desperate mom...please help!!!!!!

homwardbound · Apr 13, 2013

I am an exalcoholic and an ex druggie, I had a Sister that died on an overdose at 18 when I was 14. Been here done this and I needed to see for me myself and be healed not by Family, friends or counselors by God and God only. And God did do this back when I was 27 I was delivered from these bondages.
I also have a niece that was addicted to and was not kicked out and Mom felt sorry for her kept trying to love her as you have mentioned to do, but it only caused enablement to continue on because she was able to get away with what she was dong and getting oh poor girl, which was just giving her attention that just enabled her to continue on to even worse behavior
My wife and I got her by the asking of her MOM and we said to Mom only if you back out completely. So we took her in and disciplined her, I took her over my knee, locked her in and told her no more of this. Well of coarse she rebelled and wanted out so we let her go and supported Mom not to let her back in, no more enabling, time for tough love
Well not long after she was in a Motel calling her Mom and saying she was going to kill herself, My wife got a call from Mom and we said no leave it alone and have here call us. She did and she was told okay then do you have everything in order? Are you ready to meet your maker? What if you are not successful in this attempt and you turn out to be a vegetable? Of coarse she was stunned what you are not going to rush over here and save me? No because God is the only one that could do this save you
Then it was said tell you what you think about all I just said and if you decide not to kill yourself then you call me in the morning and we will get you into a shelter
She called she got into a shelter is clean and sober it has been at least 15 years ago
Now she told us that we are the only ones that she never ripped off, and we asked why is that and she said you two were the only ones that ever loved me, We said how is that when we spanked you and locked you in, She said no one had ever done that during her whole growing up time
Spare the rod spoil the child. This situation is going to take the discernment of God period and who knows somehow it will work out, and it is good for this man to be put out for a little while that he can be destroyed and turn to God to be saved as waht Paul said to the crointhians in 1 Cor. Chapter 5, but as you said we still need to be available for this person to know that he is loved, discipline hurts but it is for our good. If we weren't disciplined then we do not belong to God. And I am sure just like it hurts Mom to do what she has done. It hurts God as well anytime he disciplines us too, but we need to realise it is for our good to be disciplined kicked out and so on and so forth.

hattiebod · Apr 13, 2013

Outsider said:

You know what Hattiebod, you're right. The only thing I disagree with is how you believe the mother should remove herself completely.
But i do not think she says this...she does not elaborate on the contact levels she has or intends to have or hopes to have...
Kicking her son out of the house probably wasn't a bad thing, and she might have to leave him be for a while. But she should try to make amends and find solutions to his problems.
I know this sounds so harsh but the old adage 'be cruel to be kind' does fit in this case perhaps. I think you assume she has amends to make....also, it is not her role to find solutions to his problems. Yes, she could but unless they come from him they will mean nothing. He needs to be fully engaged and committed to his own recovery. His schedule, his plan. Thats the only way.
Obviously she shouldn't neglect her own children, and at this point in time, they should come first.
I do not think we can jump to the conclusion she is neglecting her children, in fact by getting him out the house, she could be seen as protecting her children. Protecting the ones remaining in the house and ultimately giving her addicted son a hope of recovery.
But OP needs to try and figure out where things went wrong and she at least needs to figure out what is bothering her son and how she can help.
I think that is what she is doing, she has exhausted other options perhaps, now this is her last chance but again, it is not her job to figure out what went wrong. No healing of the family relationships can occur until he is sober and willing. Sounds like that is not the case right now.
I know it's not simple, but it's better than "Kick him out and let him be and hope he gets better."
Asking him to leave the family home, where he obviously does not want to be, where he cannot be respectful or follow the rules, is his choice. He will maybe now get the help he needs, as I said, free from family emotion.
In ways, there's always a level of letting your children be and hoping they do fine, but sometimes children need their parent's support, they need their parents to make them feel like they have the strength to overcome their problems. I think when a parent asks their child to leave their home...things have usually broken down pretty badly...and communication between the family is no longer productive. Also, maybe the parents strength is exhausted and professional help is needed.
I know I sound like I support the whole "helicopter" parent ordeal, I don't. I just believe family should always try to make amends and help one another when possible. I wouldn't be surprised if OP messed up along the lines with her parenting and if that's the crux of the issue.

I work with addicts and as a result often (but not always of course) of addictions, the homeless. Let me inform you, that 'bad parenting' is NOT the cause of those who choose to be addicts being addicts. In some cases, it can be a contributing factor, however millions of young people have horrendous childhoods and do not seek their healing in drugs & alcohol. Its very important to be very cautious (and knowledgeable) when making such comments on such a sensitive issue. I bet this mother is feeling guilty enough already without us all adding to it here. God Bless you, <><

Outsider · Apr 13, 2013

homwardbound said:

Don't get me wrong, and I regret not being clear, but sometimes you do need to allow yourself and your family to be distanced physically. I think OP kicking her son out of the house may have possibly been the right choice. But here's why I posted the way I did.

When I read the responses, everyone said, "leave him be and pray." Someone told her to disown him! They didn't tell her to be there for him when he needed it, they said she should let him hit rock bottom.

You said that the only person who can help addicts is God, but even in your story, your family had your niece's back. You were all there for her. You didn't just boot her on the road and prayed, you took action. God may have helped, but give yourself some credit.

But the fact your niece became addicted in the first place is of grave concern. She may have been thankful she had been spanked as a child, but I know you can raise children to behave without spanking them. But, that's neither here nor there at the moment.

I just disagree with the people here who wanted OP to forget about her son.

ladylynn · Apr 13, 2013

Such wonderful people sharing their own heart experiences here. I add my my heart felt prayer too. There is no sin so horrid that God will not forgive.

Hebrews 2:6...What is man that You are mindful of him., or the son of man that You graciouisly and helpfully care for and visit and look after him?" He is looking after you bubu-"mom" as you pray for your son and your family.

It is always difficult to face problems head on and that is what you are doing. Not easy at all and hurts to the bone. Hold tight on to Jesus hand. He will get you through.

Outsider · Apr 13, 2013

I apologize for double posting.

"I know this sounds so harsh but the old adage 'be cruel to be kind' does fit in this case perhaps. I think you assume she has amends to make....also, it is not her role to find solutions to his problems. Yes, she could but unless they come from him they will mean nothing. He needs to be fully engaged and committed to his own recovery. His schedule, his plan. Thats the only way."

At this point in time, it is primarily his responsibility. However, it's important that OP understands that she'll have to take action if she wants to help him change. If she doesn't want to help him, then I guess there's nothing I can say.

"I do not think we can jump to the conclusion she is neglecting her children, in fact by getting him out the house, she could be seen as protecting her children. Protecting the ones remaining in the house and ultimately giving her addicted son a hope of recovery."

Sorry, I should have said "her other children". I agree with you on this one.
"I think that is what she is doing, she has exhausted other options perhaps, now this is her last chance but again, it is not her job to figure out what went wrong. No healing of the family relationships can occur until he is sober and willing. Sounds like that is not the case right now."

When people use drugs to escape their problems, I believe fixing their problems is the way to help them sober up. Maybe not always, but sometimes.
"Asking him to leave the family home, where he obviously does not want to be, where he cannot be respectful or follow the rules, is his choice. He will maybe now get the help he needs, as I said, free from family emotion. "

You might actually be right here. But it's a very risky maneuver.He may find help, or he may not. Even if the mother decides not to talk to him for a week, she should try to talk to him at least let him know she'll help him if he needs it.
"Also, maybe the parents strength is exhausted and professional help is needed."

I wish the other people who responded suggested professional help.

I disagree. I believe bad parenting is most often the cause for drug use abuse. Obviously there are other factors and sometimes children get out of hand despite the parents doing everything right. Often when teenagers drink, parents will scold their children. Those children learn to sneak out of the house to party at their friends where they will get drunk. However, it is sometimes best to simply sit down and teach your child how to drink responsibly, rather than withhold the alcohol from them completely. (obviously I'm referring to teenagers here).

Part of parenting is raising your children so they can learn how to make the right decisions as adults. Often, mental issues in adults come from neglect during their childhood. Obviously we must hold people accountable for their own actions, but we can't ignore the fact that parenting might play a role in misbehavior. If OP realizes she messed up along the lines, she can make amends. If she didn't mess up and her child is an alcoholic due to other circumstances, then she needs to do what she can to figure out the problem, if she wishes to get involved in helping him.

Ariel82 · Apr 13, 2013

what is the problem?

HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH HIS AUNT!

anyone wonder how long that has been going on?

more than 3 years?

I think she did right by kicking out a 21 year old rebellious, alcoholic drug addicted person from influencing her younger children, but he probably needs counseling and the whole issue with the aunt is just awful.

You don't need to try and "earn" his love but set firm boundaries because love is more than just giving the other person everything they want.

Personally I would pray and look closely at the influences of the children still under your care and make sure your older son isn't feeding drugs to your younger ones. I've heard of kids who became addicted by following the example of their older siblings.

piper27 · Apr 13, 2013

I disagree. I believe bad parenting is most often the cause for drug use abuse. Obviously there are other factors and sometimes children get out of hand despite the parents doing everything right. Often when teenagers drink, parents will scold their children. Those children learn to sneak out of the house to party at their friends where they will get drunk. However, it is sometimes best to simply sit down and teach your child how to drink responsibly, rather than withhold the alcohol from them completely. (obviously I'm referring to teenagers here).

Part of parenting is raising your children so they can learn how to make the right decisions as adults. Often, mental issues in adults come from neglect during their childhood. Obviously we must hold people accountable for their own actions, but we can't ignore the fact that parenting might play a role in misbehavior. If OP realizes she messed up along the lines, she can make amends. If she didn't mess up and her child is an alcoholic due to other circumstances, then she needs to do what she can to figure out the problem, if she wishes to get involved in helping him.[/QUOTE]

Just like God gave us free will, we have 'choices'. The OP says her child is 21. He is an adult. You cannot spend your whole life blaming your parents for what they did or didn't do. As a parent, I also cannot live under the condemnation thinking everything is MY fault, this only continues the cycle of co-dependency. Who jumps out of that cycle first?? It seems in this case, regardless of history and previous problems, the mother is choosing to make a change, and do her part of ending the cycle.

Your posts speak of an enabler, thinking you can fix someones elses problems.
While its true there are probably loads of underlying issues with this young man, fixing relational issues will ultimately be his decision when and if he is ever able. Before that can occure, both of them need a lot of healing. It is not her job to 'fix' him or his problems, it is her role to love him with firm boundries. Sending him out is a boundry she is setting.

An effective prayer would be for God to shed His light mightily upon this young man and direct his path to caring individuals that know how to see through the cruelty of addiction, and that he has the courage to receive it. Another prayer would be to pray for his precious mother who's heart is aching beyond belief. YOu can never know the pain and anguish addiction brings to a family unless you experience it.
There is no easy answer; there are a lot of tears shed along the way.
This mother also has the responsibility of protecting her younger children. She must do that.

Blessings to the OP - I will be praying for you; this is not an easy road to travel.

livingepistle · Apr 13, 2013

This is a demonic attack against you and your family. You were correct for "kicking him out of the house". Jesus died for all sin and we are not addressing that issue first but the safety of you and your children. The fact that your son is engaged in an incestuous relationship with his aunt tells you that he is not in his right senses. Incest is a very serious spiritual matter. It is in opposition to the very foundation of God's moral laws for human morality and exposes how depraved both parties are; the nephew and aunt, in this situation. They are both under negative influences that have deceived them into believing there is nothing wrong with incest.

You legally are not responsible for him and spiritually neither. Do not allow your nurturing instincts to cloud your reasoning; know that you made the correct decision.

The spiritual sides of things intertwine with the seduction and lust. Satan has used the drugs and alcohol as a tool to enter into your son's troubled soul. I am not a psychologist or a professional analyst of human behavior but I do know that the root cause is Satan. There is even the possibility that all his turmoil directly connect to abuse earlier in his life. Prayer then counseling can help him but not at the sacrifice of you and his siblings.

An acquaintance was attempting to introduce his younger siblings to drugs. When his father caught him, he too threw his son out. He was angry and the father took the same position as yourself to protect the family; the father is a Christian and my pastor who has since gone to be with the Lord. This was in past years but Satan uses the same tactics whenever and with whom it can. So you are not alone in this fight, others are under attack and we will fight with you in this spiritual battle that you are engaged to protect your family and save the 21 year old son.
I will pray that the Lord remove this satanic influence from your home and restore peace: That Jesus binds satan and rebuke all demonic influences over your son. That He rewards the aunt according to her works--In the name of Jesus. That he protects you and your children from physical and mental abuse. And most importantly, that the Lord saves every soul that is being influenced or remove them safely away from your family. Be strong in the Lord. I am praying with you.

You are the victim here and you and children need the protection. The Lord is with you.
Scriptures in Your Favor:
Ephesians 6:2
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)
Proverbs 20:20
If one curses his father or his mother, his lamp will be put out in utter darkness.
Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Of course we do not put anyone to death but the focus is on "his blood is upon him." and putting your son out of the house as stated in the book of Deuteronomy and seeking counseling or the help of professional (s). He is responsible for his actions against you and sleeping with his aunt, which is the root cause of the problems; in my opinion. Seek professional counseling for him and do not attempt to handle this situation alone.

Praying For You,
Living Epistle

J-Kay · Apr 13, 2013

After my daughter died, it was one year of questions to God,
'did we do the right thing by our daughter ?' There is far too
much to the story to share. But the answer God gave me for my
daughter was.... " If we had brought her into our home she would
have been depending upon us." God said, "the way it was to be,
is she had to learn to depend upon Him, to know what He could
do for her." That was like a ton of weight off my shoulders. Do
I still question was there something more I could have done ? I
certainly do. But it is past. She was an adult, yet child in some
ways. I will always think of her as my daughter ( child ). I pray
any parent that has to practice tough love will know the peace of
God and His guidance. When we seek Him and His will, He is
faithful to show us in His time. ~ Amen ....

J-Kay · Apr 13, 2013

I can't believe bad parenting is cause of every child becoming drug user.
Not all people have drugs in the home. Nor do they have alcohol. My
daughter was liking alcohol when we had no idea she was able to get it.
I feel sorry for the parent who is blamed for their child abusing drugs
or alcohol.
I have 3 Children. I felt guilty, too. I was sure I did something wrong
that my daughter loved alcohol. After she died, my two living adult
children said, look at us. We were raised in same home. We don't drink,
we don't do drugs. One is an Engineer, father of three sons...his family
all Christians. My living daughter, is married to a Youth Pastor, with
a child of their own, being raised in Christian home. That is not to say
they are perfect, but they were trying to tell me.. STOP IT !!! Stop thinking
you could stop her. Please don't blame the parents. Unless that parent
is doing drugs and alcohol too, then go ahead. Offer to pray for her and
have compassion. When I see in news a young person has died from drug
overdose or even died in a manner that is not normal, I remind myself,
That was some ones child. Let's stop and think ... and pray... until we have
walked in anothers shoes we can't really know what they should do.

Outsider · Apr 13, 2013

An enabler lets someone continue on their path and hopes they get better. I suggest the mother try to fix the problem because she wants her son to be happy, not abandon her son because she wants herself to be happy. Obviously her son has to be willing to change, but we need to know what's driving him to act the way he is. We don't know, so it's up to the mother to figure out if she wants to play an active role in redirecting her son to live a better life.

Some people here have suggested counseling. If she can convince her son to go to counseling, then that's actually a great idea. It's better than the "boot and forget" method so many cling onto.

Kicking someone out of your house can work, but it can also lead to people indulging even more in their bad habits. The question isn't whether the mother should blame herself or not. The question is, what can the mother do to help her son?

J-Kay said:

I sincerely do hope I'll never have to go through the pain you had to go through. To experience the loss of your own child, it's truly the last thing anyone wants to go through.

Tough love isn't a solution that always works. Parents need to know when it's appropriate to be tough, and when they need to be forgiving and understanding. Most of the people in this thread are saying, "Be tough. If it works, you did right. If it doesn't work, it's his fault."

J-Kay, I'm sure you only did what you thought was best for your daughter. You shouldn't beat yourself up over what has happened, and I'm glad you were able to find peace. However, when you see someone who's in a similar position as you, don't tell them to let their children go and for them to accept whatever happens. You should try to think of ways in which other parents can reconnect with their children and find a solution to their problems so they don't have to suffer the same way you did.

Even if the parent isn't at fault for their child's behavior, it's asinine to believe there's nothing a parent can do.

homwardbound · Apr 14, 2013

Outsider said:

Thank You for communicating, this to me, all of us here I see you care and you see we do to, well maybe not everyone there are those that just care for self and self alone acting as if they care for others in order to get something they want, regardless though God knows who they are or are not and as long as we the beleivers are available for God to use us like we use a water glass to get a drink, then God will come through everytime, the problem is for me you mentioned I should yake some credit.
No SIR NO WAY. I am none other than a vessel available to be used by God, I am alive in God by the resurrection of Christ at the cross, this happened after I agreed with God and thanked God that at the cross is where I was forgiven 100% a long with the rest of the world, I then asked for life the born again life and God raised me to new life in the Spirit of God just as he did With Christ raised him back to life
So now today we worship
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
John 4:24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
John 14:17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
John 16:13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The above was not only to the apostles it is to us the believers as well and this is how we the believers operate each and every day.
I hope this helps in anyones walk here to just trust no matter what and learn to listen to Fatherr in us through the Holy Ghost that he put in us the very first dayof beleif, so now believe and accept wahtever the outcome and move forward in LOVE God's type found in 1Cor.13

Outsider · Apr 14, 2013

The reason I believe you should give yourself some credit is because you're the one who chose to act, be it by God's will. To say you did nothing, and the lord did everything, would suggest you didn't actually choose to do what was right, but instead God simply used you. If God uses people in such way, then there is no such thing as free will. If a person must choose to believe in God, then must he also choose to act in God's name as well?

I know it sounds like I'm telling you to take credit away from God, but taking some of the credit would show that it was you who decided to act in the name of God, not God who decided for you to act in the name of God. Perhaps this is my outlook because I was taught that for God to help an individual, the individual must meet God half way.

But, regardless of our disagreement, what's important is for us to show our love and help our friends and family in any way possible. As disheartened as I was when I originally posted, I'm glad to have talked to you and hattie. The two of you have shown me that not everyone here believes they should sit back and let God do all the work while they, themselves, do nothing.

homwardbound · Apr 14, 2013

J-Kay said:

I am the youngest in my Family of five and Sue my Sister who died of an overdose at 18 I was 14. My Parents were great parents, with flaws as we all have had and have learned from and grow in God's grace
My Parents for the first time I ahd ever seen growing up blamed each other for Sue's death, you should of no you should of
I walked in on them doing this and said hey both of you Sue made her choice, you both did the best you both knew how, and nothing can anyone of us to do to change what is. It is done quit blaming each other and they understood even though it stayed haunting my Dad and he died three years later, he just could not get over it. He could not move on, he died when I was 17. Now in all that has happened I have choices I can learn from all that has happened or I can crawl in a hole and die as my Dad did in guilt.
A famous weapon of and from the Devil and is why christ came to remove the stress by taking away the punishment of Sin and once one sees this then recieve new life in the Spirit of God by the resurrection.
My Sister did choose God before the death came had repented had quit the drugs, but the do gooders refused to accept her when she did quit, qwhich only through her into a frenzy of not being accepted and never got the chance to see this
Ephesians 1:6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
She believed and she is and was accepted in God Christ. It is all about the cross where everything we need for life and Godliness is at

hattiebod · Apr 14, 2013

homwardbound said:

I am the youngest in my Family of five and Sue my Sister who died of an overdose at 18 I was 14. My Parents were great parents, with flaws as we all have had and have learned from and grow in God's grace
My Parents for the first time I ahd ever seen growing up blamed each other for Sue's death, you should of no you should of
I walked in on them doing this and said hey both of you Sue made her choice, you both did the best you both knew how, and nothing can anyone of us to do to change what is. It is done quit blaming each other and they understood even though it stayed haunting my Dad and he died three years later, he just could not get over it. He could not move on, he died when I was 17. Now in all that has happened I have choices I can learn from all that has happened or I can crawl in a hole and die as my Dad did in guilt.
A famous weapon of and from the Devil and is why christ came to remove the stress by taking away the punishment of Sin and once one sees this then recieve new life in the Spirit of God by the resurrection.
My Sister did choose God before the death came had repented had quit the drugs, but the do gooders refused to accept her when she did quit, qwhich only through her into a frenzy of not being accepted and never got the chance to see this
Ephesians 1:6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
She believed and she is and was accepted in God Christ. It is all about the cross where everything we need for life and Godliness is at

I just wanted to say how I was moved by the stories on this thread. How so many suffer where drugs and alcohol enter a family, its not just the addict who is affected. God Bless you all for sharing your stories, and God Bless you for your faith, I thank Him for drawing you, His precious, precious most loved children close and giving you such powerful testimony's. My thoughts and prayers are with you all. <><

homwardbound · Apr 14, 2013

Outsider said:

Outsider, you are back and forth, you are not sure in what to do, and going back and forth causes doubt and whether you are aware of this or not. It is not from God to ride the fence, well maybe do this or that. The only consistancy you have made is do not disown the son and that is 100% excellent, and kicking him out does not say I do not love him it says more I do love you and care so much that you have to be destroyed and come back as the prodical Son did showing true repentance as the prodical Son did. The father never quit loving the Son and a little but differant Scenario here, where Mom had no choice but to put him out and either the Son flies or dies a hard case but otherwise a worse case to stay. I will not tolerate anyone that does not show me compassion with respect to the rules of my house. And I have had a home Church. If there are no rules and not enforced, one bad apple spoils the whole barrel period
Thanks Mom for your trust in God for your protecting the rest of your Family and standing up for what is right

vandy · Apr 14, 2013

Christ love u

J-Kay · Apr 14, 2013

Outsider said:

My daughter was not kicked out of home. She married after graduating and met her
husband when she was working at a bank. She had two children. She allowed the alcohol
and idea of independence lead her on a path that caused divorce, loss of children to their
father. It was then she began a path that led her into rehab twice. She tried to stay clean,
but did fall back. She chose to live independently. We loved her and tried to keep her a
part of family holidays, etc. She was approx 42 when she saw the error of her ways and
realized she had lost so much. We were in process of helping her get dental work done so
she could get her life back. But, it was not to be. She was taken to visit a friend and the person
had whiskey and she drank it after not having drank for a month. She was taken home, left
In vehicle and froze to death in Jan. '07. She was age 45. So please know, she was not ever
at anytime treated like an outsider. We had to love her because we did love her. She never
asked to come home. We miss her but we know her days of hell on earth are over. I just went
through a week of sobbing when I found a letter she had written me in 2002. She said ...
"Mom I know God has saved my soul. " Oh what a beautiful girl she was... It was as if she
was here talking to me.. ( No I do not believe she was )..... It was the emotional part.
Sorry for the misunderstanding...

J-Kay · Apr 14, 2013

OUTSIDER : Please tell me where I told this mother to put her child out ? J-Kay

livingepistle · Apr 14, 2013

Outsider, these are good and honorable values to consider and Biblical. I respectfully would like to append these suggestions with the following comments that I believe should be implemented first: Considerations and appropriate accommodations made for the victims; after death or permanent physical/psychological damage it will be too late.
The son is under the influence of drugs, alcohol, and incest, which are mental and physically devastating effects and affects that alter sane reasoning. Many news reports serve as a reminder of how good intentions go awry. Case studies prove that in many cases the authorities find the entire family murdered and the guilty committing suicide. Until interventions can be placed, the mom should protect her other children and herself "FIRST". Even if there is guilt on all parties involved, who cares: the 21 year old son is committing the greater threat and potential for physical harm.

This situation requires removing the threat before there can be any restitution or reconciliation. Clearly this mom is in fear for her safety and that of her other children with a desperate plea for advise on how to save them all. The son is 21, not a child, he should act as an adult before he can be treated as an adult. He is making a conscience decision to stay in an incestuous affair. Why? The answer is simple, outside influences and a personal weakness to the relationship. Where is the aunt in this situation; she is guilt also?

Why are victims in this society constantly being placed in a position (whether in the minds of the people doing the judging or a judge in a court system) to make concessions for the guilty?

desperate mom...please help!!!!!!

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