Baptism and holy spirit

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#461
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#461
shrume said:
You have the ability. If God gives you revelation to heal someone, you can do it.

(and though we've had this discussion before, the words "gift" and "manifestation" are not synonymous... :) )
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Yes. And once again, I look at His manifestations of healing, prophesying, words of wisdom, interpretation of dreams, great faith in order to build up tottering knees, tongues, etc., all as wonderful gifts, though I won't have a bitter argument about whether His manifestaions are wonderful gifts or not because it would be a ridiculous argument to me. :)
 
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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#462
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
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#462
OK...Finally caught up. :) and now trying to summarize thoughts.

Stunnedbygrace,

Would you be willing to share what situation you were in when you first had that "feeling" we talked about earlier? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you were around tongues-talkers. And/or generally what kind of church situation you were 'raised' in. No, I don't think external environment = internal belief. I'm just starting to ask some of those questions I promised.

I'll post more but prefer to keep to one topic in a post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#463
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#463
Room,

The gifts will cease when they are no longer needed.

For example... as long as there is a need for edification, exhortation and comfort...there is still a need for prophecy.
1Corinthians 14:3

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#464
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#464
Just because something doesn't happen in your church, doesn't mean it isn't happening elsewhere.
Luke 4:24-28
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#465
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#465
KelbyofGod said:
OK...Finally caught up. :) and now trying to summarize thoughts.

Stunnedbygrace,

Would you be willing to share what situation you were in when you first had that "feeling" we talked about earlier? I'm asking because I'm wondering if you were around tongues-talkers. And/or generally what kind of church situation you were 'raised' in. No, I don't think external environment = internal belief. I'm just starting to ask some of those questions I promised.

I'll post more but prefer to keep to one topic in a post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...

I'm very willing.
I was driving to work in my car. The night before I had talked to God about a problem a neighbor was having and I asked Him if there was anything I could do to help her, would He tell me how. She had come over and been crying uncontrollably over the situation and I felt awful to see her so upset.

So I was driving along and I remembered talking to Him the night before and at that second was when the feeling came on me and it was unlike any feeling I'd ever felt. Ever! And at the same time, all this understanding about her situation instantly came to me. It didn't come to me through pondering. It was just instantly in my head, all explained. And I was happy and excited and I said: I'll tell her as soon as I get home!

And then I was marveling over what I was feeling - like warm water being poured over me and through me and goosebumps even though it was over 80 degrees that morning.

And then I started to think about telling her that God told me what was happening to her and why and I was stricken with fear that she would laugh at me or think I was crazy. And I wasn't willing to be thought crazy or have people saying I was crazy. So I said: wait a minute. I don't know for sure that was from You. I'm not going to tell her all of this unless you let me know for sure it was You and not just my own mind.

Just then traffic came to a standstill on the parkway and I sat for a long time, basking in this wonderful new feeling and crying and just marveling over it, and also reiterating to Him that unless He let me know for sure it was from Him, I was refusing to tell it to her. Finally traffic started moving again and I noticed the license plate of the car I had been behind.
It was: HVN SNT. When I noticed it, the feeling intensified and just came in wave after wave, without ebbing at times as it had been doing previously.

So I said, okay, that's it. I'll tell her, even though she will think I'm crazy. And I told her and all of my neighbors shunned me within days and the womans husband wouldn't allow his children to even come into my yard or talk to me anymore and my own husband thought I was crazy and it went downhill from there, culminating in just...really bad situation all around that I won't get totally into. But I never regretted telling her even though I cried some tears at my whole life being ripped apart. Being so thoroughly shunned by everyone you've known for years, including your own husband is a staggering thing at first. It happens before you completely die to the world, so it's...distressing.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#466
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#466
Forgot your other question. I wasn't raised in any church.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#467
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#467
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm very willing.
I was driving to work in my car. The night before I had talked to God about a problem a neighbor was having and I asked Him if there was anything I could do to help her, would He tell me how. She had come over and been crying uncontrollably over the situation and I felt awful to see her so upset.

So I was driving along and I remembered talking to Him the night before and at that second was when the feeling came on me and it was unlike any feeling I'd ever felt. Ever! And at the same time, all this understanding about her situation instantly came to me. It didn't come to me through pondering. It was just instantly in my head, all explained. And I was happy and excited and I said: I'll tell her as soon as I get home!

And then I was marveling over what I was feeling - like warm water being poured over me and through me and goosebumps even though it was over 80 degrees that morning.

And then I started to think about telling her that God told me what was happening to her and why and I was stricken with fear that she would laugh at me or think I was crazy. And I wasn't willing to be thought crazy or have people saying I was crazy. So I said: wait a minute. I don't know for sure that was from You. I'm not going to tell her all of this unless you let me know for sure it was You and not just my own mind.

Just then traffic came to a standstill on the parkway and I sat for a long time, basking in this wonderful new feeling and crying and just marveling over it, and also reiterating to Him that unless He let me know for sure it was from Him, I was refusing to tell it to her. Finally traffic started moving again and I noticed the license plate of the car I had been behind.
It was: HVN SNT. When I noticed it, the feeling intensified and just came in wave after wave, without ebbing at times as it had been doing previously.

So I said, okay, that's it. I'll tell her, even though she will think I'm crazy. And I told her and all of my neighbors shunned me within days and the womans husband wouldn't allow his children to even come into my yard or talk to me anymore and my own husband thought I was crazy and it went downhill from there, culminating in just...really bad situation all around that I won't get totally into. But I never regretted telling her even though I cried some tears at my whole life being ripped apart. Being so thoroughly shunned by everyone you've known for years, including your own husband is a staggering thing at first. It happens before you completely die to the world, so it's...distressing.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I appreciate your sharing and your openness.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#468
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#468
Stunnedbygrace said:
Forgot your other question. I wasn't raised in any church.
Click to expand...
Thanks. You expressed an openness about tongues (aka you're not anti-tongues) but I'm wondering where you first ran into tongues (so to speak) and what you think they are. Would you elaborate?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#469
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#469
I'm not dogmatic about what I think, but I rather get the impression from what I read that tongues are speaking in a different human language.

I first ran into tongues while watching Perry Stone. No...it was while watching Benny Hinn. And I felt very strongly that he was doing something...very unclean. But then when I ran into it on a Perry Stone episode, I did not get that icky feeling, although I didn't understand what he was doing. They were all speaking that way in the audience too. There was never any interpretation but then, they were worshiping, so...I'm not sure any interpretation was needed. Everyone in the audience was believers gathered together.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#470
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#470
I just thought they were worshiping. It didn't bother me but I didn't feel any need or desire to try to do it either.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#471
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#471
And I twice attended services in churches where almost everyone was raising their hands up and whispering quietly to themselves as they worshiped. It touched me, like...they were reaching up towards God. But I never felt a need or desire to do that either, though it also didn't bother me.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#472
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#472
Thanks again.

Perry Stone I don't know, but do know who Benny Hinn is.

I first ran into tongues at a nearby church we were visiting and some were also whispering (more what I would call muttering because voice was involved) to themselves. I didn't know what they were doing really, and it seemed odd (as in different from what the church I grew up in did) but non-offensive because it just seemed like they were praying along, to themselves. It wasn't until someone else explained what speaking in tongues is for, and I'd received it myself, that I figured out that some were speaking in tongues in that church.

I might be considered more dogmatic in that I hate to not know something of interest, and usually seek it out until I know the minute details, if possible. My learned tendency is to keep a door open for areas I could be outright wrong, partially mistaken or even just where I could learn further, because there's always more to learn, and those weak areas are the best opportunities for growth. However, once God reveals the truth of a matter, I tend to speak it as such because God is quite a reliable source of truth. :)

I'm always pointing you and others towards tongues because of what tongues actually does and what it is for. To say it one way... If you don't clearly know what tongues does and IS for, then it is unlikely you'd make an accurate assessment of whether it is a necessary ingredient.

My apologies in that I'm getting tired and need to log off for now.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#473
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#473
Cessationism logic: On one hand it says, tongues was "known" languages, but then on the other hand it says tongues needs an interpreter.

Either tongues is the interpretation or it's not. They ignore Scripture that Paul clearly says tongues is speaking to God and they ignore Scripture that clearly says don't forbid anyone to speak in tongues. In fact Paul clearly says that if there is no interpreter for tongues, people will think they are crazy.

Tongues CAN'T be known languages. It's impossible. If it was there would be no need for an interpreter.

And then the idea that "perfect" is Scripture is hilarious to me, there isn't a single verse that talks about Scripture in all of 1 Co 13, widely considered the "love chapter", but yeah Paul is talking about Scripture.

I speak in tongues, I didn't ever think I would and one day I encountered God and I've spoken in tongues since, but people told me it "was evil" so I researched this topic extensively. Just because I didn't want to disappoint God. Tongues are real. And they aren't evil.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#474
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#474
Have you followed the thread at all Cee...?? You seem to have just come in here and thrashed around, which I have never seen you do before...so I'm assuming you haven't read the thread...? No cessationists are speaking...no one is forbidding speaking in tongues or talking about speaking in tongues.

I've also never seen you be so illogical. Do known/recognized languages need an interpreter? If I heard farsi being spoken, (a known and recognized language on earth), I would not understand it unless someone was there who could interpret. In fact, if ANY known language of earth was spoken in my presence (other than English) I'd need an interpreter to understand what was being said because English is my only language.

The rest of your post I couldn't even figure out what you were saying. What does "the idea that perfect is scripture" mean? It appears to make no sense to me what you are saying, and I don't usually need an interpreter for English!

When you barge into a conversation like this (extremely out of character for you) and make the illogical statement (extremely out of character for you) that that if tongues were a language of earth then it is impossible that people would need any interpreter of that language in order to understand when it is spoken, you make me suspicious and guarded because if even the mere discussion of it can take you so out of character and so far from logic - of who I have come to know you as, - then it makes me want to flee the discussion so what has happened to you does not happen to me!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#475
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#475
KelbyofGod said:
Room,

The gifts will cease when they are no longer needed.

For example... as long as there is a need for edification, exhortation and comfort...there is still a need for prophecy.
1Corinthians 14:3

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
1 Cor 13 does not address all the gifts. 1 Cor 13 addresses only three gifts. These three have ended.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#476
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#476
notuptome said:
1 Cor 13 does not address all the gifts. 1 Cor 13 addresses only three gifts. These three have ended.
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I've heard this before so I know it is the belief of some that knowledge, prophecy and tongues have ceased. My problem is that it struck me as so odd and beyond my ability to comprehend at the time that I just skipped over any such posts so I don't know what corroborative verses other than 1 cor 13 are used as proofs.

Gimme 'em, roger, so I can follow your thinking on it. :)
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#478
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#478
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
No, I was right! YAY! They don't show up at all. You can tell because there is a gap in post #s. Also, down at the bottom right of the page it will say Show ignored content.
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And then, does the ignored content show when someone else quotes it, like it did before?
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#479
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
#479
notuptome said:
1 Cor 13 does not address all the gifts. 1 Cor 13 addresses only three gifts. These three have ended.
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to try and use cor 13 as proof of the end of the gifts of the spirit, any of them is taking that entire chapter out of context....
 
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