I find it hard to continue a positive discussion under a negative topic, so I would like to start again.
Quote: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29)
No one includes yourself.
Response: ---
An interesting discussion, and the consensus is that ‘God does not lie,’ so we can look at some of the exceptions, which are perhaps conditional.
--- I agree that God does not go back on His promise of eternal life to believers, but as one poster quoted the verse from Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
When Jesus sent out the 12 disciples in Matthew 10:1 “He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.” --- Then it names them all, and Matthew says “And Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.”
The sending out would have been about 30 AD, and the time of Matthew’s writing was the late 50’s or 60’s, so it was written after the fact.
--- If we accept that Judas was one of the twelve, it would indicate that he was a believer, and at that time had received the Holy Spirit’s power for that occasion.
When Judas asked the Pharisees, “What will you give me if I deliver Him unto you?” ---Did he not take himself out of God’s hand?
Paul said of his companion Demas in 2 Timothy 4:10 “Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica.”
In Luke 9:61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.”
62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Quote: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (John 10:28-29)
No one includes yourself.
Response: ---
An interesting discussion, and the consensus is that ‘God does not lie,’ so we can look at some of the exceptions, which are perhaps conditional.
--- I agree that God does not go back on His promise of eternal life to believers, but as one poster quoted the verse from Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
When Jesus sent out the 12 disciples in Matthew 10:1 “He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.” --- Then it names them all, and Matthew says “And Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.”
The sending out would have been about 30 AD, and the time of Matthew’s writing was the late 50’s or 60’s, so it was written after the fact.
--- If we accept that Judas was one of the twelve, it would indicate that he was a believer, and at that time had received the Holy Spirit’s power for that occasion.
When Judas asked the Pharisees, “What will you give me if I deliver Him unto you?” ---Did he not take himself out of God’s hand?
Paul said of his companion Demas in 2 Timothy 4:10 “Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica.”
In Luke 9:61 And another also said, “Lord, I will follow You, but let me first go and bid them farewell who are at my house.”
62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
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