Should ministers show compassion towards homosexuals?

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Jul 16, 2018
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#1

So I believe you can preach the truth out of the bible and still show compassion and God's love to everyone. Sin is sin and there isn't one that is greater than the other. I was shocked to see the Minister that is discussed in the video correct a wrong in which he thought his Leadership team had made several years ago by refusing to bless a child of a lady that was in a relationship with another woman. The lady ends up visiting his church years later and he publicly in front of the whole church apologized to her in how she and her son had been treated and also said he would love to be her pastor. I loved seeing this, because it is very rare that you will see a minister admit they were wrong or handled a situation incorrectly.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#2
you are greatly 'mistaken', our Creator' definitely has many 'lines' that must be drawn
for a 'true-Christian's journey...

.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#3
True that there is no such thing as a gay person, we were created male and female, since the fall the adversary has constantly worked to deceive, divide and destroy the created order of G-d.
He came to save us FROM our sin, not IN our sin.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#4
How, from a biblical perspective, was it wrong to not bless her child?
We can even reference back to Paul criticizing a church for not casting out members who were openly active and unrepentant in their sins. He said the church needed to cast those people to satan. So... was Paul wrong?
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#5
To bless the child seems to be a very Christlike action, the parents continuing to wallow in their sin need to understand the unrepentant state they are in.
This may be a result of our outward form faith so prevalent in this time, where people think they can never be free of sin, so it doesn't matter, it matters.
I think about Madelyn Murray O'Hare, her son became a pastor,
answering Jesus' knock on the door of his heart.
 
Jul 16, 2018
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#7
How, from a biblical perspective, was it wrong to not bless her child?
We can even reference back to Paul criticizing a church for not casting out members who were openly active and unrepentant in their sins. He said the church needed to cast those people to satan. So... was Paul wrong?
But my question would be, so you think it is ok to punish the child for the acts of their parent or parents? What about kids that are being blessed that have parents that commit adultery or possibly could have a criminal record for let's say stealing. Why does the church get to pick and choose which sin doesn't meet the criteria of the church. And if the child grows up in the church, they can decide for themselves what the bible says and hopefully receive teaching that will prepare them for a true Christian journey. I don't believe you are going to draw people by beating them over the head with the bible, why would anyone be drawn to that as oppose to showing them God's grace and love.
 
L

LittleMermaid

Guest
#8
But my question would be, so you think it is ok to punish the child for the acts of their parent or parents? What about kids that are being blessed that have parents that commit adultery or possibly could have a criminal record for let's say stealing. Why does the church get to pick and choose which sin doesn't meet the criteria of the church. And if the child grows up in the church, they can decide for themselves what the bible says and hopefully receive teaching that will prepare them for a true Christian journey. I don't believe you are going to draw people by beating them over the head with the bible, why would anyone be drawn to that as oppose to showing them God's grace and love.
My momma had me out of wedlock. We were Catholic back then. The Priest told her that since she was an unmarried pregnant 22 year old...she had to leave her teaching position at Catechism and the church. She left her position but not the church. I kinda hate the Catholic Church for many reasons but that is definitely one of them.
I say every child is a blessing...the acts in which they come from may not be...but the baby is. We should not punish kids for the mistakes their parents make.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#9
suffer the little children to come unto me..........or something like that.

As for this situation.......if the Church refuses to acknowledge children whose parents are living in sin.......exactly how many children would the Church ever acknowledge?

The two ladies living in sin are apart from a child who had nothing to do with their sinful lifestyle.

just saying
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#10
But my question would be, so you think it is ok to punish the child for the acts of their parent or parents? What about kids that are being blessed that have parents that commit adultery or possibly could have a criminal record for let's say stealing. Why does the church get to pick and choose which sin doesn't meet the criteria of the church. And if the child grows up in the church, they can decide for themselves what the bible says and hopefully receive teaching that will prepare them for a true Christian journey. I don't believe you are going to draw people by beating them over the head with the bible, why would anyone be drawn to that as oppose to showing them God's grace and love.
So... you ignore my question. Ignore my references to scripture then expect me to answer your questions. If you are unwilling to answer me don't expect me to answer you.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#11
The example given in the OP is a difficult one indeed because it has two distinct parts that can only be addressed individually in my opinion. I already spoke of the child, and how the Church should not ignore it for it is not responsible for the actions of its mother.

Now, the mother and the other woman are a different store entirely, for they surely are living a life style that is an abomination in the eyes of God according to the 1st Chapter of Romans. That being said, ANY person/couple living a lifestyle that is not in keeping with the Word of God are also an abomination in His eyes are they not?

How to recognize the baby without appearing to condone the lifestyle/choices of the mother is the conundrum. The Church can not condone any lifestyle that is against God (in my opinion). In this instance, I believe the word "parents" was used......and I do want to say that there is only ONE parent in this example, and that is the mother of the child. The other woman is NOT a parent of the child according to Gods Word, and should not be recognized as such by the Church, or any Pastor/Member.

The Pastor in this example said he would be happy or whatever to be this woman's Pastor, when he should have said he would be happy to counsel and instruct the woman in the Word of God and lead her to an understanding of why her lifestyle choice is an abomination in the eyes of God, and lead her to repentance........THEN he should be happy to be her Pastor.

Until she repents and accepts Christ as Savior, she surely should not be allowed to participate in various Church activities such as Communion, Baptisms, and such. Certain fellowship events should also be off limits to her.......Scripture says that light has no fellowship with darkness........and it is pretty clear about this. I know this sounds harsh, but it is what Scripture says.

Pastors are Pastors of the "flock." Those believers in the Congregation who are saved. They are to Pastor Gods children, and witness to those who are not.......

(additional thoughts)
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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#12
Yes, they should show compassion. G-d does. But a spade is a spade. Sexual sin is sexual sin... premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality it is all equally sin... They need preached against equally, called out as sin equally, not accepted equally... but each person loved in Messiah equally....
 
Jul 16, 2018
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#13
So... you ignore my question. Ignore my references to scripture then expect me to answer your questions. If you are unwilling to answer me don't expect me to answer you.
I wasn't ignoring your question, I just felt like it was not relevant to my point. This church wasn't kicking out people, they chose to pick and choose what children they would bless. The church members from what I could tell was fine with them attending, they just couldn't get their children blessed their. Although I know good and well their are other parents who got their children blessed and who had committed sin as well, that was my point. But since you want to discuss Paul I thought I would post some other words from Paul, and for me what it comes down to is showing the people the love of God.

What does Galatians 6:2 mean?
Paul is giving instructions to the Galatian Christians about how to live with each other as Spirit-powered people in Christ. In the previous verse, he told them that when one is caught by sin, others should step in to help restore that person to walking by the Spirit again.

Now he tells them, and by extension all Christians, to help carry each other's burdens. Notice what this means: Being in Christ does not mean we won't have burdens to carry in this earthly life. We will. One of those burdens is the weightiness of our temptation to give into sin, and the heaviness of trying to get out of it. Paul wanted us to share that burden and not battle sin and temptation on our own.

The term used here by Paul is instructive. He describes these weights using the Greek term barē, which in New Testament use applies to something excessive or extreme in its weight (Revelation 2:24; Matthew 20:12). Later, Paul will use a different term, phortion, which is used for more-manageable burdens (Matthew 11:30; Acts 27:10).

We carry other burdens, as well, and sometimes we go through seasons where those burdens are too much for us to haul around. Such burdens might include relationship issues, financial problems, illness, indecision, or emotional difficulties. God's Spirit certainly gives us the power to deal with these issues, but another way God intends to provide for those in Christ is by giving us the ability to help each other.

One way we can fail in this area is by refusing to allow anyone to see the burdens we are carrying. We can mistakenly think that being a Christian means we should be self-reliant in every way, all the time. In a few verses, Paul will write that we do need to carry the weight of our responsibilities in Christ. But Christians are also meant to help each other with the loads we carry when they become overwhelming.

How does helping to carry each other's loads fulfill the law of Christ? Paul earlier quoted Jesus in saying that the entire law is fulfilled in one word: love (Galatians 5:14). Love is the law of Christ.

Context Summary
Galatians 6:1–10 focuses on how those in Christ should treat each other, through the power of God's Spirit. We should restore those caught in sin with gentleness and humility, and we should help to carry each other's burdens. Having said that, Christians should be honest with ourselves about what God is doing through us. We need to take responsibility for what He has asked us to carry. Because eternal life comes from planting God's Spirit by faith in Christ, and not by works of the flesh, we must keep doing good. The harvest will show that we planted well.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#14
The problem with using Paul's teachings to the Galatians (or any of the other Churches) is he is speaking directly about those who have become disciples of Christ. Saved believers.......he is not speaking of people who may attend a service that have not repented and accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. That is a huge difference, and it directly applies here because the mother of the child and the other woman clearly have not repented and accepted Christ for the continue to live in disobedience to Christ.

Yes, this also applies to ANY person who is living a lifestyle that is against the Word of God.....regardless of the sin they are guilty of, and they also should be held to account for their choice(s). The Church can NOT condone sinful living.....nor fellowship those who live such lives....... Paul speaks of this more than once.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#15
I wasn't ignoring your question, I just felt like it was not relevant to my point. This church wasn't kicking out people, they chose to pick and choose what children they would bless. The church members from what I could tell was fine with them attending, they just couldn't get their children blessed their. Although I know good and well their are other parents who got their children blessed and who had committed sin as well, that was my point. But since you want to discuss Paul I thought I would post some other words from Paul, and for me what it comes down to is showing the people the love of God.

What does Galatians 6:2 mean?
Paul is giving instructions to the Galatian Christians about how to live with each other as Spirit-powered people in Christ. In the previous verse, he told them that when one is caught by sin, others should step in to help restore that person to walking by the Spirit again.

Now he tells them, and by extension all Christians, to help carry each other's burdens. Notice what this means: Being in Christ does not mean we won't have burdens to carry in this earthly life. We will. One of those burdens is the weightiness of our temptation to give into sin, and the heaviness of trying to get out of it. Paul wanted us to share that burden and not battle sin and temptation on our own.

The term used here by Paul is instructive. He describes these weights using the Greek term barē, which in New Testament use applies to something excessive or extreme in its weight (Revelation 2:24; Matthew 20:12). Later, Paul will use a different term, phortion, which is used for more-manageable burdens (Matthew 11:30; Acts 27:10).

We carry other burdens, as well, and sometimes we go through seasons where those burdens are too much for us to haul around. Such burdens might include relationship issues, financial problems, illness, indecision, or emotional difficulties. God's Spirit certainly gives us the power to deal with these issues, but another way God intends to provide for those in Christ is by giving us the ability to help each other.

One way we can fail in this area is by refusing to allow anyone to see the burdens we are carrying. We can mistakenly think that being a Christian means we should be self-reliant in every way, all the time. In a few verses, Paul will write that we do need to carry the weight of our responsibilities in Christ. But Christians are also meant to help each other with the loads we carry when they become overwhelming.

How does helping to carry each other's loads fulfill the law of Christ? Paul earlier quoted Jesus in saying that the entire law is fulfilled in one word: love (Galatians 5:14). Love is the law of Christ.

Context Summary
Galatians 6:1–10 focuses on how those in Christ should treat each other, through the power of God's Spirit. We should restore those caught in sin with gentleness and humility, and we should help to carry each other's burdens. Having said that, Christians should be honest with ourselves about what God is doing through us. We need to take responsibility for what He has asked us to carry. Because eternal life comes from planting God's Spirit by faith in Christ, and not by works of the flesh, we must keep doing good. The harvest will show that we planted well.
Not relevant? Is that a joke? It was a direct question about the exact topic you were speaking on. Asking you to use the bible to support your own words. How is that not relevant?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,643
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#16

So I believe you can preach the truth out of the bible and still show compassion and God's love to everyone. Sin is sin and there isn't one that is greater than the other. I was shocked to see the Minister that is discussed in the video correct a wrong in which he thought his Leadership team had made several years ago by refusing to bless a child of a lady that was in a relationship with another woman. The lady ends up visiting his church years later and he publicly in front of the whole church apologized to her in how she and her son had been treated and also said he would love to be her pastor. I loved seeing this, because it is very rare that you will see a minister admit they were wrong or handled a situation incorrectly.
We should show the Love of the LORD to all people... That includes acting as a conduit of the Holy Spirit to convict others of their sin and their need for the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. So it is that tough but true love that false churches call hate.. Most of these false churches want to suppress the truth and see to it that their homosexual members end up in torment in the eternal Lake of Fire.. They want to promote homosexuality as good and tell their homosexual members that since they where born that way then their sexual behavior is blessed by God.. This is a satanic message of death upon their homosexual members..

But those who bring the truth of scripture to homosexuals of both the abomination that homosexual practice is to God and the great mercy God has upon all sinners through the LORD Jesus Christ will cause the homosexual to go through conviction repentance and salvation.. The ones who truly love the Homosexuals tell them the confronting truth of their condition and how it is against the will of God.. Not to condemn them,, but to take them through the process they need to walk through for them to be on the Narrow Way to eternal salvation..
 
Jul 10, 2018
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#17
They can pray for them that they come to repentance and salvation but that's where I think we need to draw the line.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#18
True that there is no such thing as a gay person, we were created male and female, since the fall the adversary has constantly worked to deceive, divide and destroy the created order of G-d.
He came to save us FROM our sin, not IN our sin.
Ephesians 2:1-5

By Grace Through Faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

He came to save us when we were dead in our sins.
The reason behind being to reconcile us to the Father.
The plan set in when Adam and Eve sinned.
Then in order to release us from the captivity of sin.

Truth is there is such a thing as a gay person.
The OP would testify to that.
We only need to look at the gay pride community to know that there is such a thing as gay people.

If we are talking about being gay then we are talking about sexual relations between the same sex.

It was the same in the day of Moses as it was in the time of Jesus as it is today.

God himself obviously knew it as he addressed the action and the resultant consequences in the law given to Moses.

So I would say that God so loved the world that he sent his only Son whilst we were dead in our sins in order to release us from our sins in order to conform us to the image of Christ.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,246
3,988
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#19

So I believe you can preach the truth out of the bible and still show compassion and God's love to everyone. Sin is sin and there isn't one that is greater than the other. I was shocked to see the Minister that is discussed in the video correct a wrong in which he thought his Leadership team had made several years ago by refusing to bless a child of a lady that was in a relationship with another woman. The lady ends up visiting his church years later and he publicly in front of the whole church apologized to her in how she and her son had been treated and also said he would love to be her pastor. I loved seeing this, because it is very rare that you will see a minister admit they were wrong or handled a situation incorrectly.
When you say bless a a child what does that mean and how would it be done?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#20
Christians are far more compassionate toward Sodomites than they are of Christians. I do not find any scripture that declares Christians are to accommodate the sin of the sinner. I can find verses where we are to separate from the uncleanness of the world. As a testimony to the world I would not endorse any Christian church blessing a child of a Sodomite mother. I do not say to hate them but to participate in a Christian ritual of this nature while living in the sin of Sodomy is to insult the holiness of the ceremony.

I would say the same thing if we were talking of a child who was produced by an adulterous relationship.

Showing compassion is not to be confused with condoning. The church must have a testimony of separation from the world in Spiritual matters.

2 Cor 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,


For the cause of Christ
Roger