Election and free will

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S

selfdissolving

Guest
#1
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

The gospel is the universal call that goes out to every creature. "Repent and believe the gospel and you shall be saved."
The effectual call is when God enables a person to respond the gospel with saving faith.
Those who receive the effectual call are the elect, and they respond to the effectual call with saving faith every single time.

Romans (8:28-30) And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Some say the doctrine of free will is a conundrum which cannot be understood, but i disagree. Although it is a very hard pill to swallow.

The elect have been chosen in Christ for salvation before the world began and everyone else will be damned. When we preach the gospel, only the elect will respond with saving faith. The Church (the elect) are the recipients of all of God's goodness, and the wrath of God abides on everyone else.

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Hard pill to swallow, but biblical truth!
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
#2
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

The gospel is the universal call that goes out to every creature. "Repent and believe the gospel and you shall be saved."
The effectual call is when God enables a person to respond the gospel with saving faith.
Those who receive the effectual call are the elect, and they respond to the effectual call with saving faith every single time.

Romans (8:28-30) And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Some say the doctrine of free will is a conundrum which cannot be understood, but i disagree. Although it is a very hard pill to swallow.

The elect have been chosen in Christ for salvation before the world began and everyone else will be damned. When we preach the gospel, only the elect will respond with saving faith. The Church (the elect) are the recipients of all of God's goodness, and the wrath of God abides on everyone else.

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Hard pill to swallow, but biblical truth!
It never ceases to amaze me how so many Christians twist the meaning of the verses below, to support their (pro choice) view of salvation.
They claim that they are saved by their decision to accept the Gospel, so only those who were born with a high enough IQ will realize that it's a good offer. But those poor folks who happened to be born with low IQ's don't stand a chance of salvation.

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
Ps 65:4
The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.
Prov 16:4
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mt 24:31
now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
Luke 18:7
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
Acts 15:17-18
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:28- 30
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:33
for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Romans 9:11
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
Rom 11:2
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
Romans 11:5-7
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
1 Cor 2:7
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 1:5,11
knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;
1 Thes 1:4
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
2 Thes 2:13
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
Titus 1:1
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:2
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Rev 13:8
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,968
13,624
113
#3
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superposition of states.

no determination can be made without the action of an outside observer --- Who is that One able to observe?
the act of His observation itself affects the state of the observed, giving it existence.

And he was saying,
"Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!"
(Luke 23:42)