What must I do to be saved

This hope is not some uncertain, cross your fingers, hope I make it kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). *So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE (expectation of what is sure certain) of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Salvation has 3 tenses, which often get confused by works-salvationists. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) The salvation of our soul (future tense) is in regards to glorification. Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

John 3:36 - says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.” Note that the believer “has” (present tense) this life (the verb is present tense in the Greek, too). We also find similar present-tense constructions in John 5:24 and John 6:47. The focus of eternal life (here-justification) is not on our future-glorification, but on our current standing in Christ. Yet believers eagerly await their future-glorification.

Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Sugar coated double talk. You promote salvation through faith + obedience/works. Saving faith is (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation. Obedience which "follows" is works. You take faith AND obedience/works, wrap them BOTH up in a package, then simply stamp "faith" on the package and teach salvation through faith + obedience/works and call it salvation through faith. Roman Catholics and other works-salvationists do the same thing. You are not fooling me.

DOING or ACTING is something we intrinsically ARE. Doing, or acting can't get you saved. Only being born again can do that. IF you are a Child of God you WILL DO or ACT like you were BORN to be. So His Children WILL love Him, and WILL love their neighbor. This may take time to manifest through the indwelt Presence of the Holy Spirit working in our lives, but it WILL happen because it's who we are now.

Sheep to the Shepherd. "What must I do to be a sheep?" Shepherd responds, " Bear wool, Baa with your mouth, harm no one, give birth to lambs, and follow my voice".

Is that sheep a sheep BECAUSE he DOES those things, or does he do those things BECAUSE he is born a sheep?

I was in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claimed that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works, then he proceeded to contradict himself by making this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

*Notice how his argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES this list of works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. *Notice how he takes BOTH faith AND works, wraps them BOTH up in a package, yet merely stamps "faith" on the package. His argument was deceptive and is just RC smoke and mirrors.

The point is, no matter how many times and different settings he shared the stories, we know that Jesus did not mean he will always without exception find the lost sheep, coin, and son. They are not stories to show you can not lose your salvation. Especially if you are convinced 1 John 2:19 means true believers will never leave in the first place (showing themselves to not really be saved in the first place).




This is called 'having faith'. As long as you have this faith--this believing--you will remain saved. Stop trusting in Christ for salvation and you will no longer be saved.

And if you believe that true believers will never stop believing, that's fine. But don't use the stories of the lost sheep, coin, and son to prove you can never lose your salvation.

reneweddaybyday said:

I just know that there are times when I have been weak and I have strayed. During those times, He did not let go of me. I let go of Him. I didn't follow His instruction. Nevertheless, He brought me back and enveloped me in His love. I do not believe I am "special" or that others who find themselves in similar situations will be let go. His promises are rock solid.

Click to expand...

But did you stop believing in the forgiveness of Christ during this time? That is what we are talking about here. If you had done that and you resisted all of God's efforts to bring you back to faith and trust in Christ you would have lost your salvation. But as it is, it sounds like you're not describing actually no longer caring about and trusting in the blood of Christ for the payment of your sin debt.



Amen. He is able to do that. That's why you need to keep trusting in him. Don't abandon him for something else to be saved, like the Galatians did. You will lose his ability to keep you saved if you do that, and you know you surely can't do that yourself.

What I know is James 2 and the Parable of the Sower do not teach us that the unbelieving person never believed to begin with. That doctrine gets impressed onto those passages by once saved always saved believers. But if you can show me where in those passages that is taught please do that.

Yes, the believer was 'past tense' saved back when they first believed. But Paul really did say you are saved (present tense) if you hold fast (present tense) the gospel message you heard. It's a condition for still being saved as of today:


"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. "-1 Corinthians 15:1-2


You can check the tenses out here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002

Click on the 'parse' button(s) to see the tenses of the verbs and moods. And click on the verb tense for an explanation of that tense. Here is the explanation of the 'present' verb tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present."


The bottom line is, if you are not still believing in the gospel word you first heard you are not still saved. You have to continue the believing you started out in on the first day you were saved to still be saved today.

Yes that is where the actual power of salvation lies. Believing is only the conduit through which we access that power. You must keep the conduit open to keep receiving the power of God in salvation.


You can not still be saved if you do not still have the Son or the Father:

"24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."
"12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."
1 John 2:24,5:12


Then you believe that the stories of the lost coin, sheep, and son are not stories about saved people remaining saved even though they leave because you believe that saved people never leave or else they were never saved to begin with.

"Belief isn't a work"

It is a work if it is a requirement for Salvation. If it is something a person must muster up in order to CAUSE their own salvation then it is a work.

If it is something that is given as a GIFT then it is not a work.

And if it is given as a gift then it is not taken back. God does not repent of His Gifts or His Calling.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The Gift of Faith.
The Gift of Obedience.
The Gift of Salvation.

IF you aren't given these gifts then you are working for them. If you are working for them then they come from you and they are not Gifts from God. IF they come from you they are falling short, very short, of what is required.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

How does one follow Christ if they do not trust and obey His Voice.


Those who follow Him, then no longer trust and obey His voice, are those who wander from the truth and become lost.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20



Sheep who become lost, have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.



JPT

Receiving the salvation of your soul is the end result of your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

We shall all who have kept the faith in Him, receive the salvation of our soul, when He returns.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:28


He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


Here is when we all who have faith in Christ, will receive the salvation of our souls, when He returns on the Day of Judgement, to Judge each of us according to our deeds.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:31-36


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


JPT

Abraham was justified by faith when he obeyed the voice of the Lord and left his fathers house.


This is a type of the Gospel whereby we hear the call to repent and obey by turning from our old life to follow the Lord.


Faith without the action of obedience is dead.


That’s why it’s called the obedience of faith.




JPT

In the passage, the 'in which also you stand' makes it impossible that 'unless you believed in vain' means in case they never 'really' believed to begin with:

1"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain."-1 Corinthians 15:1-2

The verb 'stand' in 'in which also you stand' in verse 1 is in the perfect tense and in the indicative mood. That means the action (standing in the gospel) has happened already. That means they really did believe. He's affirming that they have indeed been saved and were standing on the gospel message they heard and received from him. So the veracity of their believing, whether it was real or fake, is not what is in question here.

What is in question here is if Christ has really been raised from the dead (they are being told that he did not rise from the dead), and if they are going to continue in the true gospel and be saved, the one he preached that says he was raised from the dead. Christ being risen or not is what determines if their real faith in the gospel is in vain or not. If Christ did not really rise from the dead there is no basis for the real faith they started out with when they received and stood on Paul's gospel message, therefore, that believing would be in vain.

We can see for ourselves that the meaning of 'unless you believed in vain' comes right from the passage itself. We know what 'believed in vain' means from vs. 14 and 17:

"14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."

"17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. "

1 Corinthians 15:14,17

Believing in vain does not mean them not 'really' believing the gospel in the first place as you say. Paul plainly says they did really believe his gospel (vs. 1). What is in question is if they are going to stick to the original message they heard and received and be presently saved, and if Christ really was raised from the dead, for if he wasn't then the true believing they have done will have been in vain. Even continuing in true believing can't make a false gospel (Christ is not risen) able to save.

Can you please explain what faith is and how faith operates to produce a divine result?

I can give you my understanding.
To me, faith in God is the assent or agreement to the truth of certain propositions or statements about God; for example:
God exists, and rewards those that diligently seek Him.
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world, not just the elect, of sin, righteousness and judgement.
Those who are convicted are drawn to Jesus by the love, hope, truth and invitation revealed in the gospel. Those who wish to come after Him find that the first requirement of discipleship is to deny self; (Matt. 16: 24) Many are not willing to take that step. This is the first level of faith, but we find accounts of those who believed at this level but were not approved; examples: ( John 2: 23-25; 12: 42, 43).

Those who do deny themselves, who empty and humble themselves, are begotten by God (John 1: 12, 13); the seeds of those traits necessary to be a child of God are given to them through the word that is implanted in their hearts. (James 1: 18, 21; 1 Peter 1: 23) These traits include faith, love, hope, obedience, holiness; requirements of the divine nature. We believe because faith is a work of God that introduces us to the grace of God (1 John 5: 1) We love because God first loved us and the Holy Spirit pours forth the love of God in our hearts (1 John 4: 7) We hope because Jesus arose from the dead and endured the cross because of the joy that was set before Him (1 Peter 1: 3) We practice righteous and obey because Jesus is righteous and obeyed the Father (1John 2: 28) We are holy because God is holy, that is His nature (1 John 3: 9). We overcomes because He overcame the world (1 John 5: 4) We do not sin because it is His nature not to sin (1John 5: 18)
When God calls us, he opens our heart to respond to the message in faith, hope, love and obedience (Acts 16: 14)
Faith is a work of God, a gift, given by the grace of God through hearing the word to the heart of those who have humble themselves. John 6: 29
Faith works through love (Gal. 5: 6), with those works of faith, appointed by God, (calling on the name of the Lord, repentance, confession of His name before men, obedience of faith) to perfect or complete our faith and good works. (James 2: 21- 24; Rom. 2: 6-10) This is the second level of faith. We are forgiven, saved and justified by this perfected faith, but not faith alone. This is saving faith, the faith that is deemed effective to accomplish God’s purpose in our lives.

Many have referenced the nearly two hundred times that faith is listed as the sole factor in receiving God’s blessings, as evidence that faith acts alone. In my opinion this is tragic, the reason it is listed alone so many times is because faith is the introductory virtue to the grace of God. (Rom. 5: 2) Thus it underlies every response we make. We know that faith is not alone, “But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” If we search the Scriptures we will find other factors, sometimes listed by themselves that result in these blessings.
If we look at these nearly two hundred examples, we find that the faith involved in receiving these blessings is a “perfected,” a faith, a faith approved by God. This is a faith that works through love (Gal. 5: 6) with God’s works of faith to perfect our faith. (James 2: 20- 24)
God bless.

This whole era when Christ starts the White Throne Judgment is addressed here:

Christ’s church is being judged daily by trials and afflictions. I believe this is the only judgment we will face.

1 Pet. 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”

The judgment only comes after the millennial reign of Christ on earth with His first fruits church (believers).

Rev. 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Our sins won’t even be mentioned during the judgment period because of this promise:

Isa. 43:25 “I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”

So the only judgment for believers will be a less or greater position in Christ’s ruling government:

Rev. 22:12 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

Mat. 25:23 “His lord said unto him, well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”

This sets the context for what Jesus taught us about that Day.


IOW Matthew 25:31-46 is about His servants, not the world, who stand before Him to be judged according to our deeds.

Those of His servants who are “fruitless”, showing no evidence of love: faith working by love, but rather, whose deeds reflected a self serving life, will be removed from Him. John 15:6



Paul plainly says it to the Church of Rome this way -


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

• he who does not obey the Son will not see life

JPT

Justification- Redemption

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the richness of His grace. (Eph. 1: 7)
In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (Col. 1: 14)
And such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor. 6: 11)
And now why do you wait? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 22: 16)
Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3: 19)
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood. May grace and peace be with you in the fullest. (1 Peter 1: 2)
Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our heats sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hen 10: 22)

Sometimes we can confuse our terms if we don’t pay close attention to the Scripture. Clearly, forgiveness of sin is called “redemption” not justification and forgiveness of sin is associated with repentance and baptism in water, in the name of Christ; where in we are washed from our sin. When we obey Jesus Christ (through repentance and baptism) we are sprinkled with the blood of Christ, the ultimate cleaning agent. How do we have this assurance? Because God says that when our bodies are washed with pure water, you are also being sprinkled with His blood. God does not lie.
God bless

Right. However, in your post #772, you indicated:



The way I understand it:



Abraham did what God told him to do and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Rom 4:13) and his faith was increased/strengthened.

When Abraham heard the word of God, he did not suppress or restrain the truth in unrighteousness.