Doctrine of Immutability (Eternal Security)

Yes. The long time period. Its difficult for any manuscript to survive 2,000 years. We have some manuscripts
from the the second century, though.
They could be poor, but not uneducated. Jews (and the Roman empire globally) were quite literate. The knowledge of various languages was common.

Jesus, John the Baptist, apostles were talking to Roman soldiers, people from Syria etc. Greek and latin were the world's languages of those days like English is today.

What you say is true, but I suspect it reflects some of the illogical and contradictory thought processes that frustrate and turn seedz off to Christianity. I said grace is what enables us to be obedient; You re-framed that to imply that I didn't say that; then stated exactly what I said. If it's any consolation to seedz, I never would have found Christ by observing Christians.

Jesus died for Adam's sin. We were in Adam. We were not responsible for Adam's sin but now we are responsible for our own sins.

so what then?

you nix my post because of your own personal experience?

honestly...there are people who are not having a cloned experience ..you know...just like yours

your main reference point seems to be...yourself

that's narrow ... that's the way I'm reading your responses anyhow

maybe I've become dense as lead (which I doubt) but it seems to me you are weighing things from what you know

which really narrows the field of vision

I suppose I could look into it

thanks

as long as we are trading summer reading material, did you happen to check out the sourced article I posted? it's pretty lengthy. I just c/p a small portion

Yes, Jesus is the only sacrifice we will ever need, for any of our sins.


We must remember that we have the same Spirit by which He walked in obedience to His Father, that empowers us to live our lives in dominion over sin.


Now, if we do commit a sin, we need to confess our sin in order to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9



JPT

Yes sir!






JPT

I believe that Jesus died for the sin of Adam. We were in Adam. We are responsible for any future sins after the cross.

Its a shame really the author went to Princeton Theological Seminary. At one time long ago admission to Princeton Theological Seminary would have been a very high honor but today it is thoroughly apostate.

I would not pay for a book that is going to make accusations against the bible which are inaccurate and contrived by unbelievers.

Kindergarteners in Sunday School have more on the ball than all of Princeton's Theological Seminary. The name should be changed to Princeton Theological Cemetery. LOL Let the dead bury the dead. You might guess I have no respect for apostate places of higher education.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That would be incorrect. You cannot merit your salvation it is by grace and not works. You cannot atone for even the least of your sins so works after grace are equally inadequate.

The saving grace of God is a continuous saving and is without end. Saved from past sins, present sins, and future sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

well the article I quoted indicated that there are very few of these 'experts' that actually think Jesus never existed or at least, in their minds, some 'form' of Jesus

the fact that even an atheist believes someone existed who fit the bill, is actually quite an admission IMO

you can't really teach 'God' like you can teach a language, history or culture

and you certainly cannot prove 'God' from the human mind

They rarely deny that Jesus lived on the earth but they question the inspiration of the scriptures by positing contradictions in the scriptures. These contradictions are never of such consequence that the original intent is compromised but just used to undermine the reliability of the texts. Higher criticism has been around for a long time and it may sound intellectual and even scientific but it is wholly without substance. In apostolic times the gnostic texts were brought forth and claimed to be teaching the complete story of Christ. These are often the texts that those who question the credibility of the bible use to discredit our bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sir, with all due respect, you haven't got an idea of what my Christian life was like. Not only did I believe with all of my being that Jesus had conquered death and payed the ultimate price for my sins, but that I also was his child. I was the child of God, bought by the blood of his son. I knew I was saved, and I knew that I was a new creature in Christ. I took this knowledge of truth and I couldn't resist telling everyone of the good news. I felt as if I was different. I felt as if I had been made a new creature. The more I learned about Jesus and God, the more I fell in love with him. There was no doubt in my mind as to the validity of the bible or of the existence of the God of the bible.

As I grew older, I realized that life was not an easy journey. I saw births, deaths, birthdays, marriages, and divorces. I went to college, traveled a bit and realized that this world was not a small one by any means. Then it hit me, out of all the long term friends that I had collected, most of them were in one way or another "Christians". Of course you can say that no one really knows if they were born again but God himself, and while that is true, most of these people were good people. They cared about their faith and about their impact on society. They truly wanted to love their neighbor and share the love that the father had once shared with them.

As time went on, these people struggled in general. All of the pastors that had become friends of mine and my family's hit rocky patches. This was a sobering moment for me. These people that I once thought of as righteous before God's eyes demonstrated to just be normal human beings. I know that as a child a particular picture is painted in your head as to what it means to be a man of God, a Christian. Obviously these were all Child like thoughts and I was now leaving that behind, I realized that God must know their hearts and it is up to him to judge, not me.

I continued in the faith, growing physically, and also growing spiritually. I also had rough areas, but I overcame all obstacles, I knew that God was faithful to forgive my transgressions because I had accepted the gift of grace given to me in the form of Jesus Christ on the Cross. I knew that this is what being born again is. You are no longer a child of the world, but a Child of the Lord.

Not only did I talk the talk, but I walked the walked. I really shaped my lifestyle to line up with my faith and my new way of being. I let the "Holy Spirit" guide my every move. I knew that God was right there, next to me. I wanted and prayed for his will to be done in my life, for him to finish the work he started in me. Prayed for the fruits of the spirit, etc.

One day, I realized that Solomon was right. The evil doers receive good things, the righteous are kicked in the dirt. Everything was vain. All the work that I had ever done was vain. All the things I'd ever aspired to do were pointless. Nothing mattered in this world because at the end we all died and decomposed in the dirt. However, I knew that I would reign one day with Christ, so that's what i had to look forward to.

I then became OBSESSED with finding more truth. I wanted to know how the prophets and the Law aligned with the new testament. I wanted to know how this cosmic composition so wonderfully and amazingly perfectly aligned with itself. A book with 40 authors, spanning over 1500 years, written across many different lands and cultures ended up here, on my desk at home. I then realized that Christianity completely revolves around this book. It is almost as if its Bliblianity, rather than Christianity.

I began to notice that Doctrine and tradition are what made people act the way they acted. I realized that there were hundreds of different views, and assemblies in the forms of denominations. I realized that very few "Christians" agreed with each other. Why would God leave a book that is meant to unite and teach his people about him, cause so much division. Why is it that when I present something I learned from the word to a pastor, or fellow Christian friend, they tell me that I did not interpret that correctly? Why is it that I started to discover apparent contradictions that no one had ever mentioned to me before?

Something was up. Either I was in the wrong Church, or maybe this bible was not as crystal clear as I once thought. I kept praying, I kept asking God and the Holy Spirit for guidance. I fasted, and prayed. Fasted some more, and prayed some more. I sought advice from my closest Christian friends and relatives, we shared meals and lots of coffee, discussing these matters.

One day, about to finish a 5 day fast, I realized something......

There is no one Christianity. Yes, most agree in the basic concepts of Jesus' death and resurrection, being born again, faith, etc...
But when it came to the details, NO ONE AGREES. Even in minute details.

So this lead me to research more and more. Until I finally realized that there is no way that the most intelligent and magnificent being that created this whole reality would want to divide its people. On the contrary, he is a being of unity. Everything in nature points to unity. His finger print is unity. The human race has long drifted from that. There is a problem with the world and the influence on humanity.

Christians call that Satan. I call it something else now.

Modern Christianity was just another structured separation scheme. Nothing in it pointed to what actually made sense. All the wars, the disagreements, ETC... I could not take it anymore and I decided to look at material produced by secular scholars as well as Christian scholars.

I eventually stopped praying, and stopped seeking God. I realized that it did not made a difference on my well being. In fact, I feel liberated and happier now that I know that God probably isn't up there blotting out names...

If I am saved I am saved, If I am not then I guess I am not.

Acts 4:13
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

It is hard to express everything that has lead me to this conclusion, But i tried to write a very concise post about how I got here, I think it only made it worse. Not sure. Take a read. Unfortunately Im very busy this weekend, But I will try to reply as much as I can.

Consider the context.

1. They were unlearned and ignorant compared or measured by the teachers of the Law, saducees and priests. Of course, they were just fishermen.
That does not mean they could not speak Greek, at least on some basic level. The context is they were not theologians in phariseism and similar.

2. Also, you must consider their mission. They could learn Greek better and better every year, knowing that they must spread the word to the world. John wrote his writings when he was already old.

3. Also, you must consider the gift of tongues. Who else should receive such gift if not apostles.

In reality GOD's way is division - separation of the holy from the unholy. World unity is the way of Babylon.

Of course. Yeah sounds about right.

Extra biblical interpretation is always necessary to accommodate what you think it actuaoly says.

You mean "thinking"?

Yes, I recommend thinking when reading.