Preston, I understand your position, but all scriptures must compliment each other and not contradict each other. Repenting, believing, confessing, obedience, and many other commandments God has instructed his children to do to earn salvation, not eternal salvation, but a salvation we can enjoy right here on this earth, Salvation according to the Greek definition means "a deliverance". We are delivered from many things as we live here on this earth when we obey God's commandments, such as, when we have an illness and ask God to heal us of that illness and when he does, that is a deliverance ( salvation ). Somewhere, I think it is in Proverbs where God says "there are six things I hate, yea, even seven, and at the top of the list is a proud look ( pride ). God wants us to depend upon him for every thing and not upon our own understanding. I, very much of the time, find myself depending upon my own understanding and have been chastened by God for it. I think that we all have too much pride. Depending upon ones self to get to heaven is not pleasing to God, and is an action that tries to limit his power ( Dan 4:16 ). I think that before anyone can understand Christ's doctrine they must be able to know the difference in those deliverance. I believe that more salvation scriptures have reference to deliverance as we live our lives here on this earth than do the ones pertaining to our eternal salvation.
Predestination or free will?
- Thread starter calibob
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I believe that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, that is void of the Spirit will not even consider that there is a God, because God is a Spirit, and we must worship him in spirit and truth, John 4:24, and the natural man cannot discern spiritual things. He also loves the state of sin that he is in.
Just for salvation and the choices related to that. I do not think it is really healthy knowing that God knows the outcomes of our choices. It is real easy to get cocky and overconfident while serving God. That usually brings on chastisement and a humbling experience.
God can use us mightily and still let us turn away and be lost in the end. Look at Solomon, we have two books written by him but he still turned to idolatry in the end. I think he had too much wisdom and got cocky. All said and done, we need to work out our salvation soberly with a fixed heart.
God can use us mightily and still let us turn away and be lost in the end. Look at Solomon, we have two books written by him but he still turned to idolatry in the end. I think he had too much wisdom and got cocky. All said and done, we need to work out our salvation soberly with a fixed heart.
Just for salvation and the choices related to that. I do not think it is really healthy knowing that God knows the outcomes of our choices. It is real easy to get cocky and overconfident while serving God. That usually brings on chastisement and a humbling experience.
God can use us mightily and still let us turn away and be lost in the end. Look at Solomon, we have two books written by him but he still turned to idolatry in the end. I think he had too much wisdom and got cocky. All said and done, we need to work out our salvation soberly with a fixed heart.
God can use us mightily and still let us turn away and be lost in the end. Look at Solomon, we have two books written by him but he still turned to idolatry in the end. I think he had too much wisdom and got cocky. All said and done, we need to work out our salvation soberly with a fixed heart.
Jewel, We must keep the scriptures in context. The people that Paul is talking about is in verse 1, and they are those people who have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. We, as children of God, can experience a deliverance ( salvation ) here on this earth by an understanding of the truth of Christ's doctrine. I guess you are listening to some false teaching, and not understanding my explanation of the two different types of deliverance.. If Paul was talking about the natural man, void of the Spirit, they would not understand a word he is saying about those spiritual commandments.
Ephesians 1 clearly states that God has predestined those who are already in Him, in Christ. Predestination has nothing to do with salvation, but what is afforded in the future to those who are in Christ. The destination of those in Christ is the future adoption which is the redemption of the body (Romans 8:23). It is the future hope of the believer who is in Christ.
1 Cor. 6:9, 10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Nuff said.
In the scriptures, there are many names that the church is called by, such as, The Kingdom of God ( Mark 9:1, And he said unto them, verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the Kingdom of God come with power. ) Luke 16:16, The Law and the prophets were until John, since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. church of God, little flock ( Luke 12:32, Fear not little flock for it is the Father's pleasure to give you the kingdom ), church of the first born Hebrews 12:23. None of the sins listed in this scripture will enter into heaven, but some of the people who have commit them will, What about David the apple of God's eye? What about Paul. None of the people that are doing these sins will not be permitted to enter into the church. .
In the matter of adoption herein the US, First you pick out the one you want to adopt, second, you pay the price of the adoption, third, you go and pick the child up and take him home with you. First God picked out the children he wanted ( Eph 1:4 ) Second, God sent his Son to this earth to pay the price for the children he choose ( John 6:37-40 ). You are right, the third, and last step to complete the adoption is when Christ comes and takes us home.
The church was never referred to as the "kingdom." Christ Himself said to Pilate His kingdom was heavenly.
John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
Preston, I respect your desire to hold on to the scriptures that you have been taught as to your eternal salvation. My understanding and belief is different than yours, and it took me many years of studying and the revelation of the Holy Spirit within me to settle on the belief that I have, I was 62 years old before the scriptures began to harmonize and not (seemingly) contradict. I believe that the prophets of old were inspired in their writings by God himself. I further believe that the scriptures contained in the King James bible are instruction letters mostly written to the churches ( God's children ) as instructions as to how God's children should live their lives while they live here on this earth. I am sorry about injecting so much information about myself, but thought it might help you to understand why I uphold certain scriptures to explain my belief.
The church was never referred to as the "kingdom." Christ Himself said to Pilate His kingdom was heavenly.
John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."