Israel or Palestine?

[PeteWaldo]

I think Waldo's style is post and run Zone.

I don't think he has encountered too many people that actually read through all his copy and pastes and hold him to account for it.

Come on my friend. It is you who's still running and hiding from the two posts that I spent so much time carefully preparing for you, in efforts to introduce you to the Gospel and how the crucifixion of Christ was prophesied in the Old Testament. The same thread that by the way, a few posts before yours, I explain why I believe the scriptures instruct me to "turn away" from Zone. (let alone that rather than discuss substance of posts she is preoccupied with demonizing Christians)
So why don't you stop your running and hiding from truth, and actually make an effort at seeking out the truth in those posts, for a change?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post967817

You are betting your eternal life on the STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record of an illiterate SW Arabian desert dweller who was as opposite of Jesus Christ, as his antichrist drivel is to the Gospel.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it." (Book #93, Hadith #506)
Search the word coitus in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

No surprise then of those true Muslims who do as Muhammad did and instructed his followers to do:

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Or why don't you present even a shred of historical and archaeological record that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD? Where did 4500 years of history and archaeology disappear to?
Why don't you explain to us how Ishmael traveled across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unknown, unexplored barren desert wasteland, most of a thousand years before the real historical record tells us the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, a couple thousand years before Mecca was established, in time to attend Abraham's burial with Isaac? (Muslims also visit Abraham's tomb in Hebron)
GEOGRAPHY OF MECCA - ISLAM
You see, my friend, the entirety of Islamic what can only be called "tradition", that masquerades as a 4500 year pre-5th century history of Mecca, is a work of pure fiction that was penned between the 7th to 10th century AD, without reference to any actual historical record that precedes the 6th century AD.
THE HISTORY OF MECCA

 

[zone]

I think Waldo's style is post and run Zone.

I don't think he has encountered too many people that actually read through all his copy and pastes and hold him to account for it.

hi drett.
that's alright.
none of this is new to me.
we'll get to the bottom of it.

i'll give my speech now and move forward.....

Islam is absolutely a false religion, you know i am a Christian, and do wish for your eternal salvation, through the Gospel of Christ Crucified for your sins.

Muslims who commit crimes, great or small, in the name of their religion are responsible for those and are and will be held to account on the day of Judgement. this is never in question for me. i am not in favor of Islam, certainly not, as i know Jesus Christ, The True God and Savior.

at the same time, i not not in favor of Christians (or anyone) holding double standards concerning crimes committed by anyone - claiming these are overlooked by God, due to an unbiblical notion of just whom the Lord saves and forgives....NO ONE who rejects the Son of God, rejects the salvation offered and available through the God-Breathed Holy Gospel, by the power of The Spirit of God will be saved, nor forgiven.

forgiveness of sins is granted ONLY by Grace, through faith in the free gift of the spotless Lamb of God slain for the remission of sins for all who believe.




this discussion however does not appear to be about The Gospel of salvation, but rather a world-view; a political system; and warring between unsaved individuals who have rejected the Son of God and are not forgiven. the wrath of God is abiding on them all.

Judaism is a false religion and its adherents are not saved. Isalm, the same....i am a Christian, and this is what i know.

no one is saved outside Christ Almighty.

but we too were once among them (and are sinners also), we were once also by nature children of wrath, the only difference between children born of the Spirit of God, adopted by God forgiven by God and those who are not is their rejection of the Gift of Salvation from the wrath of God coming upon the world on the Last Day.



this discussion is something else.

so we ought to endeavor to be honest about what we are discussing - unbelieving jews are not saved and chosen. unbelieving muslims are not saved. unbelieving anyone is not saved. No one who reject the Lord jesus Christ will be saved.

so let us discuss what i will always refer to as the unsaved warring against each other over things of this world which are coming to an end.

let us discuss the political and religious fighting (which is vanity) in truth and equity, as best we are able.

not understanding issues is one thing.

lying about nations and history and peoples is bad enough.

lying about what The Bible says is intolerable.

 

[zone]

this whole matter can be put to rest...concerning all events of the last 20 years.

the history of who was in Palestine 200 or 100 years ago is irrelevant, since unbelieving jews or arabs or anyone are not the people of God, are not saved, have no God-given claim to anything.

~

we can get to the bottom of what is happening today, and what has been in the works for 2000 years by answering ONE SINGLE QUESTION - who did 9-11?

if we are unable to discern the truth of this, i seriously question the Spirit of Truth working us.



Muslims did not commit the 9-11 terrorist attack.

Israel and American and British NeoCons did it.


here's why:

Israel has never declared it's borders.
the reason is simple.

and it's found in depths of the parallel religion which upon rejection of Logos, morphed and forever sealed a darkness of mind to whomever it devours....pen was put to paper, and a permanent revolutionary drive against Jesus Christ The Lamb slain and His people was set.


if we really need to know who the real pawns are in all of this it's the Kurds. okay?


what has to be said, and what amazes me is apparently not understood by Christians who battle for flesh and blood causes in this world is:

Ephesians 6
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

this is not about loving or hating one group over another. it's about not doing that.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Christians have one commission to the world only.

the Gospel of salvation.
for everyone who will receive it.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

why are we involved in the pretense of a carnal kingdom when The Kingdom is not of this world?

in any case.

the palestinians (whoever they really are) and the jews (whoever they really are) just need the Gospel and no help for killing each other.

is this really hard?

 

[Abiding]

Zone once on cc a woman a Saudi heard a blurb from me
pmed me and after i gave her my opinion of zionism she immediately
received the gospel and told it to her girlfriends.

She couldnt receive the gospel she said if Jesus was on the zionists side.
And said all she had ever heard before from Americans was that they(Israelis) were Gods chosen people
and God hated muslims and was gona nuke them.She was born and raised in Palistine.

 

[zone]

The greatest stride could be made if the world would quit pretending that Islam is a religion, and point out to those poor sorely deluded folks, that the followers of Muhammad are exactly that.

Perhaps the most horrific example of child abuse in the history of mankind. Makes the Nazi youth movement look like a fun loving bunch of kids by comparison.

let's stay balanced okay Pete?
we can do this all day long if you want to.

The greatest stride could be made if the world would quit pretending that Judaism is a religion God approves of, and point out to those poor sorely deluded folks, that the followers of Judaism are exactly that....lost sinners on whom God's wrath abides.

Perhaps the most horrific example of child abuse in the history of mankind. Makes the Nazi youth movement look like a fun loving bunch of kids by comparison.

This photograph of Israeli children writing on artillery shells bound for targets in Lebanon has caused outrage among many bloggers, not least those from the Arab world.

The debate about the image has, of course, become part of the propaganda war that is running alongside the conflict.

"From the children of Israel, to the children of Lebanon, with love," writes one Greek blogger, Mavrosgatos, showing the image above a very graphic photograph apparently showing the scorched corpse of a Lebanese child. "These [Israeli] children are raised with hatred instead of milk," the blogger writes.

Another blog similarly shows another child victim, a little girl, lying dead in southern Lebanon.

Lisa Goldman (who has also contributed to the Guardian News blog) has attempted to put the image in some kind of context. [?????] She writes on her blog, On the Face, that she has done some research into the circumstances around the photograph being taken, calling people who were there.

Goldman says that the children were from Kiryat Shmona, which is right on the border with Lebanon and had been hit by Hizbullah rockets. The AP photographer who took the photograph does not want to speak publicly about it, but Goldman is given an account by a reporter who was there.

The reporter insists that nobody who was there spoke with hatred about the Lebanese.

Goldman is told the children had been scared by the rockets and had been cooped up in underground shelters for five days and were probably a bit giddy at being outside and at the interest from photographers. An Israeli unit was in the town and some 12 photographers were taking pictures, Goldman was told.

According to the account, some of the parents wrote messages to Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah and then they handed the markers to the children who started drawing Israeli flags on the shells. The photographers, looking for a powerful image, had found one.

Some bloggers have wondered if the media was culpable for perhaps coaxing the children into writing on the missiles, though Goldman's related account suggests it was the parents who invited the children to write messages.

An explosive image in Lebanon conflict | News | guardian.co.uk < click




PeteWaldo:

is one satanic child-abuse and the other is not?


______ yes


______ no

 

[zone]

Zone once on cc a woman a Saudi heard a blurb from me
pmed me and after i gave her my opinion of zionism she immediately
received the gospel and told it to her girlfriends.

She couldnt receive the gospel she said if Jesus was on the zionists side.
And said all she had ever heard before from Americans was that they(Israelis) were Gods chosen people
and God hated muslims and was gona nuke them.She was born and raised in Palistine.

i know mike

which is why it's pretty important for us to pin down where dispensationalism came from and why it is wrong, and why it is antichrist and hinders the salvation of souls.

seeing christian zionism (however they wrap it) from the outside is the most disturbing thing of all.



BUT - Praise God for you!

that's amen and amen!!!!

thank you for sharing how it WORKS

love you

 

[zone]

Come on my friend. It is you who's still running and hiding from the two posts that I spent so much time carefully preparing for you, in efforts to introduce you to the Gospel and how the crucifixion of Christ was prophesied in the Old Testament. The same thread that by the way, a few posts before yours, I explain why I believe the scriptures instruct me to "turn away" from Zone. (let alone that rather than discuss substance of posts she is preoccupied with demonizing Christians)

i'll take that to mean you know you're caught and can't address your problematic 'theology'?.

i thought we were going to address the revised truth of WW2?

not down for that?



do you think you're going to win drett or any other muslim over with that stuff you got?

you don't even know what the Bible says.

you might 'turn away from zone"
but i am not required to turn away from you.
i'm called to expose your false teachings.

and who you are really working for.

and so i will

 

[Abiding]

Every day more torah believing jews are standing up and speaking out to the
world against zionism and quoting scripture to base their opinions on.
In a way we are not talking about jews in a sense alot of Christians think about a jew.
No i think we are talking against the synogogue of satan. Big difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Every day more torah believing jews are standing up and speaking out to the
world against zionism and quoting scripture to base their opinions on.
In a way we are not talking about jews in a sense alot of Christians think about a jew.
No i think we are talking against the synogogue of satan. Big difference.

I think alot of people get mixed up as to what people think of jews.

some see them as people just like us, Who need God.

Some see them as satan, and wants to kill them all

Some see them as Gods chosen, and show they do not care about them by letting them believe what they want, and not giving them the gospel.

And it is not just a smal subject. I think we see that in here, This is of satan you can be sure of this.. the first one is the only one we should be concerned with.. But I do not see this in here, but from a few, on either side!

 

[crossnote]

Despite the little rascals...

I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit—that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
(Rom 9:1-5)

the promises above include the LAND.

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
(Rom 11:1-2)

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
(Rom 11:11-12)

and here is the kicker...

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Rom 11:28-29)

It is what it is and I choose not to explain it away by 'spiritualizing' Israel.
God will bring them to repentance and fulfill even His land promises to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is what it is and I choose not to explain it away by 'spiritualizing' Israel.
God will bring them to repentance and fulfill even His land promises to them.

so are you saying we should wait on God. or we should try to evangelise them now.. as we do the whole world. Knowing one day God will turn them, but we should not be slack waiting on that day?

 

[Abiding]

i'll take that to mean you know you're caught and can't address your problematic 'theology'?.

i thought we were going to address the revised truth of WW2?

not down for that? very cute, too bad. still to this day DC is floating bills to arrest even the talking of this.



do you think you're going to win drett or any other muslim over with that stuff you got?

you don't even know what the Bible says Yes but you know parroting has been just fine up until now
but please did he quote from wally Shoebot?

you might 'turn away from zone"
but i am not required to turn away from you.
i'm called to expose your false teachings.

and who you are really working for.

and so i will

Can we be sweethearts about it. We are aware of his devises.
​This generation has been taught if you dont smile like a tv evangelist your not the real deal.

 

[zone]

Every day more torah believing jews are standing up and speaking out to the
world against zionism and quoting scripture to base their opinions on.
In a way we are not talking about jews in a sense alot of Christians think about a jew.
No i think we are talking against the synogogue of satan. Big difference.

still though, i can't pretend there is not a tribal and cultural pressure to remain separate, according to the misguided belief in being chosen (saved) beloved outside of and sadly because of rejecting Jesus whom they are taught to believe was a false prophet.

rabbinic judaism is particularly problematic. for obvious reasons.
it is in the rabbi's interests to keep their people IN...away from anything that could reveal what many rabbis DO know...that Jesus WAS the messiah.

the Pharisees are still with us. we can't pretend they are not.

even secular jews have the same pressures, and the same ultimate mindset - however unconsciously it may reside, it's still there...they can't know of course that's it a terrible mistake, a horribly false religion.

and a terrifyingly deceptive belief - that God has somehow accepted anyone who rejects Jesus.

this is a far different problem from the one muslims face. it's easy for us to see how wrong islam is...but look how hard it seems to be for us to not even know who are the people of God!

and we say we believe the scriptures.

the bible doesn't deal with gentiles pagan religions other than to tell us they're all false and all lead to hell.

it does however make a very clear description of a religion and persons adhering to it who were the very specific enemies of Jesus and the prophets and the apostles.

yet today we are not say this!

 

[Abiding]

I think alot of people get mixed up as to what people think of jews.

some see them as people just like us, Who need God.

Some see them as satan, and wants to kill them all

Some see them as Gods chosen, and show they do not care about them by letting them believe what they want, and not giving them the gospel.

And it is not just a smal subject. I think we see that in here, This is of satan you can be sure of this.. the first one is the only one we should be concerned with.. But I do not see this in here, but from a few, on either side!

Actually EG i think some people know some bible. But who is a jew?, a true Israelite and what does it matter
if it matters at all i honestly think maybe less than 5% know even a little. And what Jesus meant when He told them
you are not of my sheep, your father is the devil.....no i dont think hardly anyone understands whats up there
and what that has to do with Israel.

 

[zone]

Despite the little rascals...

I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit—that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
(Rom 9:1-5)

the promises above include the LAND.

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
(Rom 11:1-2)

So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
(Rom 11:11-12)

and here is the kicker...

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Rom 11:28-29)

It is what it is and I choose not to explain it away by 'spiritualizing' Israel.
God will bring them to repentance and fulfill even His land promises to them.

we'll agree to disagree on those passages crossnote.
israel is spiritual or israel is of the flesh.

for they are not all israel who are of israel.

Romans 9:6
Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God's people!

even if jews today were ancient israelites (they're not), it's Christ alone, and Paul said they were able to receive mercy already in his day.

there's no gap theory allowed for in the texts at all.

not going to argue it with you though.

 

[zone]

Actually EG i think some people know some bible. But who is a jew?, a true Israelite and what does it matter
if it matters at all i honestly think maybe less than 5% know even a little. And what Jesus meant when He told them
you are not of my sheep, your father is the devil.....no i dont think hardly anyone understands whats up there
and what that has to do with Israel.

it just is what it is.
we can accept it and do what we can with the Gospel or we can pretend it's something else.


The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple.

All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually EG i think some people know some bible. But who is a jew?, a true Israelite and what does it matter
if it matters at all i honestly think maybe less than 5% know even a little. And what Jesus meant when He told them
you are not of my sheep, your father is the devil.....no i dont think hardly anyone understands whats up there
and what that has to do with Israel.

I think anyone who truely understands scripture would look at it this way today.

1. There will be no peace in palestine or israel or whatever you want to call it. you have three religions who hate each other

2. All people (palestinains and jews) need Christ.

3. The only way to bring peace to the area is to bring them all to Christ (as if that would happen)

4. What God is going to do in the future has no bearing on what we need to be doing today, which is to spread the gospel to ALL people.

if we all thought like this, the silly bickering we have would disappear. because our minds would be focused on the hear and now.. and on the things which matter, bringing people to Christ.

 

[jimmydiggs]

i know mike

which is why it's pretty important for us to pin down where dispensationalism came from and why it is wrong, and why it is antichrist and hinders the salvation of souls.

seeing christian zionism (however they wrap it) from the outside is the most disturbing thing of all.



BUT - Praise God for you!

that's amen and amen!!!!

thank you for sharing how it WORKS

love you

Quite frankly I find Dispensationalism to be rather disgusting. It seeks to establish two Gospels. Jews get saved by how well they obey the law, Christians by grace.

 

[Drett]

Come on my friend. It is you who's still running and hiding from the two posts that I spent so much time carefully preparing for you, in efforts to introduce you to the Gospel and how the crucifixion of Christ was prophesied in the Old Testament. The same thread that by the way, a few posts before yours, I explain why I believe the scriptures instruct me to "turn away" from Zone. (let alone that rather than discuss substance of posts she is preoccupied with demonizing Christians)
So why don't you stop your running and hiding from truth, and actually make an effort at seeking out the truth in those posts, for a change?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post967817

You are betting your eternal life on the STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record of an illiterate SW Arabian desert dweller who was as opposite of Jesus Christ, as his antichrist drivel is to the Gospel.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it." (Book #93, Hadith #506)
Search the word coitus in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

No surprise then of those true Muslims who do as Muhammad did and instructed his followers to do:

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Or why don't you present even a shred of historical and archaeological record that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD? Where did 4500 years of history and archaeology disappear to?
Why don't you explain to us how Ishmael traveled across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unknown, unexplored barren desert wasteland, most of a thousand years before the real historical record tells us the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, a couple thousand years before Mecca was established, in time to attend Abraham's burial with Isaac? (Muslims also visit Abraham's tomb in Hebron)
GEOGRAPHY OF MECCA - ISLAM
You see, my friend, the entirety of Islamic what can only be called "tradition", that masquerades as a 4500 year pre-5th century history of Mecca, is a work of pure fiction that was penned between the 7th to 10th century AD, without reference to any actual historical record that precedes the 6th century AD.
THE HISTORY OF MECCA

Look let me be frank. I am here to highlight human rights violations that are being ignored. The rules of this forum restrict my response to your claims and I accept that. So you can continue to pat yourself on the back on how knowledgeable you are. I am just going to ignore everything you type from now on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Quite frankly I find Dispensationalism to be rather disgusting. It seeks to establish two Gospels. Jews get saved by how well they obey the law, Christians by grace.

Not all of it does.. so get the facts before you make accusations against things you do not understand.

You find that no more discusting than I find God will not keep his eternal promise.. so think of it both ways!