migrants, natives and refugees

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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#21
americans have quite. a hostile, xenophobic attitude to people not born there I think.

in nz you can become naturalised and choose to be a citizen. But it was not always so. We had dawn raids where islanders were targeted for overstaying by the police, even though those from other countries were not.

most people generally dont like outsiders and always assume people arriving will take over cos they never take the time to get to know them or their reasons for coming.

its very big thing to leave your home country and set up a life for yourself and your family, who wants to live in a refugee camp all their life and never have a home. NOBODY.
americans have quite. a hostile, xenophobic attitude to people not born there I think.
You have to understand the context of a failed immigration system for decades. Many not all have been groomed by the liberals here to hate the American system of government, to hate capitalism and using critical theory to create class or race divisions. If the majority of Hispanics for example are voting for an anti American ideology then it may appear at first xenophobic or racist but in reality it is one group not supporting thd ideology of the other group.


what people dont undertand about refugees is, the exile could last MANY MANY years. its not just a couple of months and then ok you can go now.

in that time people are born and people die, and life goes on. famines and wars dont just blow over and everything back to normal after maybe a genocide!!!

people STILL wanted to kill Jesus after he came back from Egypt. And that was years later.
Then they have plenty of time to become citizens or assimilate.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#22
We are called to preach the Gospel to every creature. We are called to love and reach out to everyone. We are citizens of heaven. We should be trying to get to them where ever they live and when they come to visit us where we are that is even better.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#23
We are called to preach the Gospel to every creature. We are called to love and reach out to everyone. We are citizens of heaven. We should be trying to get to them where ever they live and when they come to visit us where we are that is even better.
I recall this christian families that go on wwoofing schemes regard those who coe to stay and work with them as guests but also that they could be recipients of the gospel.

In fact the very first to reach out to me and give me a bible was a japanese student who came and stayed with a homestay family, and that was how he became a christian theough them reaching out with the gospel!
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#24
when I did this missions course, because of current econimics its better we stay and people visiting here are exposed to the gospel then we going to them, and them hosting us.

There are actually sending countries and receiving countries. A lot depends on the current exchange rate because it can be expensive to live somewhere or relatively cheap...you dont really want to be a drain on your host country.

many who have families in other countries will send the money they earn back to them, and its not really all their fault if no jobs are to be had in their own country. It depends on how much resources they have and land avialable.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#25
humans migrate the same way as birds migrate although I'm one of those rare ppl that like to stay put only venturing out for holidays but I always go back home. But I think im blessed to have a home to go back to.

When the Israelites were dispersed and the jews exiled, and became 'wandering jews' but they missed their homeland even after centuries. But maybe its because they kept their culture and language. They actually didnt assimilate that well with other nations which is partly why those nations wanted to kick them out. They had a certain way of life and probably even showed up others and made them jealous! eg note Daniel being helped captive by Babylonians but he was greatly respected as he stuck to his culture even in the face of being thrown to the lions.

Personally Im one of those who would be labelled 'naturalised' to an area if I was a bird or plant. If you took me back to where my ancestors came from, I probably wouldnt be able to cope or adjust. But...since Im adopted as a born again Christian I connect more with my spiritual Christian heritage than my flesh cultural heritage. Although my flesh heritage is that my food preferences run to my cultures food over all others! I mean british stodge has its place, but it doesnt make my heart sing.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,565
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#26
You have to understand the context of a failed immigration system for decades. Many not all have been groomed by the liberals here to hate the American system of government, to hate capitalism and using critical theory to create class or race divisions. If the majority of Hispanics for example are voting for an anti American ideology then it may appear at first xenophobic or racist but in reality it is one group not supporting thd ideology of the other group.




Then they have plenty of time to become citizens or assimilate.
i dont think people are being groomed.
Its just if you dont have any capital, you will find life much harder in the US than if you did have capital. Thats just the way it is. If you are earning minimum wage and dont have any chance or options to earn more, then you cant afford much when life takes a turn as life does. You could do two jobs and STILL not be able to get by. Thats why people try to invest in things that will give them capital gain, like property.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#27
another very iteresting thing was, the jewish people had this thing about gentiles. (people who were not jewish) but Jesus really turned that in its head and declared that Gods people were not just the chosen ones. it was anyone who believed in Him.
I disagree with this. The "thing" Jewish people had was with those out of covenant. If you accepted God's covenant you became part of Israel.

The difference came when they (Israel and Judah) started to follow their own laws and left Torah behind.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#28
I disagree with this. The "thing" Jewish people had was with those out of covenant. If you accepted God's covenant you became part of Israel.

The difference came when they (Israel and Judah) started to follow their own laws and left Torah behind.
but they ended up not accepting the new covenant the one Jesus made, and the gentiles who believed DID.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#29
but they ended up not accepting the new covenant the one Jesus made, and the gentiles who believed DID.
There were many gentiles at mount Sinai that said "we do" with Israel and became part of Israel. Jesus was there from day one so any covenant is His covenant. The Jews is but a small group in Israel. There are 12 tribes.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#30
There were many gentiles at mount Sinai that said "we do" with Israel and became part of Israel. Jesus was there from day one so any covenant is His covenant. The Jews is but a small group in Israel. There are 12 tribes.
You arent quite reading the new testament.
jews refered to anyone who wasnt jewish as gentile. It wasnt used to refer to anyone who wasnt hebrew but actually anyone who wasnt jewish (i.e from tribe of Judah) ...so most of Israel actually did come under that category.
sorry if you seem to be confused about that...although commonly it was used to refer to anyone that wasnt circumcised.
we are talking about the NEW covenant here the one Jesus made with his blood NOT the one on mt sinai. He put away that one at the cross and His blood covers it

You may need to update your Bible because nobody today is being circumicsed and still atttempting to live under the old covenant except the jewish people.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#31
if anyone here is still being circumsiced at eight days old and giving sacrifices at the temple and speaking hebrew and reading torah and eating kosher while not shaving their beards I think that sort of marks you out as jewish especially if you still celebrate passover by saying next year in Jeruslaem. Or maybe you actually DO live in Jerusalem. well then good for you as you are back in your homeland. There ought to be no reason then to treat foreigners and strangers in your land with cruelty.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,565
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#32
ps. Mt sinai is actually in arabia, according to the new testament.
But people think mt sinai is in Egypt. It is not actually in present day Israel.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#33
You arent quite reading the new testament.
jews refered to anyone who wasnt jewish as gentile. It wasnt used to refer to anyone who wasnt hebrew but actually anyone who wasnt jewish (i.e from tribe of Judah) ...so most of Israel actually did come under that category.
sorry if you seem to be confused about that...although commonly it was used to refer to anyone that wasnt circumcised.
we are talking about the NEW covenant here the one Jesus made with his blood NOT the one on mt sinai. He put away that one at the cross and His blood covers it

You may need to update your Bible because nobody today is being circumicsed and still atttempting to live under the old covenant except the jewish people.
Thank you, I will update my Bible :ROFL::ROFL:.

Not even the Jews can atttempt to live under the old covenant because they can't sacrifice... that is why their Talmud carry more weight than the Tanakh.

Now let me get back to reading the NT.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#34
Just wondered what your attitudes are towards migration, both immigration and emmigration.
are you a migrant or have you stayed in the same place where you were born?
Do you welcome refugees, or do you look down upon anyone who is 'fresh off the boat' or isnt a royal descendant of the first founding fathers of the esteemed good ship lollipop for ten generations or whatever it was?

How do you think Abraham felt when he was told by God to get out of his own country and go live in a place he didnt even know about but God would show him?
I do my best to deal with people as individuals.. So it matters not to me if someone is an immigrant or not..

But immigration should always be legal and to the benefit of the people of the receiving country..

Uninvited infiltrators should be arrested and deported..
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#35
i was reading Reyna Grandes memoir about her border crossing from mexico to america.

her dad went to el otro lodo 'the other side' to earn enough to build. a house for his family in mexico. Because she was only 2 at the time its never said why he went illegally and he came back for his family of 3 children when she was 8 and they attempted 3 times and were sent back the first two.

I dont know how he could have crossed the first time, but maybe its that people can cross the first time just for work but can only stay for a fixed period and then have to go back, however, finding a job and keeping it is a different matter. Some work is only seasonal but then they have to arrange to come back some how and some of it wouldnt be seasonal. He ended up staying bringing his while family over and getting them an education and green cards. He had to pay a huge fee to get his family over. Before they lived in a dirt shack and dire poverty in mexico. He didnt know the language and had to learn as an adult and do manual jobs. His absense ended up splittin the family though, badly affecting Reyna as they were placed in the care of her grandmother who was cruel to them while he was earning enough money to build a house. The house got built, but they never got to live in it. His sister got it eventually.

How does country keep track? its never actually said. But things would be dire if you had to leave your own country to put a roof over your head. There is porobably a flood of mexican wanting to find work in america. what has happened to their economy that they cant sustain themselves. is it just their pesos being devalued or drought or what. Most go to calfornia where the climate is a lot more lush and the soil fertile and jobs are easier to get and more available.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,565
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#36
I do my best to deal with people as individuals.. So it matters not to me if someone is an immigrant or not..

But immigration should always be legal and to the benefit of the people of the receiving country..

Uninvited infiltrators should be arrested and deported..
so you dont think the cost to the country that is sending immigrants should ever be taken into account? they are losing their people. Many immigrate to find workmand want to send money back to their families cos they are starving....you never think of what the cost is to the families left behind?
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
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#37
Just wondered what your attitudes are towards migration, both immigration and emmigration.
are you a migrant or have you stayed in the same place where you were born?
Do you welcome refugees, or do you look down upon anyone who is 'fresh off the boat' or isnt a royal descendant of the first founding fathers of the esteemed good ship lollipop for ten generations or whatever it was?

How do you think Abraham felt when he was told by God to get out of his own country and go live in a place he didnt even know about but God would show him?
Camps in the east and stop coming to Europe is my opinion. Europe first!
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#38
As long as they come here legally and melt into the pot.

When Abraham (et all) relocated there were no food stamps, no welfare, no public schools, etc. All these things are paid for by American citizen TAXPAYERS........people who actually get up in the morning and go to work to earn a paycheck from which the government takes an unfair share to pay for all those great programs that benefit people who DON"T work. So Abraham was not taking anything that he did not earn.....he brought his own sheep. Americans need to take care of Americans, let illegal aliens eat the bread of their own countries.

....work and "eat your OWN bread" and not anothers 2 Thess 3:12
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#39
ps. Mt sinai is actually in arabia, according to the new testament.
But people think mt sinai is in Egypt. It is not actually in present day Israel.
You should not put to much weight on the teachings of the Muslims. One of these days you will tell me Ismail was taking to Mecca to be sacrificed.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,643
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#40
so you dont think the cost to the country that is sending immigrants should ever be taken into account? they are losing their people.
Countries do not send migrants.. Or at lest should not be sending migrants.. The Source country if it was well managed would not have any problems losing people to other countries.. Badly run countries will suffer a brain drain if they cannot compete with what well run countries are offering.. So in the long run countries make their beds and have to end up sleeping in them..

Many immigrate to find workmand want to send money back to their families cos they are starving....you never think of what the cost is to the families left behind?
So how is this a cost to the people left behind if the person gets a job and sends money back to His home country???? If the person stays in his country then he or she will starve right alongside the family they left behind.. And i do think about the cost of immigration..