Israel or Palestine?

[RachelBibleStudent]

the teaching of chosen-ness does translate into a superiority complex (however innocently the idea is adopted by little kids its taught to). that complex is met by the irreconcilable teaching that for some inexplicabale reason everybody just hates jews - no reason other than...what...they are chosen? gentiles are completely incapable of accepting jews? whatever it manifests as.

so two things are taught: we are chosen, and we are hated.

this sets up an automatic system of loyalty and dysfunction, which is actually cultivated by the Rabbinic system, and is taken advantage of by criminal cults and gangs within the jewish community....we stick together right or wrong, and in actuality we are never wrong.

there is something about the collective mindset that generally, and i say broadly...which suppresses and inhibits slef-examination and reflection on why things are the way they are.

its explained to the people in the simplest yet most tragically mentally disabling terms: we are chosen and we are hated < no resolution ever to this problem - this leads to terrible mental illnesses for the people, since this is an impossible position to be in - perpetual cognitive dissonance.

evidently you haven't spoken to many informed jews about this 'chosen and hated' question...

the classic jewish position on this question is that jews are in many ways actually 'chosen to suffer'...for one thing they believe the 'suffering servant' of isaiah is -them-

now skip over the 'ohmygoshthatissoantichristofthem!' reaction and just realize that they -do- have a worldview that resolves what you thought was an irresolvable dilemma...there is no 'perpetual cognitive dissonance' leading to 'terrible mental illnesses'

also i will point out that your logic is flawed because we -christians- should in theory suffer from the same 'cognitive dissonance' you say that jews should deal with...and worse yet in our case it is true... we are both elect and hated by the world...

and most of us are still psychologically stable in spite of it...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

so, they were blackmailing the United States, who no longer had protection from piracy.
the US complied, agreed to pay the extortion racket....what's so unusual about this?
crime is crime no matter who commits it.

we all know all nations and races have practiced the barbarism of slavery. what i dont like is when some deny they ever did such a thing or ever would

what is 'unusual'...or at least significant to modern foreign relations...is that we have a case from over 200 years ago where the crimes...piracy and slavery...were -directly- motivated by islam...and they -admitted- it and indicated that it was the -norm- in islam...

like i said before...muslims don't have a problem with us just because some of us have been mean to them since 1948...

 

[crossnote]

So I guess the name of Israel can remain and the Palestinians live there rather than the Europeans that are currently there ?

Yes the Jews were scattered into all the earth as the Scriptures foretold ...even Europe with the promise that He would bring them back. Besides they have been returning from all over the earth...not just Europe.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

hey rachel...you might want to get up to speed.

sorry dear, not debunked. they tried to. maybe avoid the debunk debunkers...they're losing.


see, there are Israelis who are not religious, and do not have a vested interest in claiming Biblical Israelite heritage, okay?
they are the New Revisionists everybody's hatin' on and dismissing.

why, in the face of new evidence i do not know. what's wrong with the truth?
the jews at Khazaria.com are not ashamed of their heritage...why on earth are WE??


did you ever contact the jews at Khazaria.com and ask THEM why they are pedaling an antisemitic British-Israelism-level myth? please.


anyways....let's get this DNA stuff out here. since it's the big hairy deal, and everything seems to be riding on it - even though as Christians we are supposed to know salvation was NEVER about RACE. and unsaved jews are not saved.

seriously.

argue with these folks:



Eran Elhaik confirms Ariella Oppenheim's DNA study

"Our PC, biogeographical estimation, admixture, IBD, ASD, and uniparental analyses were consistent in depicting a Caucasus ancestry for European Jews. Our first analyses revealed tight genetic relationship of European Jews and Caucasus populations and pinpointed the biogeographical origin of European Jews to the south of Khazaria."

"Our findings thus reject the Rhineland Hypothesis and uphold the thesis that Eastern European Jews are Judeo-Khazars in origin."

"The most parsimonious explanation for our findings is that Eastern European Jews are of Judeo- Khazarian ancestry forged over many centuries in the Caucasus."

"The religious conversion of the Khazars encompassed most of the Empire’s citizens and subordinate tribes and lasted for the next 400 years (Polak 1951; Baron 1993) until the invasion of the Mongols (Polak 1951; Dinur 1961; Brook 2006). At the final collapse of their empire (13th century), many of the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and later migrated to Central Europe and admixed with the neighboring populations."

"The remarkable close proximity of European Jews and populations residing on the opposite ends of ancient Khazaria, such as Armenians, Georgians, Azerbaijani Jews, and Druze (Figures 3, S2- 3, 5), supports a common Near Eastern-Caucasus ancestry."

"The conclusions of the latest genome-wide studies (Atzmon et al. 2010; Behar et al. 2010) that European Jews had a single Middle Eastern origin are incomplete as neither study tested the Khazarian Hypothesis, to the extent done here. Finally, our findings confirm both oral narratives and the canonical Jewish literature describing the Khazar’s conversion to Judaism (e.g., “Sefer ha-Kabbalah” by Abraham ben Daud [1161 CE], and “The Khazars” by Rabbi Jehudah Halevi [1140 CE]) (Polak 1951; Koestler 1976)."

The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses < click

.....


why we can't just accept the overwhelming evidence is beyond me.

the methodology behind the khazar theory certainly -was- debunked... it was founded entirely on darwinian and racist assumptions that even modern evolutionists will not own any more...

the original version of this method was categorizing people by stereotypical character traits...which is so ridiculous that it isn't even worthy of response... here is an example of this kind of reasoning from the late 1800s...quoted from none other than the originator of the khazar theory himself...ernest renan...

"Nature has made a race of workers, the Chinese race, who have wonderful manual dexterity and almost no sense of honor...A race of tillers of the soil, the Negro; treat him with kindness and humanity, and all will be as it should; a race of masters and soldiers, the European race."

you can see that renan was not so much an antisemite as an equal opportunity racist...

a more 'sophisticated' variation of these methods consisted of categorizing people by measuring their foreheads and noses and chins...it is now widely acknowledged that this method is flawed because applying it would lump completely unrelated people like mexicans and arabs or navajo and neanderthals into a single category...and also because it fails to account for wide variations observed within groups of related people...

this was the method used by lothrop stoddard who attempted to revive the khazar theory in the 1920s...stoddard supported nazi eugentics and forcible sterilization as 'scientific and truly humanitarian' and saying that 'if anything' the judgments of the nazi 'hereditary health' courts that decided forcible sterlization cases were 'too conservative'...though he later opposed the holocaust itself as being not so humane...

in any case this absurd and bigoted pseudoscience has since been tossed into the garbage bin of history where it belongs...

the demise of racist 'science' was the end of the khazar theory for everyone except the 'british israel' cult and the antizionists...

jumping ahead to nowdays...i have looked at the khazaria website...and they don't even seem to be promoting the khazar theory...for example they say this..."The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite" and "Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples from the northern Mediterranean region and even less from Slavs and Khazars"

these are not the kinds of things promoters of the khazar theory would write...

i will address elhaik's study in another reply since this one is getting long...until then i will just say that elhaik's conclusions ignore some of his own data...and he makes a huge and unwarranted leap of logic...

i will just point out that the title of what you are quoting here...'eran elhaik confirms ariella oppenheim's DNA study' is completely incorrect...because oppenheim's concluded the exact opposite...she actually found that 70% of jewish men and 50% of arab men share common paternal ancestors...in other words the vast majority of modern jews are israelite...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt

In his search for Jewish ancestry, Eran Elhaik says he has discovered that some Ashkenazis originated in the Khazar empire, not the kingdom of Judah.

By Ofer Aderet | 09:12 28.12.12 | 64

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper < click

ok so now i will address the flaws in elhaik's research...

the biggest flaw... one that completely invalidates his entire conclusion...is his choice of 'surrogates' for the khazar gene pool...namely the armenians and georgians... neither are even remotely related to the khazars...in fact both were present in the southern caucusus region for literally thousands of years -before- the khazars migrated there...they actually have more affinity to -middle eastern- peoples than they do to the khazars... a much more sensible surrogate for him to choose would have been the bulgarians and hungarians...

to put it plainly...his paper is totally dependent on a false and ultimately invalidating equivocation between 'khazar' and 'caucusus' peoples...the surrogates he chose to represent the khazars are other caucasus people that are not even related to the khazars...

i am not going to suppose that elhaik has any agenda...though from looking at his blog it does appear that his overall objectivity is tainted with overenthusiasm for his khazar hobby... instead what i see is a lack of essential historical knowledge on his part that has led to a fatal flaw in his study...the consequence of which is that his data doesn't prove anything even remotely close to what he thinks it proves...in fact what he has proven is closer to the -opposite- of what he thinks he has proven...

another failure i see that stems from his lack of historical knowledge is the conclusion he draws from his finding of genetic similarity between ashkenazi jews and the druze ethnicity... the druze are simply arabs with unique religious beliefs...most modern druze can be traced back to lebanese arab populations... evidently elhaik isn't aware of that...because instead of drawing the natural conclusion that others have drawn from similar data...namely that the ashkenazim have an israelite origin...he supposes instead that the druze also have an origin with the khazars... at the rate he is going with these false assumptions the entire population of the middle east both ancient and modern will be traced to the khazars soon...

elhaik is not an idiot or a crank or a propagandist...i browsed through some of his other research and he appears to be a competent geneticist...but in this case he is plainly missing a lot of necessary prerequisite -historical- knowledge... and his paper being published in a genetics journal was likely reviewed solely by geneticists...if any historians were included in the peer review process his paper would have probably been rejected...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Elhaik's research is in line with earlier DNA research

By Ben Alofs 30 Dec 2012 03:41PM

In 2005 Ellen Levy-Coffman synthesised and assessed all the DNA evidence published so far, regarding the origins of the Jews, in her article "A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE" It is availabe online and makes very interesting reading. Here is a quote from her article: "But Jewish DNA presents a picture that is far more complex than just the Cohanim results. This picture is also far more diverse than what many genetic studies on Ashkenazi Jews would suggest. Instead, many of those studies have focused heavily on the Israelite DNA results, often downplaying the significant contribution of European and Khazarian ancestors.

The examination of only a single component of Jewish ancestry has resulted in an incomplete and, to a certain extent, distorted presentation of the Jewish genetic picture. Diversity was present from Jewish beginnings, when various Semitic and Mediterranean peoples came together to form the Israelites of long ago. The genetic picture was clearly enriched during the Diaspora, when Jews spread far and wide across Europe, attracting converts and intermarrying over time with their European hosts. The most recent DNA evidence indicates that from this blending of Middle Eastern and European ancestors, the diverse DNA ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews emerged." Eran Elhaik's research findings is clearly in line with this.

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper < click

another sensationalistic title that gets it completely wrong...elhaik's research is not in line with earlier research as summarized in levy-coffman's article...he is an outlier...

for example...this quotation from levy-coffman directly contradicts elhaik's rejection of the 'rhineland hypothesis'..."The studies also indicate a sharing of genetic ancestry between eastern and western Ashkenazim, supporting the view that some portion of Eastern European Jewry was founded by western Ashkenazim."

levy-coffman also acknowledges the fact of the israelite ancestry of the ashkenazim..."DNA research has also revealed significant genetic links between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jewish populations, despite their separation for generations. With the Cohanim study, researchers found a clear genetic connection between the Jewish priests and a shared Israelite ancestor from the past. Additional genetic results suggest that the Ashkenazim can trace at least part of their ancestry to their Israelite forbearers."

levy-coffman says pretty much nothing that contradicts what i have already argued...that ashkenazi jews are primarily israelites...with a significant but not even close to overwhelming contribution from the khazars to their gene pool...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Either way, God's hand and will, and intent is in it.
You can't say God isn't in it, because he's just letting it happen.
It's happening due to something he did.
The something he did?
He took away his protection.<--Possibly.

Imagine there is a village at the bottom of a mountain.
There is a really big snowball at the top of the mountain that could crush the village.
But God is holding that snowball on the condition they don't break covenant.
They break covenant.
God doesn't push the snowball,but he let's it go.

You going to say that snowball isn't directly acted upon by God because he let it go instead of pushed it?

You're splittin hairs that can't really be split.

i agree that it was God's will and intent...but that wasn't the question that was asked...

the question was not whose will or intent it was...the question was 'whose -doing- was it?'

i don't think trying to answer the question exactly as asked is splitting hairs...

 

[PeteWaldo]

I have been reading and watching these threads and all the ideas that people talk about when it comes to Jerusalem and Israel.
I will say this and you can do what you want with it.

If you guys would just take five minutes and look up what ZONE and others are talking about. The amount of work it takes to find these things out and sift through all the lies is staggering. Instead of just sticking your HEADS in the sand just look it up please ZONE and some others have done the work for you just point and click I beg you.

To what? Protocols of the Elders of Zion perhaps?

You have inherited lies Jer 16;19-21 this lines up with Rev. 12;9 the enemys time is short. Look those up please. If you think and believe that zionism and special people will all of the sudden just get it YOU are taking MT 23;37-39 out of contex and content not to mention you dont know the culture. To deny this fact ......

Since the restoration of Jews to their land is a physical matter of fact reality, as anticipated by Christians centuries before that restoration began to take place, as Christians we know that it didn't happen in a spiritual vacuum. This subject is a wonderful definer. Half the church believes the restoration of Jews to their land is just as prophesied, while the other half must believe it is of Satan. Isn't that amazing?
Unfortunately, while I got a few Zionists to reply to the only question I raised in the last paragraph of the OP of the thread related to this question, I couldn't get any anti-Zionists to offer a response. Perhaps you could be so kind as to do so:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel.html

Let's consider who the Zionists and anti-Zionists in Israel are.

In the Zionist category we find the majority of:
Israeli Christians
Israeli non-Muslim Arabs
Israeli Messianic Jews
Israeli Torah Jews
Israeli secular Jews
Israeli non-Muslims (of all other persuasions through well founded presumption)

In the Israelis on the anti-Zionist side we have:
Israeli Muslims

In other words, the 1400 year Islamic conquest of the world, that you support.

....... is to say that Yeshua is not telling the truth in Rev 12;9 and Jer 16;19-21. Everybody has got to come through the same gate Yeshua the CROSS!

Why cant you see this, at least debate fairly and confirm with the scriptures please. No one has the right to add or subract from the word of GOD not even the zionist rabbis who follow the talmud not the Torah.

It's interesting. The only Talmud thumpers I find are self-proclaimed Christians like David Duke and Ted Pike. Jews don't even consider it to be inspired. Consider what happened to Ted Pike and his wife.
Ted Pike: My Wife Died a Martyr for God and Freedom

This is just an example.
Here is an interesting picture given to me it helps me understand a little better.
Lets say you could go back in time to a slave ship.

Why go back in time? The folks that you support are making and trading slaves as I write:

[video=youtube;l1j8D1j9mEc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1j8D1j9mEc[/video]

You get on board and you have the key to set these slaves free.

The international community finally prevailed and thus Islamic countries "officially" banned slavery, however many still keep slaves, and they are just biding time, because slavery will always be Islamic. Slavery wasn't "officially" outlawed in Saudi Arabia and Yemen until 1962, UAE 1963, and Oman in 1970, and then in those countries, only because of outside pressure.

The problem is the slaves have been taught that the chains are for there protection so they dont drown.
What would you do to convince them you were trying to help.

I can tell you first hand what zionist jews think of christian zionists!!!!!!!!

The problem with bigotry is that it prevents bigots from viewing people in other than monolithic groups. Rendering them unable to grasp that the condition of people's hearts varies. Particularly those of the monolithic groups they wish to demonize. What might your "first hand" encounter, with those specific individuals you encountered, tell you about those individuals?

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

You would not like the truth. Guys like john hagee and perry stone and all the rest are puppets. Do you think the god of this world would allow some one to give you truth over his ownership of the networks. A kingdom divided an all you know the scriptures. That makes no sense does it.
You do not judge your fruit by how much money you have or how many seats are in your church.

Let's look at the fruit of the two opposing groups, detailed previously, that you and I support:
You the Islamic conquest of Israel.
Me the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination provided by the democracy of the Jewish State for Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims - where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth. Some fruit:

The Global Islamic population is approximately 1.5 billion, or about 25% of the world's population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat:
1999 - Ahmed Zewai

Economics: (zero)

Physics: (zero)

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar

Chemistry:
1999 - Ahmed Hassan Zewail

TOTAL 6 (with half of them for so-called "peace" even including one awarded to the terrorist Yasar Arafat!)

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.2% of the world's population, yet they compose 22% of all individual recipients of Nobel Prizes worldwide, between 1901 and 2009 including:

Literature: 10
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pa sternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace: 8
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics: 53
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phil lips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Joseph son
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics: 13
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Mil ton Friedman
1978 - Herb ert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine: 43
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herb ert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Ed elman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Ed ward B. Lewis

Chemistry: 24
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Herbert Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1998 - Walter Kohn
2004 - Avram Hershko, Aaron Ciechanover and Irwin Rose
2006 - Roger Kornberg

TOTAL: 151

How much blood do you require before you stand up and say something.

How much Islamic conquest should the world stomach, before standing up and saying something. Look what you and your ilk did to the Christians in Gaza by jerking the protections of the Israeli Jewish state out from under them:

"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law

"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians

Let alone what you did to non-Muslim Arabs: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"

Do you really think any non-Muslim would want to live in a Sharia law ruled, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising, slave making and trading, Christian and Jew persecuting and murdering, church and synagog burning, imperialistic Islamic slave state?

I love you brothers and sisters. This question is for all of you.
What corner stone will you use for the third temple. Please explain with scripture thank you.

No need to confuse the issue with Darby's 19th century eschatology. Jews began to be restored to their land long before Darby penned his doctrine, as Christians also had anticipated through prophecy, centuries before that restoration began.

“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious” - Isaac Newton

Jesus built our temple in three days, just like He said He could. There is no reason for a Christian to believe any further temples would be of the Lord. The restoration of the Jews to their land, however, is a physical matter of fact. All that's left if for us to choose whose side we want the Lord to find us on.

Keep this in mind GOD destroyed the temple 40 years latter just like HE said HE would. Blessings

Indeed He did.

 

[PeteWaldo]

It would also be a good exercise for us to list the non-Israeli Zionists and anti-Zionists, don't you think?

 

[wdeaton65]

There is no scripture any where that says Yeshua built our temole in three days if so show me HE would rise in 3 days and point in fact the HOLY SPIRIT was not given until 50 days after first fruits just like it says in Lev;23 practiced for 1,500 years
They will build th third temple just like Daniel said I choose Yeshua and love I will not be put into those chains again Pete.
What is the pupose of this land issue what is the goal, Psalms 122;6 has a different meaning to a zionist and a talmud following jew!! Jerusalem cant be made whole or complete without the temple who is going to sit in that temple Pete Why cant you see this at least give me scripture to back up the support of this behavior This is a counterfiet that will bring about the real end Psalms 2..... Read and explain thanks and I cant be an anti semite.

 

[PeteWaldo]

Why don't you try a point by point reply to the content of my reply to you rather than ignoring it?

There is no scripture any where that says Yeshua built our temole in three days if so show me ........

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

He built our temple in 3 days just as He promised He could, through His crucifixion death and resurrection.

Ephesians 2:19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

......... HE would rise in 3 days and point in fact the HOLY SPIRIT was not given until 50 days after first fruits just like it says in Lev;23 practiced for 1,500 years
They will build th third temple just like Daniel said I choose Yeshua and love I will not be put into those chains again Pete.
What is the pupose of this land issue what is the goal, .......

For the sake of YHWH's holy name. A fulfillment of prophecy so stunning that even "the heathen" should know He is Lord:

KJV Ezekiel 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These [are] the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

....... Psalms 122;6 has a different meaning to a zionist and a talmud following jew!! Jerusalem cant be made whole or complete without the temple .......

Men built a temple to Jupiter on the temple mount too. That doesn't mean it was of the Lord. Herod's temple was torn down every stone, illuminating the path to God in this new covenant era. That doesn't preclude some Jews that may remain sovereignly blinded to the Gospel may not have an ambition in doing so. It just wouldn't have any relevance.
The temple was built nearly 2,000 years ago through the ONE SACRIFICE FOREVER.

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

When Jesus ushered in our kingdom, in the 1st century.

...... who is going to sit in that temple Pete .......

Since Jesus' kingdom is not of this world, it seems it surely wouldn't be Him.

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

........ Why cant you see this at least give me scripture to back up the support of this behavior This is a counterfiet that will bring about the real end Psalms 2..... Read and explain thanks and I cant be an anti semite.

You choose the side of Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs. Is there something about that you don't understand? Why don't you try a substantive reply to my former post, and then tackle this one.

 

[wdeaton65]

Wow I just read through the post you address to me You are going to preach to me that the talmud is not what is practiced are you kidding me and you call me a muslim I will tell you this 9th comandment false witness repent Pete stop with the hate if you want I will start from Gen 1 and read it to you and show you everything is in the beginning IN HEBREW please test me on this then we will see who knows what. Or better yet get one of your zionist rabbis on here lets see. You acuse me falsely None of this google stuff either I will read right out of the Torah start with Gen 1 barasheet bara elohim at hash,shamiym wa,at ha,aryts. Why dont you tell all of us what this means please. You call me a muslim why? please they are going to build that third temple Pete show me in the scriptures where I or any other Christian is to help please show me one scripture.

 

[wdeaton65]

Ezk. 36 all ready happened babylon and the return they were all there they looked upon HIM who they pierced.
every other answer is taken out of contex
next stay off the google and keep up.

 

[wdeaton65]

still waiting stay off google and keep up you are teaching end time understanding and yet you know nothing of the beginning how is that come on lets get moving here you should be able to just breeze right through this with me.

 

[wdeaton65]

still waiting this should be childs play for you Pete

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ezk. 36 all ready happened babylon and the return they were all there they looked upon HIM who they pierced.
every other answer is taken out of contex
next stay off the google and keep up.

No. ex 36 has not happened yet.. things where said in that prophesy which HAVE NOT yet taken place.. so how can anyone say it is fulfilled? just because MAYBE a fe things happened? what about the rest? we ignore them?

 

[wdeaton65]

Lets just stick to what Pete is talking about and I dont mean all of Eze 36 just the end time gathering part

 

[wdeaton65]

still waiting how about just barasheet can you tell us what that means

 

[PeteWaldo]

Wow I just read through the post you address to me You are going to preach to me that the talmud is not what is practiced are you kidding me and you call me a muslim I will tell you this 9th comandment false witness ........

I suppose in order to rebuke me you would have to point out where I called you a Muslim, whether here or in reply to the PM you chose to send. If you can't, then you yourself have assumed the very role of that which you accuse.
I did point out that you choose the side of Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to Muhammad's followers. That's because there are only two sides. And I showed you what anti-Zionists accomplished for Christians of Gaza.
If you cannot point out where I called you a Muslim, you are the one who stands as the party that is bearing false witness.

........ repent Pete stop with the hate ..........

What hate? Pointing out that the false prophet Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel? Do I hate that? Of course I do. I'm a Christian. So you can consider me guilty as charged in that regard.

........ if you want I will start from Gen 1 ........

Do you understand why you haven't responded to replies to the replies you solicited? Why don't you start there?
Line by line. Point by point. Addressing the content.

........ and read it to you and show you everything is in the beginning IN HEBREW please test me on this then we will see who knows what. Or better yet get one of your zionist rabbis on here lets see. You acuse me falsely None of this google stuff either I will read right out of the Torah start with Gen 1 barasheet bara elohim at hash,shamiym wa,at ha,aryts. Why dont you tell all of us what this means please. You call me a muslim why?

Even repeating it. You have assigned yourself the task of showing us where, or stand as a false witness.

please they are going to build that third temple Pete show me in the scriptures where I or any other Christian is to help please show me one scripture.

So you didn't read either my first or my second reply to you? You are, however, offering insight as to what happens to someone who refuses to face objective reality. Why don't you try rereading the post and show us where I did anything but point out that any temple after the one Jesus built for us would be irrelevant.
Better yet, please take both posts, and take item by item, and provide a substantive response to the content.
After you show us where I called you a Muslim. If you are going to suggest it happened in the dark alley of PM that you chose, I will copy and paste your PMs as well as my replies. Please DO NOT clutter my mailbox with any more dark alley messaging, as your false accusation aptly demonstrates, that any further exchange needs to be done in front of witnesses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets just stick to what Pete is talking about and I dont mean all of Eze 36 just the end time gathering part

36 and 37 go together.. and none of it has happened yet..

it was not even speaking of babylon, non of the things which were said to happen to them happened during babylons reign.