YOKE OF BONDAGE

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Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#301
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#301
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
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I too believe what the Bible says about faith.
Hebrews 11: 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true. 2. For by it our fathers had God's approval. 3. By faith it is clear to us that the order of events was fixed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made from things which only seem to be.
yes there certainly were a lot of people in the scriptures that didn't have faith, as well as a lot of people who did. Probably why few people find the road to life but a lot of people find the road to death.
Matthew 7: 27. And the rain came down and there was a rush of waters and the winds were driving against that house; and it came down and great was its fall.
but now let's see faith is the same as works? Is that what you're saying?Matthew 8: 1. When he came down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 2. Behold, a leper came to him and worshiped him, saying, "Lord, if you want to, you can make me clean." 3. Jesus stretched out his hand, and touched him, saying, "I want to. Be made clean." Immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4. Jesus said to him, "See that you tell nobody, but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them." 5. When he came into Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking him, 6. and saying, "Lord, my servant lies in the house paralyzed, grievously tormented." 7. Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him." 8. The centurion answered, "Lord, I'm not worthy for you to come under my roof. Just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9. For I am also a man under authority, having under myself soldiers. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and tell another, 'Come,' and he comes; and tell my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it." 10. When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to those who followed, "Most certainly I tell you, I haven't found so great a faith, not even in Israel. 11. I tell you that many will come from the east and the west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven, 12. but the children of the Kingdom will be thrown out into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13. Jesus said to the centurion, "Go your way. Let it be done for you as you have believed." His servant was healed in that hour.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#302
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#302
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
Click to expand...
what do we know about the Centurion? only that he was a centurion, and that he had great faith.
Romans 4: 1. What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh?
Romans 4: 3. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
and of course lest anyone think I only quoted certain versus out of that Passage Romans 3: 21. But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets; 22. even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, 23. for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24. being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; 25. whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance; 26. to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus. 27. Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28. We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29. Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn't he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30. since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith. 31. Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.
Romans 4: 1. What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2. For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God. 3. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4. Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5. But to him who doesn't work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6. Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works, 7. "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8. Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin." 9. Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10. How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11. He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them. 12. He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision. 13. For the promise to Abraham and to his seed that he should be heir of the world wasn't through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14. For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of no effect. 15. For the law works wrath, for where there is no law, neither is there disobedience. 16. For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. 17. As it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations." This is in the presence of him whom he believed: God, who gives life to the dead, and calls the things that are not, as though they were. 18. Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, "So will your seed be." 19. Without being weakened in faith, he didn't consider his own body, already having been worn out, (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20. Yet, looking to the promise of God, he didn't waver through unbelief, but grew strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21. and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was also able to perform. 22. Therefore it also was "reckoned to him for righteousness." 23. Now it was not written that it was accounted to him for his sake alone, 24. but for our sake also, to whom it will be accounted, who believe in him who raised Jesus, our Lord, from the dead, 25. who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification. Romans 5: 1. Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2. through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3. Not only this, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering works perseverance; 4. and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope: 5. and hope doesn't disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6. For while we were yet weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7. For one will hardly die for a righteous man. Yet perhaps for a righteous person someone would even dare to die. 8. But God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God's wrath through him. 10. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#303
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#303
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
Click to expand...
exactly! Choose God's works and thoughts!
John 4: 31. In the meanwhile, the disciples urged him, saying, "Rabbi, eat." 32. But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you don't know about." 33. The disciples therefore said one to another, "Has anyone brought him something to eat?" 34. Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work. 35. Don't you say, 'There are yet four months until the harvest?' Behold, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and look at the fields, that they are white for harvest already. 36. He who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit to eternal life; that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37. For in this the saying is true, 'One sows, and another reaps.' 38. I sent you to reap that for which you haven't labored. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor." 39. From that city many of the Samaritans believed in him because of the word of the woman, who testified, "He told me everything that I did."
John 6: 26. Jesus answered them, "Most certainly I tell you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. 27. Don't work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him." 28. They said therefore to him, "What must we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29. Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." 30. They said therefore to him, "What then do you do for a sign, that we may see, and believe you? What work do you do? 31. Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness. As it is written, 'He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.'" 32. Jesus therefore said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, it wasn't Moses who gave you the bread out of heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#304
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
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113
#304
Dan_473 said:
but yes it is true that some of God's Commandments are too difficult, rather impossible to perform. That is why by The Works of the law no flesh can be justified. There is no set of activities you can do with your hands, or inactivities, through which you can become Justified with God. Because trying to do things with your hands to be justified with God will, hopefully, give you the knowledge that such an Endeavor is useless. thus bringing to your attention your need for a savior, Jesus Christ.

I think that what Peter and James are saying in Acts chapter 15 is that whether you look at just the written law, as the Sadducees did I'm told, or if you included Traditions handed down through the centuries, the supposedly oral tradition, that the Pharisees used, either way one will still not be able to please God. one will still not be able to do it.

James does come up with four guidelines to help people who grow up as Jews and Gentiles worship together in the same church. you can see the four guidelines and Acts chapter 15 are basically ways of avoiding overt displays of idol worship, of appearing to worship idols. Not of course that the Gentiles actually were worshipping the idols. But, they might be interested in getting some nice cheap meat from the Temple of Apollo. that's not really a problem for one who knows that Apollo isn't anything, but it can be a big problem for Jews if they attend the same potluck.

so I believe you misunderstand my suggestion about acts 15.

at this point in your post, I believe you begin to argue directly with a straw man.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to preach or not. You may actually be preaching something incoherent, which would explain why other people aren't accepting it. It does sound to me like what you're saying in your post is very similar to the approach to Salvation that the Jehovah's Witnesses at my door preach.
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LOL, that is the "Go to" for mainstream preachers. "Strawman" and "you must be SDA. JW, Mormon.

but yes it is true that some of God's Commandments are too difficult, rather impossible to perform. That is why by The Works of the law no flesh can be justified. There is no set of activities you can do with your hands, or inactivities, through which you can become Justified with God. Because trying to do things with your hands to be justified with God will, hopefully, give you the knowledge that such an Endeavor is useless. thus bringing to your attention your need for a savior, Jesus Christ.
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I do indeed need a Savior, but how is it you preach what He instructs me to do is impossible? Aren't all things possible with the Christ? And how is striving to do as Jesus instructs trying to be justified by my own hands? You preach God created instructions impossible to follow, but He says His Commandments are not Grievous. Which of God's instructions were impossible for Jesus to follow?

Did Zechariahs do the impossible? Did Abraham? Is this not a relevant question?

And what were the "Works of the Law" that were specifically instituted for the justification of sins, "until the Seed should come"?

I have asked this question many times but you and many on this forum refuse to answer.

What did Moses specifically instruct a person to do for his sins to be atoned for? Did they have to find a Levite Priest? Did the Levite Priest perform certain "Deeds or Works" for the remission of sins.

Was Israel ever given instructions to cleanse their own sin? Or were they required to "Find the Priest" for their sins to be atoned for?

I think that what Peter and James are saying in Acts chapter 15 is that whether you look at just the written law, as the Sadducees did I'm told, or if you included Traditions handed down through the centuries, the supposedly oral tradition, that the Pharisees used, either way one will still not be able to please God. one will still not be able to do it.
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What did Jesus say about the Pharisees? That they followed the "Written Law", or that they transgressed the "written Law"? Did Zechariahs keep the "written Law"? Are you saying God wasn't pleased with Abraham and Zechariahs or anyone else who repents and choose His way or the religious ways of man?? Are you preaching that it doesn't matter if we Glorify God or not?

Are these question incoherent? Am I a reprobate because I consider what the Bible says, and am not interested in consensus among various religious men? There are folks on this forum that see things just as I see them. Not "many", I'll give you that. Should I consider other voices in my decision whether or not to follow God's instructions?

I believe you have been hoodwinked by modern religions regarding what the "Works" of the Law for remission of sins were before Jesus changed the Priesthood. This foundational issue is important since some much doctrine is placed on it.

And I'm not sure the Apostles gave the Gentiles command to follow 4 of God's Commandments in order not to offend a religious people who just killed Stephen. Maybe, just maybe, the Apostles gave the Gentiles those commands because they were God's Commandments, not traditions of man that the Pharisees taught and called "the Law of Moses".
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#305
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#305
Dan_473 said:
what do we know about the Centurion? only that he was a centurion, and that he had great faith.
Romans 4: 1. What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh?
Romans 4: 3. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
and of course lest anyone think I only quoted certain versus out of that Passage Romans 3: 21. But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets; 22. even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, 23. for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24. being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; 25. whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance; 26. to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus. 27. Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28. We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29. Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn't he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30. since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith. 31. Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.
Romans 4: 1. What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? 2. For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God. 3. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4. Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed. 5. But to him who doesn't work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. 6. Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works, 7. "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8. Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin." 9. Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10. How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11. He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them. 12. He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision. 13. For the promise to Abraham and to his seed that he should be heir of the world wasn't through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14. For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of no effect. 15. For the law works wrath, for where there is no law, neither is there disobedience. 16. For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. 17. As it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations." This is in the presence of him whom he believed: God, who gives life to the dead, and calls the things that are not, as though they were. 18. Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, "So will your seed be." 19. Without being weakened in faith, he didn't consider his own body, already having been worn out, (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20. Yet, looking to the promise of God, he didn't waver through unbelief, but grew strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21. and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was also able to perform. 22. Therefore it also was "reckoned to him for righteousness." 23. Now it was not written that it was accounted to him for his sake alone, 24. but for our sake also, to whom it will be accounted, who believe in him who raised Jesus, our Lord, from the dead, 25. who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification. Romans 5: 1. Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2. through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3. Not only this, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering works perseverance; 4. and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope: 5. and hope doesn't disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. 6. For while we were yet weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7. For one will hardly die for a righteous man. Yet perhaps for a righteous person someone would even dare to die. 8. But God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God's wrath through him. 10. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life.
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Romans 3: 21. But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;

Apart from what Law? "Love God and Love your neighbor?", don't steal?

No Dan. Paul is arguing with a religion who doesn't believe Jesus is the High Priest. They are still following their version of the Levitical Priesthood and it's "works of the Law" for justification of sins. This is talking about how Abraham was justified. Not by the "works or Deeds" of the Law given from Moses for the atonement of sins. But by Faith in God shown by His obedience. You have, once again, completely ignored the entire point of the post. Romans 4 doesn't make void the scriptures of my post. They make my point.

Abraham had God's Laws, heard God's Word's and followed them, Zechariahs did the same thing. AS a result of this "Glorifying God" Jesus manifested Himself to them.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

He said the same thing as the Word.

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Abraham's sin was atoned "apart from the Law" of atonement given by Moses 430 years after Abraham. He received a promise, not because some Levite performed a Work of the Law, but because Abraham believed in God enough to follow the instructions God gave him.

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

For this "belief" he was blessed.

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Your preaching that Abraham was justified apart from ALL of God's instructions is a deceit if the Bible is our guide. He was justified, not by atonement laws given 430 years later, but because he was faithful to God. Eve was given instruction as well, but she didn't believe in God enough to follow His instructions.

How is this not true?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#306
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#306
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
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Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 See the birds of the sky, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of much more value than they? 27 "And which of you, by being anxious, can add one cubit to his height? 28And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They do not toil, neither do they spin, 29 yet I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was not dressed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won't he much more clothe you, you of little faith? 31 "Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?'32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things
which of course fits nicely with letting our light shine!
Matthew 5: 13. "You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its flavor, with what will it be salted? It is then good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men. 14. You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can't be hidden. 15. Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house. 16. Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
I'm not sure why you bring up the idea of the religious traditions of the land. It sounds to me like you're kind of saying something like this. one person says that the USA is building up its military. another person says that's just what Hitler did. the attempt is being made to associate the person who believes in a military buildup with everything else that Hitler also believed. it's kind of a guilt by association. so is there a religious tradition that says we are justified by faith, apart from works? Yes, I believe that it's also found it on the scriptures. Do many of the people in that same religious tradition also believe that there is one God? Sure. do some of the people who believe those things also believe that it says in the Book of Revelation that it was written by the Apostle John? Probably. But simply because they were wrong about that last thing doesn't mean that they were wrong about the other things. so, does guilt by association make sense to you?
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#307
Oct 11, 2017
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#307
Dan_473 said:
exactly! Choose God's works and thoughts!
John 4: 31. In the meanwhile, the disciples urged him, saying, "Rabbi, eat." 32. But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you don't know about." 33. The disciples therefore said one to another, "Has anyone brought him something to eat?" 34. Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work. 35. Don't you say, 'There are yet four months until the harvest?' Behold, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and look at the fields, that they are white for harvest already. 36. He who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit to eternal life; that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37. For in this the saying is true, 'One sows, and another reaps.' 38. I sent you to reap that for which you haven't labored. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor." 39. From that city many of the Samaritans believed in him because of the word of the woman, who testified, "He told me everything that I did."
John 6: 26. Jesus answered them, "Most certainly I tell you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. 27. Don't work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him." 28. They said therefore to him, "What must we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29. Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." 30. They said therefore to him, "What then do you do for a sign, that we may see, and believe you? What work do you do? 31. Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness. As it is written, 'He gave them bread out of heaven to eat.'" 32. Jesus therefore said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, it wasn't Moses who gave you the bread out of heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
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"Don't work for the food which perishes, but (Work) for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For God the Father has sealed him."

"But Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness"

8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."

Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#308
Jul 31, 2013
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#308
Lamentations 3:25-27
The LORD [is] good unto them that wait for him, to the soul [that] seeketh him. [It is] good that [a man] should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. [It is] good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.

Galatians 3:22-26
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#310
Oct 11, 2017
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#310
Dan_473 said:
Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 See the birds of the sky, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of much more value than they? 27 "And which of you, by being anxious, can add one cubit to his height? 28And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow. They do not toil, neither do they spin, 29 yet I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was not dressed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won't he much more clothe you, you of little faith? 31 "Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What will we eat?', 'What will we drink?' or, 'With what will we be clothed?'32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things
which of course fits nicely with letting our light shine!
Matthew 5: 13. "You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its flavor, with what will it be salted? It is then good for nothing, but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men. 14. You are the light of the world. A city located on a hill can't be hidden. 15. Neither do you light a lamp, and put it under a measuring basket, but on a stand; and it shines to all who are in the house. 16. Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
I'm not sure why you bring up the idea of the religious traditions of the land. It sounds to me like you're kind of saying something like this. one person says that the USA is building up its military. another person says that's just what Hitler did. the attempt is being made to associate the person who believes in a military buildup with everything else that Hitler also believed. it's kind of a guilt by association. so is there a religious tradition that says we are justified by faith, apart from works? Yes, I believe that it's also found it on the scriptures. Do many of the people in that same religious tradition also believe that there is one God? Sure. do some of the people who believe those things also believe that it says in the Book of Revelation that it was written by the Apostle John? Probably. But simply because they were wrong about that last thing doesn't mean that they were wrong about the other things. so, does guilt by association make sense to you?
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This reply really doesn't address the post I wrote. If there is something you believe is Biblically incorrect, please reply as to what was written and why you believe it doesn't align with scriptures.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#311
Oct 11, 2017
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#311
posthuman said:
Did Saul of Tarsus?

Scripture says same thing of both of them: 'blameless' with regard to the Law.
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The scriptures do not say the same thing about both.

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, (Pharisees Law) blameless.

Paul explains in another letter the same thing.

Gal. 1:
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. ( Doctrines created from the Commandments of man)

It is Biblical fact that the Pharisees created their own doctrines from the commandments of men, not God.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as you falsely preach)

4 For they (Not God as you preach)bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Neither Saul not the Pharisees obeyed God's Commandments, rather, they followed religious traditions they created from the vision of their own mind as it is written and prophesied all over the Law and Prophets.. AS a result, they didn't know Jesus.

But Zechariahs was different.

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Did Zechariahs persecute the Church of God? No, his son was an important member of the church of God while Saul and the Pharisees were killing innocent men.

Did Zechariahs follow the traditions of the Fathers? No, it says He was obedient to God.

And like Jesus promised in John 14:21, He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, (Like Abraham and Zechariahs) he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I believe this explains why Zechariahs knew Jesus when He came, and Saul and the Pharisees did not.

Your preaching that there was no difference between Zechariahs and Saul and the Pharisees is not supported by scriptures.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#312
Oct 11, 2017
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#312
posthuman said:
Lamentations 3:25-27
The LORD [is] good unto them that wait for him, to the soul [that] seeketh him. [It is] good that [a man] should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. [It is] good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.

Galatians 3:22-26
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Levitical Priesthood with it's ceremonial, sacrificial "Word and deeds" of the Law for atonement were to lead us to Christ, which is what the Priesthood foreshadowed, what the "blood" symbolized. So once we understand this truth, we are no longer "under the Law" but are justified by our faith as Abraham was justified by his Faith.

[It is] good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.
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Matt. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt. 16:
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#314
Mar 11, 2014
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#314
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
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Revelation 7: 9. After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands. 10. They cried with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation be to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11. All the angels were standing around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before his throne, and worshiped God, 12. saying, "Amen! Blessing, glory, wisdom, thanksgiving, honor, power, and might, be to our God forever and ever! Amen."
so while I agree that there are lots of problems we see in the world of Christendom today, there will also be a multitude without number in the presence of God at the End of the Age!
and yes there are many deceptive voices in the world today. I'm thankful for the Holy Spirit
"I have said all these things to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues, but an hour is coming when whoever kills you will think that he is offering a service to God. 3They will do these things because they have not known the Father or me. 4But I have told you these things, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I did not tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6But because I have told you these things, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper won't come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, and about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, and you won't see me any more; 11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged. 12"I have yet many things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now. 13However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak on his own; but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you things that are coming. 14He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine; that is why I said that he takes of mine, and will declare it to you. 16 A little while, and you will no longer see me. Again a little while, and you will see me." 17 Some of his disciples therefore said to one another, "What is this that he says to us, 'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me;' and, 'Because I go to the Father?'" 18 They said therefore, "What is this that he says, 'A little while?' We do not know what he is saying." 19 Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him, so he said to them, "Do you inquire among yourselves concerning this, that I said, 'A little while, and you won't see me, and again a little while, and you will see me?' 20 Truly, truly, I tell you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy. 21 A woman, when she gives birth, has pain, because her time has come. But when she has delivered the child, she does not remember the anguish any more, for the joy that a human being is born into the world. 22Therefore you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#315
Jul 31, 2013
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#315
Studyman said:
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, (Pharisees Law) blameless.
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Why do you stick your own words into the middle of scripture as though they belong there?

Don't you fear God??

:eek:
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#316
Jul 31, 2013
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#316
Studyman said:
Yes, the Levitical Priesthood with it's ceremonial, sacrificial "Word and deeds" of the Law for atonement were to lead us to Christ, which is what the Priesthood foreshadowed, what the "blood" symbolized.
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all the Law leads to Christ.
all the scripture testifies of Him.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#317
Oct 11, 2017
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#317
posthuman said:
Why do you stick your own words into the middle of scripture as though they belong there?

Don't you fear God??

:eek:
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I placed them there, (in parenthesis) to expose your false teaching that Paul is making the claim that He was an obedient servant to God before his conversion, as Luke said Zechariahs was. He is saying, as he said in other letters, that he was a faithful, zealous Pharisee, and followed the "Law" of the "Jews religion" that Jesus said they created, while he was persecuting innocent people, which was also against God's Commandments.

"as touching the law, a Pharisee".

Had Paul submitted himself to the righteous of God, like Zechariahs, instead of submitting himself to the "traditions of the Fathers" which also persecuted the church of God, (murdered the Prophets) then he would have known Jesus when He came as Zechariahs did.

I realize you can not accept this Biblical truth, but there are others who are reading along and I wanted to point out the Biblical difference between What Paul said about himself, and what Luke said about Zechariahs.

The rest of the post, which you ignore, makes this abundantly clear as folks interested in Seeking the truth of the Bible will clearly see.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#318
Mar 11, 2014
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#318
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
Click to expand...
2 Corinthians 3: 4. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God; 5. not that we are sufficient of ourselves, to account anything as from ourselves; but our sufficiency is from God; 6. who also made us sufficient as servants of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7. But if the service of death, written engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the children of Israel could not look steadfastly on the face of Moses for the glory of his face; which was passing away: 8. won't service of the Spirit be with much more glory? 9. For if the service of condemnation has glory, the service of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10. For most certainly that which has been made glorious has not been made glorious in this respect, by reason of the glory that surpasses. 11. For if that which passes away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
I agree that the New Covenant involves a change in priesthood. I think it is also a lot more. The old Covenant used the letter. the New Covenant, the spirit. what is it about the letter that brings death? Is it not the actions of our hands? I don't think God changed his definition of sin. nor do I think that God made immaterial the Law and Prophets.
Ask, and it will be given to you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or who is there among you, who, if his son will ask him for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he will ask for a fish, who will give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him. 12Therefore whatever you desire for people to do to you, do also to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 "Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. 14How narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way that leads to life. Few are those who find it. 15"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore, by their fruits you will know them. 21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did not we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' 23 And then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'
we see the Jesus tells us what the law and the prophets is.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#319
Mar 11, 2014
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#319
Studyman said:
I believe what the Bible teaches about Faith. That Eve didn't have it but Abraham did. That Cain didn't have it but Abel did. That many in Israel didn't have it, but Caleb did. That Saul and the Pharisees didn't have it but Zechariahs did. And the one thing that separated them was their "WORKS". One side of the example chose "man's" thoughts and works, while the other side of the example chose "God's" Words and Works. These all "Let their Light shine", they didn't have some secret respect and honor for God that they hid in their mind while following the religious traditions of the land.

I also know that very cleaver, very subtle voices are at work which sound reasonable, which sound righteous to man, but are there to convince religious man, as they did Eve, to question and reason within ourselves the relevance of God's instruction. And Jesus Himself said "many" would choose it's voice over God's. I think the evidence of this in Mainstream religion is over whelming.

The New Covenant is exactly what Jesus said it was. A change in the Priesthood. How sin's are forgiven, formally involved Levite Priest's performing "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

And how God's Law is administered, formally given to the people though the Levite Priests.

There is nowhere that your actions or my actions are even mentioned. How religious man can use Jer. 31 to preach God changed His definition of sin, or made immaterial the Law and Prophets is astounding. And the fact that so "many" people buy into this preaching is truly a testimony of wisdom and foresight of the Word which became Flesh when He told us in Jeremiah 5 and 6.

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

So yes, I do believe our actions show our Faith, and our works show what or who we have faith in. And the Lord's Holy, Sanctified, set apart Sabbath is a Work of Almighty God. Walking in it is walking in the Spirit. This is why I don't believe what you preach about God's Instructions, because they are from the Light of the World, and the Righteous examples of the Bible chose them over other voices to guides their footsteps.

I believe that Jesus intended for us to choose Him as well?
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a lot of people do by end of deceptive teaching about Covenants, about the New Covenant. I think it's prophesied here as well
Listen to this word which I take up for a lamentation over you, O house of Israel. 2 "The virgin of Israel has fallen; She shall rise no more. She is cast down on her land; there is no one to raise her up." 3 For thus says the Lord GOD: "The city that went forth a thousand shall have a hundred left, and that which went forth one hundred shall have ten left to the house of Israel." 4 For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel: "Seek me, and you will live; 5 but do not seek Bethel, nor enter into Gilgal, and do not pass to Beersheba: for Gilgal shall surely go into captivity, and Bethel shall come to nothing. 6 Seek the LORD, and you will live; lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph, and it devour, and there be no one to quench it in Bethel.
Well my phone is heating up better take a break for now
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#320
Oct 11, 2017
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#320
posthuman said:
all the Law leads to Christ.
all the scripture testifies of Him.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
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Yes, "ALL" the Law represents the perfection that is Christ. But it was the Priesthood which was changed when Jesus came. Not the first and greatest commandment, or the 2nd, nor was it the Law and Prophets which teach us how to "continue therein".

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This is speaking to the Priesthood that Jesus fulfilled. Why you can't see that is amazing to me.


5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, (Priesthood) that he may establish the second. (Priesthood)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I know you can't accept that the "works of the Law Paul speaks to is this Priesthood which was "ADDED" until the Seed should come.

But I'm posting it anyway so others reading along can see what the "NEW Covenant" of God was speaking about, not your version or religious man's version of the New Covenant, but what the Word which became Flesh meant by the New Covenant.

Heb. 10:
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
 
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