Oh goody another OSAS thread!

Ezekiel 33:18 “If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it.”

Righteous people living in any dispensation will die if they turn away from the Lord.

If your teaching says otherwise it is clearly a nonsense.

a gospel that gives all glory to God and not to men<

fruits of the spirit <

you are a new creature <

the things you once loved (fleshly lusts)
you now hate and wish to be delivered from
if you partake in them it breaks you
it is now a "failure"

since your new heart and spirit desire to keep Gods commandments<


the chastening of God if you choose to walk in the flesh and not the spirit <


a desire to get to KNOW God deeper that gets stronger in your walk <


the bible tells us in many ways how we can KNOW we are His children


many pointing to what His works in us produces (fruits which lead unto good works) if you want a physical sign men can see

but the SPIRIT He places within us testifies we ARE His children


sorry for the long winded answer

i can post verses but you posed a fair question with your own words
so i wanted to answer with mine


self examination would be my most simple answer

you compare it with the fruits of the spirit

and you read the gospel in a way there are 0 faults

it needs to speak for itself

i personally come from a sinless perfection back ground with a hewbrew roots element

but there were always a few verses that did not agree with the rest of the bible

i prayed to God to open my eyes
if i have itching ears remove them

i want to live for Him
i dont care if i look like an idiot to the whole world and have to give up everything

please just show me the truth
what He wants me to see

and i layed everything i learned for years at His feet

reread the bible daily

and He broke from me the false doctrine of works salvation

Where does it say they "knew" Jesus? You have however, stumbled onto THE issue.

Jesus either KNOWS you, or He doesn't. Him "knowing" means He made you a NEW Creation, with a NEW heart.

Jesus does NOT say "I knew you at one time, but because of your sin and unbelief I decided to uncreate your NEW heart that I created in You"

This is fundamental in our understanding. We either ARE Children of God or we are not, and just mere creations like the unsaved. We either ARE good trees or we are bad trees.
We either ARE sheep or we are goats.
We either ARE wheat or we are tares.

If we are His children we will NEVER turn from a good tree to a bad one.
We will NEVER morph from a sheep to a goat.
We will NEVER change from wheat to a tare.

BECAUSE we are INTRINSICALLY what we are if we are born again.

And that is, FOREVER a Child of the Most High God!!! Praise Him and be joyful for that!

Philippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Instead of showing confidence in a poorly interpreted passage like your using (those people were never saved, But as I explaine a few days ago. THEY KNEW THE TRUTH.

Why not be confident in the promise, like paul was.

Paul did not say he MIGHT compete it, He did not say he will only complete it IF you allow hi, He said he WILL complete it. I trust God to complete what he started, why don't you?

F
I completely understand what you are saying and how you came to some of these evident facts that should be present to "confirm" your belief/doctrine/teaching, but you do realize that there currently are many different views on a lot of these same things?

Not only are there many views, but some of the things you listed are your views/experiences explicitly. This means that even if you think you can find a verse to confirm what you are trying to communicate, there is no way to say that it absolute truth since other people have and do currently disagree with some of these teachings.

My question is this: Is it even possible to reach a unanimous absolute understanding of the scriptures since it is the ONLY material that we have that directly tells us of God and our creation.

I just want to know the truth, and so far it has become apparent that the way we keep using the bible leads us all to different conclusions and don't tell me only the truth comes to those with the holy spirit because that is a circular argument.

we can have the absolute knowledge of what saves <- as the scriptures say

and if we ourself are indeed saved <- as the scriptures say

as well as many aspects of scripture


but it is far too deep to have an absolute knowledge of the complete depth of every hidden or open meaning in every single verse paired with the implications this knowledge would make


but these different conclusions you speak of

many are spoken of IN scripture and those with eyes to see

see the other stumbling clearly
and try to help them

then with darkened eyes
are currently stumbling and resisting reproof


one of the biggest stumbling blocks has been there since as far back as cain.....

who offered the fruits of his labor opposed to a sacrifice and was rejected

unto those of israel who seek justification by the works of the law opposed to justification by sacrifice (faith in Jesus)


this stumbling block was layed there by God Himself


if i had to guess why.. to separate the sheep from the goats in a way we can see

as well as glorify Him and increase our thanks and appreciation for those who have stumbled over this very thing



romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

romans 10
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.



(this continues even today when people think their works earn or keep salvation... they literally put their hope on their own shoulders..... but those who place their faith in Jesus rest their hopes in His righteousness... they recieve His imputed righteousness.... those who place their hope in themself will be held to their own righteousnes)

Busy cooking, however this is how it is for those who know the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
(2Pe 2:20-21 KJV)

dude knowledge OF HIM is not KNOWING HIM

i can witness to an atheist today

and tell him about Jesus
and he may even understand in his mind

oh ya... that makes sense

alright....

let me try this whole christian thing

then for a time he goes to church

he reads his bible

then he walks away from the knowledge he has recieved



that does not mean he was ever born again

that fact he can even walk away

shows he was not given a new heart
or spirit

and that his "faith" was not genuine

(this has been proven with scripture that is indeed relevant to this subject at least 4 times now in the last few pages alone)

Should they turn from the knowledge of their Lord and Saviour, their end is worse than their beginning.

Saved!

are you lying on purpose?


let me show you your error

2 Peter 2:20

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”

one final bump for you

if you continue to literally try to CHANGE the gospel to push your false doctrine

i will not continue to try and show you the truth

There is only One Lord and Saviour. Where is the error?

here you show yes

Jesus is THE LORD AND SAVIOR

but then you impute your lie that He was THEIR Lord and Savior

which would imply even though He was their "savior" they go to hell

which would make Him powerless



how dare you

the error is when you changed the verse to say "their" lord and savior to say they WERE saved


but this is just you trying to establish your own false gospel by adding to the true gospel

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

1. Is says they KNEW THE LORD, it does not say they knew JESUS.

2. It says they knew the WAY to righteousness, And they turned from the command.

It does not say they EVER received. it.

That is the fate of the apostate.

“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” Hebrews 6:4

again

just posting verses you cannot understsnd


im starting to fear for you....

i have yet to see any truth from you what so ever

just out of context verses followed by 0 wisdom

lies

and rejection of scripture in context

flip flopping all around to avoid every single your constant failure to provide 1 verse that points to a saved born again believer losing salvation

i could prove you wrong for a year (like i have done for hours now... you just keep verse hopping never standing your ground or accepting reproof)

and you would just go to other out of context verses

then when i reprove you you just post another

before i leave you ill plant one more seed of truth in hopes God will produce some growth in you

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

^
this doesnt fit in your false doctrine

In regard to righteousness for either justification or sanctification. It is very useful for instruction in righteousness, though.