Oh goody another OSAS thread!

It was not a done deal. You are getting ahead of yourself. They were getting side tracked by false teachers, in Galatians 5, yet Paul clearly stated in verse 10 - I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. The rituals, ceremonies and festivals of the Jewish calendar mentioned in Galatians 4, which God gave the Jews under the old covenant (but were never required for the church) are not to be legalistically observed. Nothing is mentioned here about them losing salvation.

***I'm still waiting for you to show me the words "lost salvation" in the Bible.

You don't find it interesting that various false religions and cults, such as (Roman Catholicism, Campbellism, Mormonism, SDA's, JW's etc..) strongly oppose OSAS and also teach salvation by works? That's always been a red flag for me!

So those who believe for a while are saved for awhile, because at the moment they believe they are saved.



13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Here in this group, these believe for a while, then fall away.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Where these saved when they believe?


Jesus says they were saved, when they believe.


Then later they no longer believe, and therefore are no longer believers, and thus they are no longer saved.



Now you know why OSAS is a false demonic doctrine, that causes people to depart from the faith.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1

• some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons

JPT

So let's focus on that scripture you posted...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So, it doesn't say 100 times... it says if you sin willfully (Even ONCE).... well.. who doesn't or hasn't? So in your own profession of faith, you are going to hell and you cannot receive anymore sacrifice for your sins.

Do people read the Word? It says if you sin willfully.. then there is no more sacrifice ever again. Tell me it does not say that? So now, who hasn't sinned willfully after receiving Christ? Based on this definition, Heaven will be empty. Let's try and really read the context of scripture. Really, if we sin, then POOF, Jesus never covers our sins again; even if it's ONE SIN... that's what you just said by quoting the scripture out of context. Doesn't matter who you are, it's what it says? Sigh!

Even taking it for what it says IN CONTEXT (indeed if it's talking about a saved person), again, none will go to heaven, b/c we have ALL sinned at least ONE TIME since we accepted Christ. Again... Sigh!

God loves you all! I pray you seek the scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into truth. The way this scripture was just quoted is not truth. If it is, then all us sinners are going some place other than heaven

Blessings in the Lord Jesus

EPIALES

The bible says otherwise,

The bible says it is our knowledge we have eternal life that keeps our focus on him, that alws us toeep our faith it is knowledge that we have been given all. Things in christ, which alllows us to take focus off seelf, and put that focus on ohers and God which in turn lowers sin, not as legalists say cause sin to increase, plus, we have been made new creatures, instead of being self absored self focuse self righteous people who must serve self, because no one else will, we become others focused others absorbed god righteous people because god loves us and fills our every need (we love because he first loved us)

If anythinn, the people who excuse sin are thise why fight against grace, theeither hide their sin, or excuse it because it is not murder or sxual sin, or they are not Haters (so they think) So their sin does not sink. So they keeep living in sin blind to the fact the are even sinning.

The context is referring to Jews who have departed from the Lord and turned back to Judaism.

Those who do that have no way to be brought back to repentance and have no sacrifice for sin.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

JPT

Gods logic...

1 john 5: And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has [d]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [e]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Who overcomes the world? The do gooder religious? Who fight osas?

1 john 5:For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

We don't have to supply it. It's holy spirit.

The context is teaching that Christ is the only sacrifice for sin. If look for another, there will be none found.

Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition (Hebrews 10:39). *CONTEXT.

Even though the truth continues to go right over your head, I'll explain it again:

In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Gk. verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. The wording of this verse is not - "and you will be saved (future indicative) if you (future indicative) persevere." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, really saved, if in the future you hold fast to Christ." Future perseverance would be proof of genuine conversion. Not holding our confidence stedfast unto the end indicates a flaw in our confidence from the start. Anyone can profess to have confidence and profess be a Christian, but failing to hold that confidence stedfast unto the end demonstrates otherwise.

Departing from God would be a manifestation of unbelief. If someone is still in the process of becoming a partaker of Christ and are among genuine believers and have received the knowledge of the truth and are still in the process of considering the truth, but then decide to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul, didn't this person still turn away and depart from God? God revealed Himself to them through the truth, yet they turned away from Him. You can't turn away from the truth if you have not yet heard or had the chance to consider the truth, but that does not mean that you have to fully accept it before you can turn away from it. If I decide to walk across the Brooklyn bridge and I walk right up to it without stepping onto it, but then turn and walk away from it, does that mean I didn't turn away and depart from the bridge just because I wasn't actually on the bridge?

In Hebrews 4:2-3, we read: For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have BELIEVED do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between "us" who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and "them" who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Cool, so then we don't need to try to get people to fear they will lose their salvation. Or is He not able to keep His people?

BTW: Scripture also teaches God didn't give us a spirit of fear. And that perfect love casts out fear. So maybe that OT Scripture is saying something different than it might appear. Because Scripture teaches we grow in love by knowing His Love for us.

Actually it would be hard pressed to prove that these were saved Jews. And I replied to someone that used this scripture to prove we can lose salvation as a Christian, whom, in fact, never elaborated on the scripture itself. Just cherry picked one scripture out of the Bible and used it incorrectly. Now if someone wants to elaborate, I"m up for that, but don't cherry pick scriptures. In his context of the usage, if we even sin one time, then we are never allowed repentance again, as Christ won't be re-crucified and we no longer have remission of sins. That was my point. And feel free to enlighten me on any proof that you believe you have that these Jews were actually saved? I think reading the entire book makes it self explanatory to anyone that knows the "REST" of scripture. When reading and understanding, we must look at all scripture and not just bits and pieces.

Be blessed in Christ Jesus

EPIALES

Amen, and Again, by the word of God

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind

i havent seen much from you

maybe its because ive been less active

but what i little i have seen is biblical truth


nice to see a new (or unfamiliar) face fighting the good fight

God bless you bro

I've been around in the chats more than here. Just decided to get involved a bit in the forum. Thank you much for the welcome.

Be blessed in Christ

EPIALES

That’s basically what I said.

The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews, and focused on strengthening their faith, by showing them who Jesus Christ is.

From chapter 1 the author sets out to do this very thing demonstrating that Jesus Christ is the Lord God of the Old Testament.


The reason for this is, unbelieving Jews were persecution these Jewish converts in order to turn them back to Judaism, an antichrist religion that rejects Jesus as Messaiah and Lord.

Jesus taught his disciples about this very thing, in His teaching of the Sower.


11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15



Here is the key verse that correlates to Hebrews 3:12-14 from which Hebrews 10:26-28 gets its context.



But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

This is a direct reference to departing from Him under persecution.



“Fall way” is the same Greek work as used in Hebrews 3:12

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Again this context continues through Hebrews 6, and on into Hebrews 10.


It’s an admonition to the Jews to remain faithful to Christ while under persecution, even unto death.

• But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:36-39



JPT

What is it about saved people not being heirs along with the sons of God if they no longer trust Christ for justification that you do not understand?


No, because once saved always saved was not in the church for centuries for them to adopt it. Salvation through works of the law was. And that is precisely what they have adopted.

You don't seem to realize that they are just as much in error as you are, but in the extreme polar opposite. Just as many think there is nothing they can do to lose their salvation, so it is that there are those who believe the exact opposite and think that they must do everything to be saved. Biblical non-once saved always saved is not in either of those extremes. The cults you cite are just on the exact opposite side of error concerning this subject. Once saved always saved is in one extreme of error, works salvation is in the other extreme of error. The Biblical truth is right in the middle.

Amen.




The book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews, and focused on strengthening their faith, by showing them who Jesus Christ is.

From chapter 1 the author sets out to do this very thing demonstrating that Jesus Christ is the Lord God of the Old Testament.


The reason for this is, unbelieving Jews were persecution these Jewish converts in order to turn them back to Judaism, an antichrist religion that rejects Jesus as Messaiah and Lord.

Jesus taught his disciples about this very thing, in His teaching of the Sower.


11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15



Here is the key verse that correlates to Hebrews 3:12-14 from which Hebrews 10:26-28 gets its context.



But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time oftemptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

This is a direct reference to departing from Him under persecution.





“Fall way” is the same Greek work as used in Hebrews 3:12

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Again this context continues through Hebrews 6, and on into Hebrews 10.


It’s an admonition to the Jews to remain faithful to Christ while under persecution, even unto death.

• But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:36-39



JPT.

You cannot have both. Either you are saved or you are not saved. There is no middle ground. So which is it? Saved by grace or saved by works? There is no other way. Sounds like you don't want to choose a side, except what you believe to be a middle ground. There is no middle ground with God. Why do you think it talks about cold, hot, and "lukewarm"... Lukewarm are those in the middle that have not truly accepted the God of the Bible and His Son that He has freely given to those who accept him. It's either by works or it is not. I hope and pray you are not straddled somewhere in the middle where you believe it's both grace and works. It's impossible to be both. Either you're saved or you're not.

Be blessed in Christ

EPIALES

Exactly, it was about the Old Testament "foreshadows" of a better and new covenant. That's why it talks so much about what Christ has done for us. Not that it's specifically talking to children of God, but talking to those unbelieving Jews that still wanted to keep the Old Testament for the remission of sins. If one reads the book in it's entirety, and really seeks the Lord in the understanding, this is the only interpretation, as it is backed up with the other 100's of scriptures that show what Christ truly accomplished.

Be blessed in Christ.

EPIALES

Not talking to children of God? You are joking right?

• how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation,

Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Hebrews 2:1-3

and again


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.



JPT