our understanding of history, who is Israel and what the Gospel is.
 
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peterT

Guest
#14
is the LAND ownership issue (for unbelieving jews or anyone else) confirmed in the New Testament Gospel?
is IT the Gospel?
does it have anything at all to do with the Gospel...prove it from the New Testament).



okay....now can you go get all the passages which speak of Israel as people (not LAND)?
and, could you get all the NT passages which speak of Israel the people as the faithful saved people.
all the passages which speak of JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF being the True Israel.

it is interesting you posted this....look what what was said a few verses before:



please tell me what this means to you:

Hosea 11:1
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.

Matthew 2:15
The Flight to Egypt

13Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”



then what does it matter?
if the Philistines vanished, and the terrible awful Palestinians are not the terrible awful Philistines, why do you care what that land is called.

particularly when it actually refers to PEOPLE.
and the New Testament says it refers to the Israel of God, the Church - jew and gentile.

so what you care about is that we take away the name God actually called His faithful people (jew and gentile), and use it in referencing a land he left desolate, and people who are not His people (unless they come through the Cross like everyone else).

right?

that's what matters to you?

sure it is...because you are essentially a zionist, and at best involved in a sect of christianity considered a cult by any standard measure of what constitues a cult.


..............


k....so....i know there are quite a few questions in this post, but if you could address them, maybe we can dispense with any confusion we have between our reading of scripture, our understanding of history, who is Israel and what the Gospel is.
Hay Zone

It sounds to me like you are mocking the prophets

Like Elijah mocking the 450 prophets of baal. lol

Be careful they don’t stone you
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
The one great God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians assigned the name to the land that is Israel. That name is also confirmed in the Gospel.

.......................

It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 A.D. under Bar Kochba that Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel.
so what?
their Land was desolate by then already.

Ichabod.

maybe you don't know Jesus meant what He said. maybe you don't know who sent Titus.

maybe you never read the Woes and understood the Old Covenant Curses were coming down upon them.

they had rejected the Son of God and those who had not repented suffered the destruction of their city, the loss of their land, the loss of any inheritance, and we know what Josephus says they suffered.

do you think it is a small matter to trample the Son of God underfoot and deny the very Lord Who came to bring them salvation?

do you think God owes anyone anything? like Land?

what did Jesus say?:

Matthew 21
The Parable of the Tenants

33“Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country. 34When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servantsc to the tenants to get his fruit. 35And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them. 37Finally he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.’ 39And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;d
this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”e

Matthew 23
37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”


Hadrian, like many dictators since his time realized the propaganda power of terms and symbols. He replaced the shrines of the Jewish Temple and the Sepulchre of Christ in Jerusalem with temples to pagan deities. He changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitalina, and changed the name of Israel and Judea to Palestine.
if it mattered at all, it mattered concerning Christians who lived there.
any other claim is some other christ.

Hadrian’s selection of Palestine was purposeful, not accidental. He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory. Thus, the term Palestine as applied to the Land of Israel was invented by the inveterate enemy of the Bible and the Jewish people, Emperor Hadrian."
Jesus is The True Israel, His people are the Israel of God, believing jews and gentiles.

you don't care about that....you want war-mongering unbelieving zionists to have the name Israel when it was taken from them. they have no claim to it...not ethnically; not religiously; not Biblically; and not historically.

So assigning of the name "Palestine" to Israel was done by a Godless 2nd century Roman ruler in an effort to insult Jews and erase Israel.
well, that's between unbelieving jews who have taken the name Israel to themselves, and a godless 2nd century roman ruler.

what you propose is that we insult the Spirit of Grace, the Son of God and the Father Almighty by giving something that belongs to Him to people who do not belong to Him.

and you want this because you need to blur the lines of what happened, who God is and what the Bible says.

so i wonder who is insulting the people of God, and God?

you are...and the zionists are. they hate Jesus.

The British government may also shoulder much of the responsibility for popularization of the term in the 20th century, as well as the resulting problems that resulted from their meddling in the area. From "THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?"
Think-Israel THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?

by Dr. Harry Mandelbaum

At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Arabs in the Holy Land. Historically, a "Palestinian" people never existed. The English name "Palestinian", to describe the local Arab population, was invented AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. These Arabs do not even have a native name to describe themselves in their own Arabic language. The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries. There is only one possible solution to the "Palestinians" desire for a homeland - let them return to where they came from - to where they lived earlier for hundreds or thousands of years - to their real homeland in their original Arab countries.

At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Muslim Arabs in the Holy Land. By contrast, the Jews, despite 2000 years of persecution and forced conversions by various conquerors, have throughout most of history been the majority population there. In Jerusalem Jews were always the largest demographic group [1][2], except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning.
Think-Israel < click

"Before the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Muslim Arabs in the Holy Land. In 1695 there was not a single Muslim Arab in Gaza, Nazareth, and Um-El-Phachem. All Arabs there were Christians. By contrast, the Jews, despite 2000 years of persecution and forced conversions by various conquerors, have throughout most of history been the majority population in the Holy Land. In Jerusalem Jews were always the largest demographic group [1][2], except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning."
^ where did this text come from? ^

Dr. Harry Mandelbaum's site? or Ellis Skolfield's site?
why don't they match?

and what's this:

except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning.

who decreed the desolation of Jerusalem and the conquerors who repeatedly threw them out and prevented them from returning?

wasn't it God Himself?

just yes or no will help.

...................

i'll have to come back to this separately:

THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?

by Dr. Harry Mandelbaum

At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Arabs in the Holy Land. Historically, a "Palestinian" people never existed. The English name "Palestinian", to describe the local Arab population, was invented AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. These Arabs do not even have a native name to describe themselves in their own Arabic language. The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries. There is only one possible solution to the "Palestinians" desire for a homeland - let them return to where they came from - to where they lived earlier for hundreds or thousands of years - to their real homeland in their original Arab countries.

Think-Israel < click
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#16
THE ARABS IN THE HOLY LAND - NATIVES OR ALIENS?

by Dr. Harry Mandelbaum

At the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Arabs in the Holy Land. Historically, a "Palestinian" people never existed. The English name "Palestinian", to describe the local Arab population, was invented AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. These Arabs do not even have a native name to describe themselves in their own Arabic language. The Arabs who now claim to be natives of the Holy Land have migrated to Palestine and invaded the land after 1917, from neighboring Arab countries. There is only one possible solution to the "Palestinians" desire for a homeland - let them return to where they came from - to where they lived earlier for hundreds or thousands of years - to their real homeland in their original Arab countries.

Think-Israel < click
i'll get to Dr. Harry Mandelbaum's stuff in another post.
it's here as an example.

................

CONCERNING HISTORY, AND THE REVIEWING AND REVISING OF HISTORICAL RECORDS AND NARRATIVES:

[notwithstanding the Holy Bible]

THESE QUESTIONS ARE OPEN TO EVERYONE...PLEASE GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER

do you know that all legitimate historians are revisionists?

did you know that the continual revising (updating) of historical information (not erasing) is actually the mark of authentic scholars?

that real history needs continual study and revision as new facts and information are learned and brought to light?

did you know that revisionism is a term used as a buzzword, a term of derision for anyone who questions official narratives of any given historical period or event which interested parties have a vested interest in not being examined after an official narrative has been established?

the same NewSpeak devices are used against anyone who dares to question, for example the official narrative of what happened on 9-11.

or what happened in the Kennedy Assassination.

or any number of officially sanctioned and permanently guarded narratives of "history"?

even those which have been proven to be falsified?

the label of derision in this case is conspiracy theorist.

this kind of labelling technique was perfected by TPTB, and anyone who denies this is either not paying attention or just lying, so we won't bother with this word game any longer.

the Revising or Updating, or Scrutinizing or Re-Visting (which is what revising basically means...re-visiting) HISTORY or any other field of human record keeping and study is not only obviously key to legitimacy, the suppression of the Re-Visiting of history (a narrative or event) is the sign that someone has something to hide.

the greater the opposition to the Re-Visiting or Revision of any given Historical Narrative, the closer we are to discovering who might have an interest in a cover-up. and certainly the WHYs then become clear.

is this plain enough?

CONCLUSION:

so, once again: the use of the term Revisionist used as a term of derision, intended to silence questions or concerns will be considered possible defacto evidence that the one deriding examination of historical records and evidence is the one who is trying to cover-up or hide something.

NOTHING should be hidden from scrutiny.

wouldn't you agree?


you desire that we Re-Visit the narrative of the Palestinian question (occupation of the British Mandate Region of Palestine by Arabs who you say came from elsewhere)...this is perfectly legitimate:)

we presumably are all interested in Truth, wherever it leads.
anyone who isn't is suspect. agree?

and if your facts hold up, your historical narrative will tend to be most persuasive, based on a preponderance of evidence.

but we would never desire to permanently establish an official historical narrative that is then not ever supposed to be not subject to REVIEW, would we? why would we?

one reason historical revisionism (re-visiting, review) is important, is because governments classify documents pertaining to certain historical events or periods, and all the facts have not been not available.

when new facts come to light, we REVISIT and REVIEW what we know.

don't we?

if not.....WHY DON'T WE?


so i will not accept, nor be deterred nor intimidated by the use of the term Revisionist used as a term of derision, a weapon intended to silence questioning.

the same may be assumed with the terms antisemitic, replacement theologian, conspiracy theorist, or any other devices used to silence examination of this controversial issue (we will may feel free to use any and all sources, clearly credibility will be determined by the primary sources used, or not used).

please keep this is in mind.
if this is not respected, i will simply go to the next level, and present the source of the NewSpeak terms, and quote the primary sources and their explanations for the invention and use of the terms.

thanks for remembering this, i don't want to repeat it.

.....................


so, i presume the New [Jewish] Israeli Historians are among the Revisionists you are opposed to?

if not them, then which revisionists are you opposed to?

these scholars have revised historical writings and narratives based partially on declassified documents related to the establishment of the State of Israel, and further back in history.

[see: Gelvin, James L. (2007) [2005]. The Israel–Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War (2d ed.). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-88835-6.]


 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#17
I think Waldo's style is post and run Zone.

I don't think he has encountered too many people that actually read through all his copy and pastes and hold him to account for it. :)
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#18
What do you say to us should be done regarding this matter?
The greatest stride could be made if the world would quit pretending that Islam is a religion, and point out to those poor sorely deluded folks, that the followers of Muhammad are exactly that. A cult that follows the false prophet Muhammad alone. A cult not as much indoctrinated into what to believe, like that God would want anybody to prostrate themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, or run back and forth between al-Safa and al-Marwah the way the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did, but far worse than that. The false prophet Muhammad filled his followers with complete resolve to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and DENY the Son of God, and REJECT His shed blood as articles of their faith in Muhammad alone.
For the world to quit pretending that Islam is a religion of peace, which is exactly contrary to the commandments of Muhammad, its 1400 year history, as well as present day reality.

Since the U.N. destroyed the protection of the Jewish State formerly enjoyed by Gaza residents, perhaps the first thing the U.N. should take responsibility for and do, is go in and rescue the satanically abused children of Gaza from their parents. Perhaps the most horrific example of child abuse in the history of mankind. Makes the Nazi youth movement look like a fun loving bunch of kids by comparison.

[video=youtube;l4d9HPw4a_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4d9HPw4a_k[/video]
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#19
Pete do the muslims hate jews or zionists?
Do they hate Americans or our zionists government?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#20
Even more recently, as Walid Shoebat put voice to perhaps millions of so-called "Palestinians" in the world today, that dropped their national identity to proclaim themselves "Palestinians":

"One day during the 1960s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim."
Walid Shoebat

Walid Shoebat to CNN:

I CONFESS

I was laughing my head off while I watched myself on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360. Before the show came on, they aired footage of Hugh Hefner who swims in a pool of money and women; yet we were made out like bandits because our charity reported 1/2 million dollars last year; it was very funny.

CNN wanted me to tell them how our money is spent. All right, CNN, I confess everything:

*
....I Confess: I am not exactly connected to the Mossad, but I pay money to an I.D.F soldier named Mosheh Avraham to maintain our website and keep track of newsworthy stories.

*
I Confess: Mosheh kills terrorists—literally.

*
I Confess: We pay another lady to bombard and harass pastors to get us in the door. At times, we joke that some pastors are like a blood clot that only a lady can move out of the way, allowing us to spread what CAIR calls “Islamophobia.”....





Walid Shoebat

. . . Former Muslim Brotherhood Member Now Peace Activist

Walid Shoebat | Who is Walid? < click





Muslim Brotherhood