Rapture

"..almost completely over if not entirely over during the trib" is pure guess work, why not calculate Daniel's time line and come up with conclusive times/seasons?
The tribulation is solely designed for the church and no one else; the reason Jesus is the only person in the entire universe that could open the seals is that He Himself went through tribulation and won life as a victors crown and He is the one to commission it on His church and the reason the church has to go through the tribulation is they are unfaithful and would have their faith refined in fire. That's what God has been saying since Isaiah's time, "... a third i will refine with fire.."

The mark is not a literal mark . But the mark of Cain .

666 signifies natural unconverted man as restless wanderer (no sabbath rest in Christ).

And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:15

Yet none is near the truth. It comes down to understanding the context of rapture- No one at any given moment will leave this earth. Heaven in the new covenant is actually the hearts of believers here on earth. The believers that die have their souls resurrect and they also indwell the hearts of living believers here on earth and they make judgement even now through the living believers.

Jesus promised many rooms in the heavenly marionettes- well those marionettes are the hearts of the living believers here on earth.

I don't think so. 666 is actually a time line, the reason you are asked to calculate 'the number' in Rev 13, so that you can get the time that the antichrist will reign over the earth. We know he reigns for 3.5 years (figuratively) but his number is 666- it is an equation, 3.5x where x=666.
Complicated but it is what it is and the answer is in Daniel again, "...until 2300 evenings and mornings, then all shall be done..."

The New heavens (plural) and earth are not reconditioned heavens and earth . Corruption does not inherit the incorruptible .

The new promised bodies will be like than angels .No means to procreate. Nether male nor female, Jew nor Gentile but a new altogether creation .

The moment any person passes from this realm under the Sun its universal Alzheimer's. The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Not our memory of them.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Concerning 666.
The book of Daniel is sealed, but the key is in Rev 13, the number 666. You can not calculate Daniel's timeline without the antichrist's number (666). If you do calculate the 70 weeks using the antichrist number, you end up with exactly 2300 years which the angel also says in Daniel. That's how you confirm your timeline.

I think that complicates for it is the number of a man.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six .Revelation 13:8

It is also used as in 1/3 or .666 as those who have no sabbath rest (the mark) .Not having the faith that comes from hearing God their hearts remain hard.(Hebrew4:1-7)

It all about his eternal rest we have in Christ, and not new technology under the skin.... the new age gospel .

I agree with most of what you say here; New heavens and new earth are completely new. Jesus said heavens and earth will pass but His words will not pass, He also said that His words are spirit- our heavenly bodies are actually spirits.
We follow the example of Jesus, He died and was resurrected on the 3rd day and disappeared in the clouds- meaning that He was gloried into a spirit. Well, that time Jesus went to heaven and the heaven that He went was right in the hearts of the believers just as He promised:

John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Where was Jesus going?

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. .....
23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

The reason Jesus resurrected on the 3rd day is because of the promise that His body will not see decay and we as believers are also sharing in that promise. On the 3rd day after death, the souls of believers are resurrected and they together with Christ as one spirit, indwell living believers here on earth judging the earth dwellers - the reason 5th seal/5th trumpet/5th bowl are petitions from the saints being thrown on earth dwellers. So many times in the OT we've heard the nations being told to be quiet because God is judging from His holy dwelling and we know His Holy dwelling (temple) is the hearts of men here on earth.

At the end of it all. only 144k believers will live here on earth with rest (tribulation saints) and God Himself in them- this is what we call the kingdom of God that shall reign on the earth forever. In a twinkling of an eye, their bodies will wear the incorruptible and the heavens and earth will pass.

Not at all. The number of a man doesn't actually mean it is a man but a number calculable by men's/earthly mathematical formula.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six .Revelation 13:8

The sentence has two things, a man and a beast- the number of the beast is the number of a man; i don't see the reason anyone would conclude that it is a man and not a beast.

Let's analyze Paul's words carefully:

1 Thess 4: 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.


Paul is counting himself as part of those who are still alive at Christ's return and he is encouraging people so that they count themselves as being alive at christ's return. Christ doesn't come alone but with souls of dead believers and as Christ promised, He comes and indwells the living believers. That's how it works.

Rom 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet the Spirit gives you life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who dwells in you.

With the same spirit of Christ, you'll not spend more than 3 days in sheol, you will be resurrected.

1 Cor 15:
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.


Paul is not using future tense here when he talks about the dead being raised, he is using continuous tense- meaning that it is something that is happening even today and is on a continuous basis.

Paul goes ahead to call the resurrected believers as Christ- the first fruits (this requires wisdom). Most think that Paul telling it in a sequence form as Christ and then the first fruits and then those that are alive- nooo, Christ the first fruits is one term that means believers that die before the end of age- everyone of them is being resurrected at their own time as they die.


Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Where Daniel 8:14 says "unto/until 2300 evenings mornings," I believe that refers to the specific offering that occurred twice per day and actually adds up to 1150 DAYS'-worth. (Also, when I "calculated" [with your suggested numbers] I somehow came up with 2331 rather than 2300. I'm not saying it's not something pertaining to the future, I just believe it is much more precise, number-wise.)


On the other subject, [speaking of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" in 1Th4:17] "and so shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting UNION and/or identification] the Lord" is completely distinct from the passages that say things like "[the 5 virgins (plural)] went in with [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the promised and prophesied earthly MK--THESE never leave the earth (and haven't died either)] in Matt25:10 [nasb shows it better as "wedding FEAST/SUPPER].... or Rev20:4 where it says, "and they lived [-again; same word used of Jesus in Rev2] and reigned with [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Christ a thousand years" [the earthly MK]...

...TWO completely DISTINCT "with" words [G4862 or G3326], that carry very distinct meanings.

I said it is complicated than a simple multiplication- you have to turn it back to Gregorian timeline (365.25 days/yr) and add it to the 1st half of the last week.

666 x 3.5 x 360/365.25 = 2297.4948 years (this represents only the second half of the last week which is figuratively 3.5 years)

2297.4948 +3.5 = 2300.99487 years (this represents the last week of the 70 weeks)

But it is still complicated than it is here because we must also know when to start counting this.
I told you Daniel has 2 timeline stencils from which we can map our calendar and pin the reign of antichrist here on earth. The 70 weeks and the 2300 days have the same ending, they all go to the end of age.
2300 evenings and mornings is another form of saying days, you can't split it up. The reason for saying mornings and evenings is that a day is not complete until the .999th hour and that's what the calculation is all about.

Noose:

I agree that this passage is referring to THE HERE AND NOW, in the mortal bodies WE STILL LIVE IN.

Where I disagree in the other part of your post, is that I believe "firstfruit" refers to ALL of "the Church which is His body" rather than just a part of it, BECAUSE OF the places where it states that when Christ died we died, when Christ was raised we were raised, and when Christ [actively] ascended, we also "WITH [G4682] HIM (meaning, the very day He died, and the very day He resurrected, and the very day [same day as His Resurrection] He [actively] ascended, which fulfilled Lev23:10-12, ON FIRSTFRUIT).

And some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13, which to me reads consistently with the rest of the context ('chosen you firstfruit'), especially where the word/concept of "salvation" in both of the Thessalonian epistles is an eschatological salvation.

I can't tell by looking whether you used the 360 or the 365.25. So which is it? (I assume you mean the 365.25... but I see no biblical justification for doing so.)

I believe that particular timeline (if the "2300 e m" is to also be factored) points [that is WILL point] Israel to specific dates THEY "will understand" ("the wise [of Israel, per context] WILL UNDERSTAND") because the number relates (and did relate, in their past) specifically to things which are on the Hebrew scheme of things (including prophecies yet to play out for them). IOW, I see it far more likely to connect to a specific set of 1150 days (during the future 70th Week / 7 years) that fall [literally DO fall] between two specific dates (for them)... but not pertaining to "the Church which is His body" (in the present age / "this present age" [distinct from "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" which WILL pertain to THEM]).

Col2:16-17 - "which ARE [plural; present tense] a shadow [singular] of things coming [things to come, plural; i.e. future]" (but not for US to "observe" now, in "this present age"--Israel's "earthly things")

One thing, 666 is the number used as a metaphor to represent natural man, a beast of the field

Natural man is considered as a beast of the field created from the rudiments of this world.

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. Genesis 2:20

Satan having no form as the spirit of lies was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. To include man.

Now the serpent was more subtl than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1

As a lying spirit he is cursed above the things seen

And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Genesis 3:14

TDW:

in my post #153, this should read "[G4862]"... EDITING for the readers.



[hate that there's not enough time to edit all my typos within the brief time-limit... I usually have MUCH to EDIT ]

What kind of hogs swallow are you promoting here? We are raptured into the hearts of other believers? Where in scripture is that? I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

Isaiah 65 is not talking about believers. it's talking about the White Throne Judgment because people are still dying Isa. 65:20. There will be no amnesia in the Kingdom of God.

1Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Our spirit minds will finally put off all limitations and God can share with us the truths of the universe. So much knowledge, if in books, the world could not hold them.

John 21:25 "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

Begining in vs 34 ish noah is brought in. A pretrib/preflood component.
THEN WE SEE the " one taken one left" in direct correlation to the pretrib noah comparison.
If that were not enough,we also see Jesus conclude this pretrib concept with a command to watch because he is coming

Hello calibob,

What makes you think that the church is being warned not to not receive the mark? Do you see the see the church being addressed anywhere in the narrative. If fact, within Revelation chapters 1 thru 3 the word "church" is used 19 times. Then after the end of chapter 3 it abruptly disappears from use. From that point on the word "hagios" translated as "Saints" is used. There are no coincidences in God's word. Therefore, there is a reason for the absence of this word that was previously used exclusively referring to the church. If the word "Church" and "Saints" were used interchangeably throughout Revelation then it would be a non-issue.

The saints being referred to are those great tribulation saints who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as that group of white robed saints which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language. These are those who will have come to the Lord after the church has been gathered and during that seven years. It is during that last 3 1/2 years that the beast is given authority to make war and to conquer them - Rev.13:5-7.

You are correct in that Revelation is a warning to come, as this is stated, in so many words, in the first verse of Revelation:

"This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John"

The book of Revelation is a detailed account of "the day of the Lord," was prophesied by the OT prophets as well as the apostles. The "things that must take place" is referring to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are the wrath of God and which take up the majority of the book.

The Lord gave us this information, not as a warning for us, but so that we could use it to warn others of what is coming. For as scripture proclaims "we (believers) are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath," as Jesus already suffered it on every believers behalf. The Lord also promised to keep believers out of that hour of trial, which is anther designation for the time of God's wrath - Rev.3:10.

The point I was makeing was right before the very begining or within the 3 1/2 years because 1 is pre, and the other is mid A week later would still be mid??