The Return of Jews to Israel

PeteWaldo · Apr 17, 2013

It advances the Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to Muhammad's followers, and the resulting dhimmitude. Here is the fruit of anti-Zionism from the removal of the protection of the democracy of the Israeli Jewish state from Christians in Gaza:

From WND (please read the full article at the link): "'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":

"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."

"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."

From WND "Christians warned: Accept Islamic law"

Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."

The militant leader said Christians in Gaza who engage in "missionary activity" will be "dealt with harshly."

"Jihadia Salafiya and other Islamic movements will ensure Christian schools and institutions show publicly what they are teaching to be sure they are not carrying out missionary activity. No more alcohol on the streets. All women, including non-Muslims, need to understand they must be covered at all times while in public," Abu Asqer told WND.

"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza," he said.

Abu Saqer said Hamas "must work to impose an Islamic rule or it will lose the authority it has and the will of the people."

"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61666-mark-beast-4.html#post994876

Here is who anti-Zionists are, broken down by category:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301

Here is what it advances:

[video=youtube;nhbHVEGnYD8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8[/video]

tribesman said:

The Return of Jews to Israel

doulos · Apr 17, 2013

zone said:

And once again Zone resorts to lying about what others say. LOL and then in the very next post says this;

zone said:

To claim Pete teaches dual covenant theology as you define it is an unsuportable lie!

Hasn’t Pete espoused the view that regardless of whether one is an Old Testament saint or a New Testament saint the only way to see the kingdom of God is through the shed blood of Christ and that no one has ever been saved by following the law?

No one pre or post crucifixion has ever been saved by the law, it has always (from Adam until the Lord’s return) been about faith in Christ not adherence to the law. To say that one who espouses that agrees and teaches dual covenant theology as your definition describes is nothing more then an outright lie!

Show us the post# and thread where Pete said a Jew could be saved per your definition of dual covenant theology. Just because you say that is what he teaches doesn’t make it true, unless you can show us where he teaches “that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses”. Instead he teaches they are saved by having faith in Christ, just as Abraham, Moses, you, Pete and I are.

In another thread (located @ http://christianchat.com/christian-...p-new-understanding-physics-3.html#post990102 ) you said:

We understand you are practiced in the art of decieving the masses into following the politically correct view the media promotes. But that is no excuse to lie about what others say in an attempt to defend your doctrine and discredit their view. This is a bible discussion forum where truth is the standard, not some job where you get paid to misrepresent the truth in order to promote a fallacy.

So whats changed aren’t you still practicing the art of deception to make things look like something they aren’t? Isn’t that exactly what you do when you say Pete teaches dual covenant theology per the defintion you provide?

Really? Then why do you continue resorting to lying about what others teach? Why do you falsely claim that he teaches “that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the everlasting covenant” when he says no can or could ever be saved by simply keeping the law of Moses?

Before you can tell the truth you have to understand what truth is. Saying some one teaches “that Jews may simply keep the Law of Moses, because of the "everlasting covenant” when they don’t say or teach that is a lie. Now in the interest of truth would you like to retract your statement? Or will you continue to try to justify the lie you have promoted by claiming he teaches dual covenant theology even though he teaches no one can, nor ever was saved by keeping the law?

zone · Apr 17, 2013

tribesman said:

LOL!

for sure.

they call them The Kings of the Jews.

"antisemitism" is nothing more than psychological warfare to silence opposition and investigation into the Rothschilds (Kings of the Jews).

they use it to manipulate the jews themselves. works like a charm.

[video=youtube;D0kWAqZxJVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE[/video]

ANTISEMITISM IS A TRICK - WE ALWAYS USE IT

the recipe for our War on Terror came right from that cauldron.

you got a few non-israelite converts to Talmudic Judaism, psychopaths pulling the strings; throw in a few clever devices...mold these weirdo sects in Christianity - PRESTO! mezmerized.

all blabbering like Pamela Geller.

meanwhile having made an idol of a religion which worships SATAN.

James 5
1Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. 4Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.

ah well....my breakfast is ready.

ttyl

wdeaton65 · Apr 17, 2013

Doulos do you even know what the law is that Paul is talking about?

PeteWaldo · Apr 17, 2013

doulos said:

I am hoping Abiding will return to the question I answered and asked him here:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-14.html#post996180

zone · Apr 17, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

A FIVE YEAR OLD KNOWS THE ARAB SPRING WASNT ARAB ANYTHING....

ask jews who have no quack-talmudic vested interest in Greater Israel.

Aaron Klein- Soros ARAB SPRING

Democrat operative mobilizes Occupy protesters. Co-director of Soros-funded group declares movement ‘unstoppable’

Posted on November 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM EST

Soros group behind Occupy since onset

Hickey himself also co-founded the Soros-funded Economic Policy Institute, which was reportedly heavily involved in crafting the foundations for President Obama’s health-care law.

CAF, meanwhile, has been funded by Soros’ Open Society Institute as well as by the Soros-funded Tides Center, which channels funding to hundreds of progressive and far-left groups.

Tides has been connected to the Occupy movement since its beginning.

Another grantee of Tides is Adbusters magazine, which is reported to have come up with the Occupy Wall Street idea after Arab Spring protests toppled governments in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia. The Adbusters website serves as a central hub for Occupy’s planning.

seriously....duh

Abiding · Apr 17, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

No. I believe the old covenant waxed away just like scripture says. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant.

Now please indulge me with a straight forward answer to a question (unlike the other posters in here who have been exposed and left unable to reply). Do you believe that a remote tribesman that was never brought the Gospel, or a mentally retarded person, or even someone that is too young to understand the Gospel, would be condemned to hell in the event of their death, because they have not been born again?

No i dont. But dont say this is a simple and straightforward question.

doulos · Apr 17, 2013

Abiding said:

Did he say the question was a simple straight forward question? Or did he ask for a simple straight forward answer? There is a differnece between asking for a simple straight forward answer to a question and saying that the question is simple and straight forward.

So if you "believe that a remote tribesman that was never brought the Gospel, or a mentally retarded person, or even someone that is too young to understand the Gospel" doesn't go to hell becuase they died without hearing the gospel, what happens to them? If they don't go to hell, do they go to heaven?

zone · Apr 17, 2013

doulos said:

lol doulos

i know you wont apologize or correct your gaga.
but ill help Pete try to twist his way out of this....

HEY PETE:

have you accused myself and others derisively of being:

punitive supersessionists

yes or no dear

this should be fairly straightfoward.

Supersessionism, fulfillment theology, and replacement theology are terms for the biblical interpretation that the New Covenant supersedes or replaces the Mosaic Covenant,[1][2] the latter thus also referred to as the Old Covenant.

The terms do not appear in the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, however, the view they cover is considered part of most traditional Christian views of the Old Covenant, viewing the Christian Church as the inheritor of the promises made with the children of Israel.[3][4]

This view contrasts with the minority views of dual-covenant theology on the one side and abrogation of Old Covenant laws on the other.

ill try to make it really easy for Ellis...Dolous..Pete or anyone else.

is Supersessionism Biblically correct.

yes. or no.

as for your cutsie special term punitive supersessionism...uh....like what - ahhahahahaaa......mkay.

Definition of PUNITIVE
: inflicting, involving, or aiming at punishment <severe punitive measures>

lets see what it looks like in your nutty world:

severe punitive measures + the New Covenant supersedes or replaces the Mosaic Covenant.

PLEASE TRANSLATE.
do not understand heretical blah blah

Abiding · Apr 17, 2013

doulos said:

Did he say the question was a simple straight forward question? Or did he ask for a simple straight forward answer? There is a differnece between asking for a simple straight forward answer to a question and saying that the question is simple and straight forward.

So if you "believe that a remote tribesman that was never brought the Gospel, or a mentally retarded person, or even someone that is too young to understand the Gospel" doesn't go to hell becuase they died without hearing the gospel, what happens to them? If they don't go to hell, do they go to heaven?

I think Romans 2 would more than cover it.
Why are you drilling me?

zone · Apr 17, 2013

doulos said:

since im not really talking to YOU. and it appears poor pete cant cope on his own.

ill ask YOU.

do Jews have to acknowledge the very specific Jesus of Nazareth of The Bible to be saved.

or can they just have a so-called contrite heart and hope for some other messiah. like your buddy Ellis said.

Irgun Terrorist Begins parents singing as they got gunned down...oh how we love messiah...even though they cursed Jesus of Nazareth.

ya or nah easy...just answer. or not.

your junk is all over the forum

are Jews Faithful Old Testament Winkeskins who God blinded, and preserved them in unbelief so He would have a Jewish Olive Tree Witness in the so-called Christian Era.

*puke* just rank heresy.

zone · Apr 17, 2013

PeteWaldo said:

ill post on what religious jews believe.

later.
and you can try to refute it.

and we will see an EPIC fail. because i`ll quote strictly from Judaic sources.

and you will dumpster dive at ADL and WND and such.

my breakfast is cold.

answer my posts to date please.

all of them

(you cant)

and we have WW2 to talk about....and you have some explaining to do perhaps.

PeteWaldo · Apr 17, 2013

Abiding said:

Yes, sorry and I couldn't agree more that this is not a simple and straightforward question, but I suspected we could begin on that note of agreement. Here is in part why believe God doesn't punish the ignorant:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Now what about a Jew that lived in northern Europe in the 2nd century, that never heard the Gospel? Do you believe he might have been saved because of his faith, as well as his ignorance, too?

PeteWaldo · Apr 17, 2013

Missed this one.

tribesman said:

As I pointed out on the following link, they are fellow fruit of the anti-Zionist tree. Helping to advance the Islamic conquest of Israel, and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs to Muhammad's followers.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301

Bookreader · Apr 17, 2013

You have opposing views. Fine.
Can you discuss or argue with graciousness as the Bible says we should?
No, it appears you cannot.

I must say that, having viewed this forum and others (in the past) with a more mixed group of people, there are a few people on this forum that claim to be Christians who do not behave as Paul suggested, as Jesus expects.

They sound like the Pharisees and Saducees arguing every sabbath with neither side realising they have taken their eye off God in order to concentrate on the perceived errors of others.
I am sometimes guilty of this. Some people on this forum seem always guilty of this.

We should all look ourselves and wonder whether we discuss in a loving and gracious manner.
After all, if we don't love our neighbour as ourselves how can we love God. Jesus made that pretty clear.
So please, do what I try to do (and sometimes I don't post what I've written), look at your posts and if you attack another individual or group ask yourself whether it helps, and in what words you would the person talked to read with interest rather than read and be aggravated.

These are a couple of examples - and I don't mean to single out one person but
I think Jesus said "blessed are the peace-makers", not "blessed are those that accuse others of worshiping Satan"

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

That counts for zionists, muslims, atheists, even persecutors of Christians - every human being.
If you don't love (and some folks certainly seem to post with something closer to hate) then you're not doing what Jesus expects of you. Just to get your viewpoint across. Is it worth it? That 'win' you get here on earth may cost you more than you expect come judgement day.

Please try to be nicer - this forum is starting to get to the point where I want to /ignore lots of people so I don't have to listen to the nastiness. Or just leave. And I don't want to do that

zone · Apr 17, 2013

Judaism Discovered: A Study of the Anti-Biblical Religion of Racism, Self-Worship, Superstition and Deceit

PARTIAL LIST OF CONTENTS: Rabbinic hatred for the am ha-aretz - 29 Hatred for heretics - 49 Censorship - 74 Judaism and America - 86 Decoy texts - 124 The Principal Sources of the Divine Law of the Religion of Orthodox Judaism - 126 The Rabbinic Eras - 134 Deceit Mechanism - 136 Hermeneutic of Concealment - 149 Power Over the Court System - 153 Non-negotiable Rabbinic Dogma - 161 The Tarnish on Hillel's Golden Rule - 163 Self-Perpetuating Legal and Textual Arcana - 168 Falsifying Scripture with Gezara Shava - 169 A Hedge Around the Law - 172 Permissible Dissimulation through Dispensational Revelation - 174 Self-Worship - 183 Masoretic Text Falsifies the Bible - 190 Tyranny and Priestcraft - 196 Hold Back Your Children from Higayon - 218 Dead Fetish Ritual: The Torah Scrolls - 223 The Talmud - A Lawyer's Book - 233 From Kabbalah to Aggadah: A Sexual Progression - 237 Pagan Reincarnation Dogma in Orthodox Judaism - 242 Hasidic Paganism - 254 Sex Magic Part II - 256 Goddess Worship in Judaism - 266 Kiddush Levanah: Worship of the Moon - 269 The Kabbalistic Renaissiance - 289 False Messiah Syndrome - 300 Inferiority of Gentiles - 358 Jesus in the Talmud - 384 Halacha of Mesirah - 426 Chabad-Lubavitch - 453 Critics of Judaism smeared as Esau - 463 Halachos of Manslaughter - 477 Divine Mandate to Kill Christians - 483 Maimonides and Islam - 491 Noachide Hoax - 496 Rabbinic Texts: Virulent Source of Anti-Black Racism - 505 Maimonides and Kabbalah - 514 Kaparot: The Sin Chicken - 516 The Falsified Schindler's List Quote - 526 Non-Jews are Supernal Refuse - 529 Cursing the homes and graves of gentiles - 534 Images and Talismans - 541 Ariel Toaff's suppressed history of ritual murder - 559 Martin Luther and Immanuel Kant - 636 Johann Reuchlin - 652 Sodomy in the Synagogue - 672 Molestation of Infants in the Circumcision Rite (Bris) - 678 A Homo-Erotic Culture - 684 Rabbinic Hatred of Women - 706 Phariseeism Begins in Menstrual Blood - 729 Inside the Menstrual Science of the Rabbis - 736 The X-Rated Talmud - 749 The Rabbinic Penchant for Spinning Tall Tales - 753 Judaism and Kabbalah: An Inseparable Unity - 766 Pulsa D'nura curse - 781 The Golem of Prague - 802 The Maharal Judah Loew and John Dee - 816 The Secret of Purim - 823 Who are the Jews Today? - 838 Judaic Opposition to Judaism - 848 Moses Hess and the Covert Relationship between Judaism, Zionism and Communism - 853 Judaism and Abortion - 878 Converts and Conversions - 894 Yom Tov: Holy Days and Observances - 912 The Hanukkah Hoax - 915 The Hebrew Calendar - 924 Pesach (Passover) - 926 The Ninth of Av (Tisha B'Av) - 932 Totalitarian Obligation to Obey the Rabbis in All Things - 935 Rosh Hashanah - 940 Shabbos - 942 Kosher (Kashrut) Food Racket - 955 Business Ethics - 963 Yom Kippur: The Kol Nidrei Nullification of Vows - 965 Temple Mount Kotel Hoax - 1014 The Talmudic Mentality - 1024 Russian Petition to Classify the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch as Hate Literature - 1027 Index - 1050

zone · Apr 17, 2013

Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded

In Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded Christian scholar Michael Hoffman documents his provocative thesis that Judaism is not the religion of the Old Testament, but the newly formalized belief system of the Pharisees, which arose in Babylon with the commitment of the formally oral traditions of the elders to writing, in the wake of the crucifixion of Israels Messiah and the destruction of the Temple.

Basing his findings on authoritative Judaic sources, Hoffman demonstrates that Judaism is a man-made religion of tradition and superstition, which represents the institutionalized nullification of Biblical law and doctrine.

Liberating the reader from the accumulated shackles of decades of misinformation, this book that shows that Judaism's god is not the God of Israel, but the strange gods of Talmud and Kabbalah, and the racial self-worship they inculcate.

Christian bookstores are packed with tomes purporting to unmask the religion of Islam, but not one slim volume will be found delving into the depravities of Orthodox Judaism.

Judaism's Strange Gods: Revised and Expanded: corrects that imbalance with its fidelity to Biblical truth and the historic witness of the Church.

Here is the best book on Judaism for educating people about the hidden side of this much glorified, but soul-destroying religion of warfare and deception. Hoffman deconstructs the facade of Judaism in clear and understandable writing, and does so charitably and without vitriol.

SAMPLE CONTENTS: Principle Sources of the Divine Law of the Religion of Orthodox Judaism; The Rabbinic Eras; Rabbinic Law vs. Biblical Law; Judaism's Attack On The Prophets And Patriarchs; The Talmud: Only a Record of Debates?; 'The Babylonian Talmud Represents God in the Flesh'; Judaism's Hermeneutic of Concealment in Theory and Practice; The Tarnish on Hillel's Golden Rule; A Gigantic Heap of Self-Perpetuating Legal and Textual Arcana; Falsifying Scripture with Gezera Shava; 'A Hedge Around the Law'; Loopholes And Escape Clauses; 'The Pious of the Nations' Loophole; Four Exegetical Categories: PaRDeS, Outright Lies and Deception; Permissible Categories of Lying; The Deceiver's Gloss on Exodus 23:7; Why Women Have Not Been Allowed to Study the Talmud; Bribery; Defrauding Workers; The Authority of the Talmud; The Inferiority of Gentiles; Gentile is not a Brother or a Neighbor; Jews May Kill Non-Jews; Torat Hamelech: Warrant For The Murder Of Gentiles; The Status of the Gentile in Jewish Law; Non-Jews are 'Supernal Refuse'; The Maimonidean Halachos of Manslaughter: 'Lifting and Lowering, Judaism Teaches: Abraham and Isaac were Tainted with Lust; Rabbinic Texts are a Virulent Source of Anti-Black Racism; Every Gentile's Mother, Daughter and Sister is NShGZ'; New World Order: U.S. Government Lays The Groundwork For Talmudic Courts; Christians in the Talmud; Escape Clauses and Loopholes Concerning the Rabbinic Ban on Churches; Talmud Citations Concerning Christianity; Balaam: The Talmud's Code Name for Jesus; Christianity Alleged to be a Form of Prostitution; Mary the Mother of Jesus as Sedata' (a promiscuous woman); Establishing a Legal Principle for Courtroom Entrapment of Christ and Christians; Pandera and Balaam: Jesus as a Bastard in the Talmud; Origen Contra the Antichrist Rabbinic Calumnies of Celsus; Anti-Goyimitic and Anti-Christian Hatred; Divine Mandate to Kill Jesus Christ and Christians; Judaism's Reincarnation Dogma;Star of Bohemia, Not David; Kaparot: The Sin Chicken; The X-Rated Talmud; Judaism and Menstruation; Judaism and Abortion; Converts and Conversions to Judaism; Yom Kippur and the Kol Nidrei Nullification of Vows; Judaism's Holy Days; Birkat HaMinim: The Curse on Christians; Child Molestation and Homosexuality; Glossary of terms; Index.

Bookreader · Apr 17, 2013

Wow Zone - this Jesus guy must have been horrible.

He was a Jew that followed the Law.

As did all the Apostles - even after the death of Christ. Though some food restrictions were lifted when dealing with gentiles.

Well you proved emphatically that my previous post was true

zone · Apr 17, 2013

concerning the subject at hand:

Re: The Return of Jews to Israel

my only concern, and always has been........that Christians have got to understand we have two groups of lost sinners, all alienated from God, at enmity with Him; hating Him and in desperate need of Jesus Christ.

as we all at one time were.

ALL persons not born from above through faith by the hearing of the Gospel of salvation accomplished by the Finished Work of Jesus Christ of Nazareth; Emmanuel....all...are lost and without hope in the world.

anyone not baptized into Christ while making some claim to the Holy Scriptures; making reference to them; paying lip service to them; using them as extra-texts for their own false religions is still dead in trespasses and sins.

both groups discussed in this thread need one thing ONLY from Christians - the Gospel of salvation for their eternal souls....and compassionate humanitarian care for their bodies and lives in the now - that's all.

not weapons; not support for war; not spiritual support for either false religion; no enabling as though somehow connected to the One True God; none of that. neither group is. neither group worships the True God.

it is NOT Christian to agitate for a Clash of Civilizations; it is NOT acceptable to God to shelter one or the other group or any other under a false gospel, or a false christ, or any other thing.

this should be elementary, it should be 101.

Christians have somehow got to understand that just as Islam is a hopeless, damning false religion....so is the religion of the Jews.

we have got to get this right.

zone · Apr 17, 2013

Bookreader said:

HUH??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Jesus didn't teach the pagan religion from Babylon.

He condemned it!

get you understanding!

how is the Christian Church ignorant of Judaism?

how is it we do not know this is The Oral Tradition of the Pharisees from Babylon on steroids...codified forever AFTER 70AD?

nothing to do with Moses and the prophets.

see.....i dunno....this is beyond unbelievable.

The Return of Jews to Israel

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