Oh goody another OSAS thread!

Of course an unbeliever is never saved. It goes without saying. Why ever someone should post scriptures about unbelievers in defence of apostasy is beyond belief!

“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” Hebrews 6:4

If you think people "who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age," are not fit for the kingdom of heaven, then I doubt there will be anyone there.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

You mean ignore the parts of the Bible you don't like!

Sorry there is a limit on the number of characters we can post. Yes, you are quite correct the believer can enjoy the knowledge and security of eternal life with Christ. Yes, of course.

However This is a discussion about OSAS that says Once you are Saved you are Always Saved. Paul wrote, “Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith by following deceitful spirits, the teachings of demons, and the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences have been burned by a hot iron" (1Ti 4:1-2).

Scripture clearly tells us those who once believed but later abandon their faith will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In Revelation we read of names being removed from the Lamb’s Book of Life. Clearly the claims made by the OSAS people regarding eternal salvation are incorrect and this is what the discussion is about.

Do you still have the ability to choose, what to wear, what to eat, and what activities you do?[/Quote}

That is not freewill. That is based on conditioning. Anyone who knew me would know what I would 'choose'.

We do not have have absolute freewill.

Should they turn from the knowledge of their Lord and Saviour, their end is worse than their beginning.

Saved!

Exactly the life of the flesh is in the blood, but literal blood without the unseen spirit has no life to offer. It returs to the spiritless dust it was formed of. Blood seen is used to represent the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God, the eternal not seen. Water is used in the same way as blood , the blood must be poured out at the foot of the alter as Christs blood was poured out at the foot of the cross.

Grain is used to represent the spiritual seed(one) Christ

Your interpretation of scripture is the opinion of man and there is a reason for that. See 1 Corinthians 2:11-14.

More confusion of DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture on your part. Romans 2:6 - "God will render to each person according to his deeds" does not mean that we merit eternal life by our deeds. You are reading these verses through the lens of salvation by works. As I already explained to you:

*If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it is critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.

Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of receiving salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation.

*If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). You need to learn how to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture.

Many Christians are living just like that.


No obedience to live as Christ Jesus as their Lord.



JPT

Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.

Sorry there is a limit on the number of characters we can post. Yes, you are quite correct the believer can enjoy the knowledge and security of eternal life with Christ. Yes, of course.

However This is a discussion about OSAS that says Once you are Saved you are Always Saved. Paul wrote, “Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith by following deceitful spirits, the teachings of demons, and the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences have been burned by a hot iron" (1Ti 4:1-2).

Scripture clearly tells us those who once believed but later abandon their faith will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In Revelation we read of names being removed from the Lamb’s Book of Life. Clearly the claims made by the OSAS people regarding eternal salvation are incorrect and this is what the discussion is about.

Big fail for you.

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These "cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs" were never sheep. (John 10:27-29).

*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

[In summery, when the righteous, who in their own righteousness believe they can do as they like because they are Always Saved turn to iniquity they will die, but when the wicked do what is lawful they will live. That puts the self righteous OSAS people right back where they belong.]

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

That is what it says. We cannot change it.

Ok, thats a new one.


God does the repenting for us, which means He does the believing for us, which means everyone will be saved.


That is Universal Reconciliation, and is Heresy.




JPT

Yep. Experience and taste. Not seeing a difference there. Plenty of other Greek words that the writer could have chosen like receive, ingest, eat, made new, etc.. but the word used was TASTE.

1 cor 3: For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on itendures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he will be saved, even as through fire!

The writer makes it crystal clear by the words he uses to us.

The problem you have, is you trying to make the word of God fit your wine tasting experience, rather than rightly dividing and examining all the adjectives that describe the point the author is making.

The meaning of tasted is not the meaning you have assigned it.

The we add “enlightened”, and “become partakers” to the word “tasted”, and we have a clear understanding that these are people, who have repented and received the Holy Spirit, and have become enlightened having a clear understanding, because then have partaken of the Holy Spirit, then as the context so plainly reveals, they have departed from the living God.

The very reason and purpose for the book of Hebrews was to reveal Jesus as the Lord God to the Jews, who were under persecution from unbelieving Jews to turn them back to Judaism.


The Context -

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 6:4



JPT