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Would you like some help fixing the quote?
I understand your point about highlighting the word of God, though I disagree with it. Why not simply quote the word of God again in the main body of your post and highlight it there?
also in the past you had referred to the translations that I was using as new age. if you add emphasis to them because they are the word of God, then they must be the word of God in your view even if they are a new age translation.
I understand your point about highlighting the word of God, though I disagree with it. Why not simply quote the word of God again in the main body of your post and highlight it there?
also in the past you had referred to the translations that I was using as new age. if you add emphasis to them because they are the word of God, then they must be the word of God in your view even if they are a new age translation.
alterations of any kind to my posts are not acceptable to me.
here is some context
Jeremiah 6: 1. Go in flight out of Jerusalem, so that you may be safe, you children of Benjamin, and let the horn be sounded in Tekoa, and the flag be lifted up on Beth-haccherem: for evil is looking out from the north, and a great destruction. 2. The fair and delicate one, the daughter of Zion, will be cut off by my hand. 3. Keepers of sheep with their flocks will come to her; they will put up their tents round her; everyone will get food in his place. 4. Make war ready against her; up! let us go up when the sun is high. Sorrow is ours! for the day is turned and the shades of evening are stretched out. 5. Up! let us go up by night, and send destruction on her great houses. 6. For this is what the Lord of armies has said: Let trees be cut down and an earthwork be placed against Jerusalem: sorrow on the false town! inside her there is nothing but cruel ways.
is this the law of works here, or the principle of faith?
7. As the spring keeps its waters cold, so she keeps her evil in her: the sound of cruel and violent behaviour is in her; before me at all times are disease and wounds. 8. Undergo teaching, O Jerusalem, or my soul will be turned away from you, and I will make you a waste, an unpeopled land. 9. This is what the Lord of armies has said: Everything will be taken from the rest of Israel as the last grapes are taken from the vine; let your hand be turned to the small branches, like one pulling off grapes. 10. To whom am I to give word, witnessing so that they may take note? see, their ears are stopped, and they are not able to give attention: see, the word of the Lord has been a cause of shame to them, they have no delight in it. 11. For this reason I am full of the wrath of the Lord, I am tired of keeping it in: may it be let loose on the children in the street, and on the band of the young men together: for even the husband with his wife will be taken, the old man with him who is full of days.
have they considered the birds of the air here?
12. And their houses will be handed over to others, their fields and their wives together: for my hand will be stretched out against the people of the land, says the Lord. 13. For from the least of them even to the greatest, everyone is given up to getting money; from the prophet even to the priest, everyone is working deceit. 14. And they have made little of the wounds of my people, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. 15. Let them be put to shame because they have done disgusting things. They had no shame, they were not able to become red with shame: so they will come down with those who are falling: when my punishment comes on them, they will be made low, says the Lord.
Habakkuk 2: 1. I will take my position and be on watch, placing myself on my tower, looking out to see what he will say to me, and what answer he will give to my protest. 2. And the Lord gave me an answer, and said, Put the vision in writing and make it clear on stones, so that the reader may go quickly. 3. For the vision is still for the fixed time, and it is moving quickly to the end, and it will not be false: even if it is slow in coming, go on waiting for it; because it will certainly come, it will not be kept back. 4. As for the man of pride, my soul has no pleasure in him; but the upright man will have life through his good faith.
here is some context
Jeremiah 6: 1. Go in flight out of Jerusalem, so that you may be safe, you children of Benjamin, and let the horn be sounded in Tekoa, and the flag be lifted up on Beth-haccherem: for evil is looking out from the north, and a great destruction. 2. The fair and delicate one, the daughter of Zion, will be cut off by my hand. 3. Keepers of sheep with their flocks will come to her; they will put up their tents round her; everyone will get food in his place. 4. Make war ready against her; up! let us go up when the sun is high. Sorrow is ours! for the day is turned and the shades of evening are stretched out. 5. Up! let us go up by night, and send destruction on her great houses. 6. For this is what the Lord of armies has said: Let trees be cut down and an earthwork be placed against Jerusalem: sorrow on the false town! inside her there is nothing but cruel ways.
is this the law of works here, or the principle of faith?
7. As the spring keeps its waters cold, so she keeps her evil in her: the sound of cruel and violent behaviour is in her; before me at all times are disease and wounds. 8. Undergo teaching, O Jerusalem, or my soul will be turned away from you, and I will make you a waste, an unpeopled land. 9. This is what the Lord of armies has said: Everything will be taken from the rest of Israel as the last grapes are taken from the vine; let your hand be turned to the small branches, like one pulling off grapes. 10. To whom am I to give word, witnessing so that they may take note? see, their ears are stopped, and they are not able to give attention: see, the word of the Lord has been a cause of shame to them, they have no delight in it. 11. For this reason I am full of the wrath of the Lord, I am tired of keeping it in: may it be let loose on the children in the street, and on the band of the young men together: for even the husband with his wife will be taken, the old man with him who is full of days.
have they considered the birds of the air here?
12. And their houses will be handed over to others, their fields and their wives together: for my hand will be stretched out against the people of the land, says the Lord. 13. For from the least of them even to the greatest, everyone is given up to getting money; from the prophet even to the priest, everyone is working deceit. 14. And they have made little of the wounds of my people, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. 15. Let them be put to shame because they have done disgusting things. They had no shame, they were not able to become red with shame: so they will come down with those who are falling: when my punishment comes on them, they will be made low, says the Lord.
Habakkuk 2: 1. I will take my position and be on watch, placing myself on my tower, looking out to see what he will say to me, and what answer he will give to my protest. 2. And the Lord gave me an answer, and said, Put the vision in writing and make it clear on stones, so that the reader may go quickly. 3. For the vision is still for the fixed time, and it is moving quickly to the end, and it will not be false: even if it is slow in coming, go on waiting for it; because it will certainly come, it will not be kept back. 4. As for the man of pride, my soul has no pleasure in him; but the upright man will have life through his good faith.
I don't argue against faith, I argue for it. It's just that I believe we should have faith in God and His instructions and not the doctrines and traditions of man.
Can you please show me how this post addresses my #219 post? What point you are trying to make? Do you believe these scriptures relegate other scriptures void? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my 219 post.
Can you please show me how this post addresses my #219 post? What point you are trying to make? Do you believe these scriptures relegate other scriptures void? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my 219 post.
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The 10 commandments did not originate with Moses.
The 10 Commandments are eternal kingdom commandments.
Lucifer as a son of God, was removed from heaven for idolatry.
For wanting to exalt himself to a position that was held by God.
He coveted a position of authority that was not his place.
Covetousness is idolatry.
Cain murdered able and was punished.
Abraham kept His commandments and laws, 430 years before Moses gave the law.
- because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws
4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5
The Point: When the law of Moses was added to the covenant, the laws and commandments were already a part of that covenant, which Abraham kept by faith, as he receive instruction directly from the Lord, the way Adam was called to do.
Abraham had victory in this and obtained this testimony from the Lord because he obeyed the call to "walk before Me and be blameless"
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1
Walk with me in My Presences and be blameless.
The same applies today.
Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Abraham served the same Lord, and walked in the obedience of faith, leaving us an example and pattern of righteousness.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
- the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
JPT
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I want to address your quote which I am copying and pasting below. It is not altered in any way, not High lighted. It is presented exactly as you posted it in the exact quote above.
"God, speaking through his servants the prophets and the apostles, convinced me that the law is a burden."
You used "parts" of Numbers 4 (verses 11-15) as your support for this religious doctrine.
I am posting the parts of Numbers 4 which show us who God was instructing and what the instruction was for.
Num. 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
2 Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers,
3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.
So God gave specific duties to a specific Tribe, Levi and his sons, for a specific Priesthood which symbolically foreshadowed the perfect sacrifice of the Messiah.
Duties that you are not now, nor were you ever to partake of, in fact, had you been there and attempted to perform these "Burdensome Laws" you would have been killed.
And may I remind you that Aaron, the Levite, and his son's are no longer in charge of the Sanctuary, and have not been in charge since Jesus changed the Priesthood and became our High Priest. (Though the Jews couldn't accept this truth and continued to preach justification by these Priesthood duties, or as Paul calls them "Works or Deeds of the Law")
So even if you were of the tribe of Levi, you would no longer be held "under the law" that was Added until the "SEED" should come.
You said if I followed certain guidelines for posting you would reply.
So my question to you is:
Why do you use scriptures to justify your preaching that God's Laws are burdensome, that were never directed towards you, but to a specific Tribe of Israel to become a Priesthood which has been changed by Jesus centuries ago?
"God, speaking through his servants the prophets and the apostles, convinced me that the law is a burden."
You used "parts" of Numbers 4 (verses 11-15) as your support for this religious doctrine.
I am posting the parts of Numbers 4 which show us who God was instructing and what the instruction was for.
Num. 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
2 Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers,
3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.
So God gave specific duties to a specific Tribe, Levi and his sons, for a specific Priesthood which symbolically foreshadowed the perfect sacrifice of the Messiah.
Duties that you are not now, nor were you ever to partake of, in fact, had you been there and attempted to perform these "Burdensome Laws" you would have been killed.
And may I remind you that Aaron, the Levite, and his son's are no longer in charge of the Sanctuary, and have not been in charge since Jesus changed the Priesthood and became our High Priest. (Though the Jews couldn't accept this truth and continued to preach justification by these Priesthood duties, or as Paul calls them "Works or Deeds of the Law")
So even if you were of the tribe of Levi, you would no longer be held "under the law" that was Added until the "SEED" should come.
You said if I followed certain guidelines for posting you would reply.
So my question to you is:
Why do you use scriptures to justify your preaching that God's Laws are burdensome, that were never directed towards you, but to a specific Tribe of Israel to become a Priesthood which has been changed by Jesus centuries ago?
Since you are the authority on posting I am going to follow your format perfectly so maybe you will respond to the actual post.
12 And Saul said, Hear now, thou son of Ahitub. And he answered, Here I am, my lord.
13 And Saul said unto him, Why have ye conspired against me, thou and the son of Jesse, in that thou hast given him bread, and a sword, and hast enquired of God for him, that he should rise against me, to lie in wait, as at this day?
14 Then Ahimelech answered the king, and said, And who is so faithful among all thy servants as David, which is the king's son in law, and goeth at thy bidding, and is honourable in thine house? "David wasn't just anybody, what would you have had the Priest do? was the Law intended to help people or hurt them. Is it just coincidence that David was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, yet he was given the showbread by the High Priest, same as Jesus?15 Did I then begin to enquire of God for him? be it far from me: let not the king impute any thing unto his servant, nor to all the house of my father: for thy servant knew nothing of all this, less or more.16 And the king said, Thou shalt surely die, Ahimelech, thou, and all thy father's house. "So if you believe in the Pharisees, and King Saul, which had the same spirit, you would declare as you do, that David and the Priest sinned. If that's what the spirit on you teaches these scriptures are about, then so be it. I don't believe the Word which became Flesh created this "Example" for my admonition, to teach me to reject God's Commandments, or create my own religious traditions, or to use it to make Void all His other Words, before and after, regarding His Holy Sabbath.22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
So you answer a question. In your understanding of the God of Abraham, did He create the Priesthood and the Priesthood duties to help His People, or to rule over them?
I find it absolutely fascinating how far men in the Bible went to preserve their own religion. Saul tried to kill David, The Pharisees killed their own Messiah, all to preserve their own religious traditions and doctrines.
In your zeal to do the same thing, I fear you have missed the most important lesson Jesus created for us in these examples. And it wasn't to teach us it's OK to transgress His Commandments. IMO.
12 And Saul said, Hear now, thou son of Ahitub. And he answered, Here I am, my lord.
13 And Saul said unto him, Why have ye conspired against me, thou and the son of Jesse, in that thou hast given him bread, and a sword, and hast enquired of God for him, that he should rise against me, to lie in wait, as at this day?
14 Then Ahimelech answered the king, and said, And who is so faithful among all thy servants as David, which is the king's son in law, and goeth at thy bidding, and is honourable in thine house? "David wasn't just anybody, what would you have had the Priest do? was the Law intended to help people or hurt them. Is it just coincidence that David was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, yet he was given the showbread by the High Priest, same as Jesus?15 Did I then begin to enquire of God for him? be it far from me: let not the king impute any thing unto his servant, nor to all the house of my father: for thy servant knew nothing of all this, less or more.16 And the king said, Thou shalt surely die, Ahimelech, thou, and all thy father's house. "So if you believe in the Pharisees, and King Saul, which had the same spirit, you would declare as you do, that David and the Priest sinned. If that's what the spirit on you teaches these scriptures are about, then so be it. I don't believe the Word which became Flesh created this "Example" for my admonition, to teach me to reject God's Commandments, or create my own religious traditions, or to use it to make Void all His other Words, before and after, regarding His Holy Sabbath.22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
So you answer a question. In your understanding of the God of Abraham, did He create the Priesthood and the Priesthood duties to help His People, or to rule over them?
I find it absolutely fascinating how far men in the Bible went to preserve their own religion. Saul tried to kill David, The Pharisees killed their own Messiah, all to preserve their own religious traditions and doctrines.
In your zeal to do the same thing, I fear you have missed the most important lesson Jesus created for us in these examples. And it wasn't to teach us it's OK to transgress His Commandments. IMO.
Romans 16:25-27
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
In context this reads much differently than how it's presented in previous post.
It reads as though the prophets wrote of the mystery of Christ just as God commanded them to write, or that the Law testifies of the mystery now revealed in Him the same way that the prophets do. All scripture testifies of Christ.
This verse does not show the premise that the 10 commandments are the eternal basis of righteousness or that they are the gospel or that they are ubiquitously known by all creatures over all time. It does not show that they were specifically commanded before Sinai. This passage is about Jesus Christ, not about a written code.
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
In context this reads much differently than how it's presented in previous post.
It reads as though the prophets wrote of the mystery of Christ just as God commanded them to write, or that the Law testifies of the mystery now revealed in Him the same way that the prophets do. All scripture testifies of Christ.
This verse does not show the premise that the 10 commandments are the eternal basis of righteousness or that they are the gospel or that they are ubiquitously known by all creatures over all time. It does not show that they were specifically commanded before Sinai. This passage is about Jesus Christ, not about a written code.
Romans 16:25-27
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
'the command of the eternal God' in this passage seems to me to be referring to one of four things:
He commanded the prophets to write the mystery.
He commanded the mystery of the gospel to be written.
He commanded the mystery to be revealed.
He commanded Paul to proclaim the revealed mystery.
It *could* refer to the Law only in the sense that the Law testifies of Christ in its being a mysterious shadow of Him the same way that the prophets wrote things about Him which were never understood until His appearing. That's a really loose association though, to my understanding, because the primary subject is the mystery of Christ, and the secondary one being that He was testified of specifically through the prophets. Certainly the Law testifies of Him also, all of it. If we're reading a reference to the Law it's to all of it as an whole not just a part.
I don't see any way at all that this text can be understood to be a reference to the decalogue, much less that it could be saying that the 10 commandments by themselves are eternal as God is eternal. I really don't think this has anything to do with the decalogue at all.
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
'the command of the eternal God' in this passage seems to me to be referring to one of four things:
He commanded the prophets to write the mystery.
He commanded the mystery of the gospel to be written.
He commanded the mystery to be revealed.
He commanded Paul to proclaim the revealed mystery.
It *could* refer to the Law only in the sense that the Law testifies of Christ in its being a mysterious shadow of Him the same way that the prophets wrote things about Him which were never understood until His appearing. That's a really loose association though, to my understanding, because the primary subject is the mystery of Christ, and the secondary one being that He was testified of specifically through the prophets. Certainly the Law testifies of Him also, all of it. If we're reading a reference to the Law it's to all of it as an whole not just a part.
I don't see any way at all that this text can be understood to be a reference to the decalogue, much less that it could be saying that the 10 commandments by themselves are eternal as God is eternal. I really don't think this has anything to do with the decalogue at all.
On these two commandments hang all the law.
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40
Some have confused this to mean the law of Moses, which was added to the Covenant, temporarily, until the Seed should come.
Love is the sum of His commandments.
If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?
If we worship other gods, is that loving God?
If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?
If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?
If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.
Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.
Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing
Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.
We love God, by obeying His commandment to love our neighbor.
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21
The way we love God who we can not see, is by loving our neighbor who we can see.
Love does no harm.
Jesus says it this way on the Day of Judgement -
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-40
JPT
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40
Some have confused this to mean the law of Moses, which was added to the Covenant, temporarily, until the Seed should come.
Love is the sum of His commandments.
If we murder our neighbor, do we love him?
If we worship other gods, is that loving God?
If we steal from our neighbor, is that love?
If we make carved images and bow down to them, is that loving God?
If we are coveting our neighbors things, that is idolatry.
Loving God and loving our neighbor, is a choice.
Love is a verb, not a noun; a thing
Love requires obeying; if you love me, keep my commandments.
We love God, by obeying His commandment to love our neighbor.
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21
The way we love God who we can not see, is by loving our neighbor who we can see.
Love does no harm.
Jesus says it this way on the Day of Judgement -
- inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-40
JPT