Israel or Palestine?

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crossnote said:
well I've been around all the "Mills". Rom 11 is what clinched it for me...all of it, not just snippets.
Click to expand...

mkay.
so you figger God needs a temporary future 1000 years for something.
i know....thats okay
 
Abiding said:
ty rachel. my point wasnt about all those who are against zionism
The groups im thinking about believe the torah enough to know they
cannot have the land back until god gives it to them without monkey
business and lies and wars and the rest.

By the way last we talked you gave me a percentage of Khazars and Ashkenazis in Israel.
And a run down on percentages of each group. I wondered about your source because
from the sources i get....which is a bunch randomly your very low % was the total
opposite of what i get. And it seems that the majority if Ashkenazis are khazars and some estimates
of Israelis are 80 to 90% of the population. Wonder if public relations are involved here.
Ive just made it a side hobby to find credible info on this subject.
Click to expand...

its there. coming from Israeli scientists.
many jews are coping with the news.

some are not.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Um, again, before you go making false accusations like your sister there.

1. It does not promise them a savior. there savior already came 2000 years ago, you might know him, his name is Jesus, and he is called the christ.

2. It does not say they are saved by the works of the law..

there are a few forms of dispensationalism out there, Your fighting one of them. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM.

so unlike you sister, try to figure out what one believes before you condemn them
Click to expand...

can you please not make this about you and your beliefs no one understands.
this is a good thread.

its not about you EG

and get over the your sister - false accusations stuff....get on with it.
 
here is the passage that makes me think that AD 70 was an act of titus that God allowed instead of a direct act of God...

revelation 12:16..."But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."

i believe this verse symbolizes the destruction of jerusalem...i think it is natural to assume that 'the earth' represents -earthly- players and not the hand of God...
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
as far as God is concerned AD 70 has nothing to do with land disputes...
Click to expand...

okay rachel.
God decreed it desolate.
you know Josephus.
you know Galatians 4
youre not a dispensationalist

so not sure what the point is.

theres zero said about this earthly jerusalem being restored.

its heavenly Zion
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
here is the passage that makes me think that AD 70 was an act of titus that God allowed instead of a direct act of God...

revelation 12:16..."But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."

i believe this verse symbolizes the destruction of jerusalem...i think it is natural to assume that 'the earth' represents -earthly- players and not the hand of God...
Click to expand...

this is about Mary and Jesus escaping to egypt

revelation 12:16..."But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."
 
Abiding said:
then why do you always have to come and aggitate a thread?
I see no reason for it. Your not qualified to do it. whats the point?
Even tonite i was hoping maybe this time i can post in a thread
of my interest.......bammmmm again senseless fighting before anything
got off the ground really. Yes it would be best to blog this stuff.
Click to expand...

hang in mike.
its all good.
you know this stuff.
 
Abiding said:
You make good points but they sometimes havnt anything to do with
the intent of the post your responding to.

I could say before the early part of the 20th century jews and muslims and
christians lived together pretty much at peace.

And their opposition to america had more to do with american policy and our deeds
than for religious reasons. My point is that none of them really hate americans
just our government, and if there was religious reasons then its again for our national policies
and bedfellows.
Click to expand...

ambassador sidi haji abdrahaman of tripoli to ambassadors john adams and thomas jefferson on why the muslim barbary states 'make war on nations who had done them no injury'...
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."

they don't have a problem with us just because we are mean to them...
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
here is the passage that makes me think that AD 70 was an act of titus that God allowed instead of a direct act of God...

revelation 12:16..."But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth."

i believe this verse symbolizes the destruction of jerusalem...i think it is natural to assume that 'the earth' represents -earthly- players and not the hand of God...
Click to expand...

Revelation doesn't portray things as if God be just lettin things happen.

18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
 
zone said:
so are any of them in Covenant with God.
no not one.
Click to expand...

well the messianic jews are in covenant with God insofar as they accept jesus as messiah in the christian sense...

the point i was making was that jews who care little for the torah and obsess over the talmud are most likely to be antizionist...the ones who follow the torah and reject the talmud completely range from apathetic to zionist...and the ones that really don't care about either the torah or talmud can be antizionist or moderately zionist depending on their politics...

the assumption that jews who become antizionists do so because of their love for the torah is usually mistaken...
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
well the messianic jews are in covenant with God insofar as they accept jesus as messiah in the christian sense...

the point i was making was that jews who care little for the torah and obsess over the talmud are most likely to be antizionist...the ones who follow the torah and reject the talmud completely range from apathetic to zionist...and the ones that really don't care about either the torah or talmud can be antizionist or moderately zionist depending on their politics...

the assumption that jews who become antizionists do so because of their love for the torah is usually mistaken...
Click to expand...

okay but what they all have in common in an abiding and virtually unbreakable tribal identity which translates into world politics.

Israel FIRST. right or wrong

IT IS NOT WORKING
 
1still_waters said:
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.



24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”


He says that generation will fill up wrath.
He said those stones on that temple would be cast down.


Who does all those things according to three scriptures i showed?



God does.
Click to expand...

same issue as before...

here is how i would expect those key phrases to read if jesus was warning of a direct act of God...
"Fill up, then the measure of your fathers' guilt, and my Father will punish."
"I say to you, all these things my Father will bring upon this generation."

i want to see something like that before i can accept the 'act of God' view...
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
same issue as before...

here is how i would expect those key phrases to read if jesus was warning of a direct act of God...
"Fill up, then the measure of your fathers' guilt, and my Father will punish."
"I say to you, all these things my Father will bring upon this generation."

i want to see something like that before i can accept the 'act of God' view...
Click to expand...

who other than God punishes and fills up guilt?
 
1still_waters said:
who other than God punishes and fills up guilt?
Click to expand...

images
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
ambassador sidi haji abdrahaman of tripoli to ambassadors john adams and thomas jefferson on why the muslim barbary states 'make war on nations who had done them no injury'...
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise."

they don't have a problem with us just because we are mean to them...
Click to expand...
It's assumed it's God

Who else punishes once guilt is filled up.


its always known its God who acts when covenant was disobeyed.

Lev 26

14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,
16 I also will do this to you:
I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies.
Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you.


they know who punishes.
 
Zone i saw Tony awhile back. this one is more narowly focused but it gave
me some leads as i hate not being able to prove things first before
believing it.
[video=youtube;YXTsiI_jSv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YXTsiI_jSv4[/video]
 
1still_waters said:
It's assumed it's God

Who else punishes once guilt is filled up.


its always known its God who acts when covenant was disobeyed.

Lev 26

14 ‘But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,
16 I also will do this to you:
I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies.
Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you.


they know who punishes.
Click to expand...



images


STILL TEACHES
 
k mikey...off to bed...will watch that one tomorrow.
i have archival records of all of it...govt stuff
not that its needed.

its really the OTHER thing i want to get to.

make the Kabbalah connection.
it should all fall into place quickly.

barring the Saul Alinsky cog-dis reactions technique...but it dont make no matter to me no more.

BRING IT:cool:

nite
loves ya
 
Abiding said:
ty rachel. my point wasnt about all those who are against zionism
The groups im thinking about believe the torah enough to know they
cannot have the land back until
God gives it to them without monkey
business and lies and wars and the rest. And are also aware what is required for the residents that would
be there at the time.

By the way last we talked you gave me a percentage of Khazars and Ashkenazis in Israel.
And a run down on percentages of each group. I wondered about your source because
from the sources i get....which is a bunch randomly your very low % was the total
opposite of what i get. And it seems that the majority if Ashkenazis are khazars and some estimates
of Israelis are 80 to 90% of the population. Wonder if public relations are involved here.
Ive just made it a side hobby to find credible info on this subject.
Click to expand...

well actually it seems that the jews you were talking about don't actually bother much with the torah...these groups barely even study it in detail after elementary school in fact...

what is going on is that they believe what the talmud says about them not getting the land back until the messiah comes...they are as far off from the kingdom of God as the zionists you oppose...

ashkenazi jews have a slight majority in israel...and about 80% of the jews worldwide are ashkenazim... and every study i have seen so far indicates that only about 12% of ashkenazi jews have any distinctively khazar contribution in their genes... in genetics that is considered 'high' in that it indicates a lot more intermarriage than you would typically expect between two unrelated populations...but not nearly enough to indicate that the khazars are actually the origin of the ashkenazi jews...

you should probably research the origin of the khazar theory...it was formulated based on the same kind of thoroughly debunked body measurement based racial 'science' that argued that africans were closer to apes than europeans...and it was adopted and popularized by the 'british israel' cult...
 
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