Colossians 1:23

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,737
6,903
113
#1
Colossians 1:12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 18( For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they bethings in earth, or things in heaven. 21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 33) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Previous Scriptures provided for context.............

This is an odd statement by the Apostle is it not? I mean, one group tells us that we have no choice in whether or not we are grounded and settled and be not moved away from the faith, and another group tells us it does not matter if we are or if we are not, for we are already saved. It makes me wonder what the Apostle was trying to say here, and if it may not really mean what it reads as.

John Gill said this:

If ye continue in the faith
In the doctrine of faith which they had received and embraced; and in the grace of faith, and the exercise of it which was implanted in them; and in the profession of faith which they had made: not that the virtue and efficacy of Christ's blood, sufferings, and death, and reconciliation of their persons to God thereby, depended upon their faith, and abiding in it; but that faith and continuance in it were necessary means of their presentation in unblemished holiness and righteousness; for if they had not faith, or did not abide in it or if the good work of grace was not wrought upon their souls, and that performed until the day of Christ, they could not be presented holy and blameless: this shows the necessity of the saints' final perseverance in faith and holiness, and is mentioned with this view, to put them upon a concern about it, and to make use of all means, under divine grace, to enjoy it; and nothing could more strongly incline and move unto it, than the blessed effect of Christ's death, reconciliation and the end of it, to present the reconciled ones blameless; in order to which it is necessary they should hold on and out to the end: hence the Ethiopic version reads the words, not as a condition, but as an exhortation enforced by what goes before; "therefore be ye established in the faith": it follows,

grounded and settled;
not on the sandy foundation of man's own righteousness, and peace made by his own performances; but upon the foundation and rock, Christ, against which the gates of hell cannot prevail; and so shall never finally and totally fall away, being rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith of him, in the doctrines of faith, respecting peace by his blood, justification by his righteousness, and life by his death; and so continue steadfast and immovable, always abounding in his work:

and [be] not moved away from the hope of the Gospel;
the hope of eternal life and happiness, which as set before us in the Gospel; which that gives a good and solid ground and foundation of, in the person, blood, and righteousness of Christ; and is the instrumental means, in the hand of the Spirit, of begetting to it, and of encouraging and increasing it: the law gives no hopes of eternal life to a poor sinner; it works wrath, and ministers death; there is nothing but a fearful looking for of judgment by it; but the Gospel encourages to hope in the Lord, from the consideration of rich mercy and plenteous redemption in him; and this hope of the Gospel is an anchor of the soul, sure and steadfast, and not to be let go; this confidence and rejoicing of the hope is to be kept firm unto the end:

This reminds me of what Jesus said in Matthew about those who endure to the end will be saved.

Thoughts?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,227
2,205
113
#3
Mebbe posing the question of OSAS might be more satisfactorily answered if it were asked as OFAF, once faithful always faithful?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,152
3,694
113
#4
Colossians 1:12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 18( For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they bethings in earth, or things in heaven. 21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 33) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Previous Scriptures provided for context.............

This is an odd statement by the Apostle is it not? I mean, one group tells us that we have no choice in whether or not we are grounded and settled and be not moved away from the faith, and another group tells us it does not matter if we are or if we are not, for we are already saved. It makes me wonder what the Apostle was trying to say here, and if it may not really mean what it reads as.

John Gill said this:

If ye continue in the faith
In the doctrine of faith which they had received and embraced; and in the grace of faith, and the exercise of it which was implanted in them; and in the profession of faith which they had made: not that the virtue and efficacy of Christ's blood, sufferings, and death, and reconciliation of their persons to God thereby, depended upon their faith, and abiding in it; but that faith and continuance in it were necessary means of their presentation in unblemished holiness and righteousness; for if they had not faith, or did not abide in it or if the good work of grace was not wrought upon their souls, and that performed until the day of Christ, they could not be presented holy and blameless: this shows the necessity of the saints' final perseverance in faith and holiness, and is mentioned with this view, to put them upon a concern about it, and to make use of all means, under divine grace, to enjoy it; and nothing could more strongly incline and move unto it, than the blessed effect of Christ's death, reconciliation and the end of it, to present the reconciled ones blameless; in order to which it is necessary they should hold on and out to the end: hence the Ethiopic version reads the words, not as a condition, but as an exhortation enforced by what goes before; "therefore be ye established in the faith": it follows,

grounded and settled;
not on the sandy foundation of man's own righteousness, and peace made by his own performances; but upon the foundation and rock, Christ, against which the gates of hell cannot prevail; and so shall never finally and totally fall away, being rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith of him, in the doctrines of faith, respecting peace by his blood, justification by his righteousness, and life by his death; and so continue steadfast and immovable, always abounding in his work:

and [be] not moved away from the hope of the Gospel;
the hope of eternal life and happiness, which as set before us in the Gospel; which that gives a good and solid ground and foundation of, in the person, blood, and righteousness of Christ; and is the instrumental means, in the hand of the Spirit, of begetting to it, and of encouraging and increasing it: the law gives no hopes of eternal life to a poor sinner; it works wrath, and ministers death; there is nothing but a fearful looking for of judgment by it; but the Gospel encourages to hope in the Lord, from the consideration of rich mercy and plenteous redemption in him; and this hope of the Gospel is an anchor of the soul, sure and steadfast, and not to be let go; this confidence and rejoicing of the hope is to be kept firm unto the end:

This reminds me of what Jesus said in Matthew about those who endure to the end will be saved.

Thoughts?
The context is not eternal salvation, but rather standing "blameless" before the Judgment Seat of Christ. Believers are called to live a life pleasing to the Lord doing His good works. Believers will be judged based upon their labor. Blameless is not sinless. Sin is not judged for the Lord washed away our sins by His blood.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#5
It makes me wonder what the Apostle was trying to say here, and if it may not really mean what it reads as.
Paul was simply warning Christians not to be deceived by the false teachings which were coming into the churches. This epistle does address several false teachings.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#6
Mebbe posing the question of OSAS might be more satisfactorily answered if it were asked as OFAF, once faithful always faithful?
Only Jesus is faithful, His faithfulness not ours is what keeps us secure in Him:)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
9,127
113
#7
I think the OP has already come to his own conclusion with his R.O.S.E. tagline.

I remember when he came up with that. I haven't paid much mind since then. This thread appears to be an expounding of that belief, that I long ago rejected. That's my thoughts.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,227
2,205
113
#8
Only Jesus is faithful, His faithfulness not ours is what keeps us secure in Him:)
Right, UG, I am continually returning to Him for refills when I see my level of faith getting low.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#9
The context is not eternal salvation, but rather standing "blameless" before the Judgment Seat of Christ. Believers are called to live a life pleasing to the Lord doing His good works. Believers will be judged based upon their labor. Blameless is not sinless. Sin is not judged for the Lord washed away our sins by His blood.
In affect as a work of Christ's faith or labor of His love he has sat on the judgment seat of Christ indented for us , because he has we will not be found blameless. The good works we have show towards his name as he worked in us to both will and perform His good pleasure will not be forgotten but we are not saved by our wonderful works like the man in Mathew 7.

No condemnation as a trial at the end of the age for those who believe God according the faith that comes from hearing Him . It (Faith )as it is written is not of our selves least any man boast in false pride.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#10
I think the OP has already come to his own conclusion with his R.O.S.E. tagline.

I remember when he came up with that. I haven't paid much mind since then. This thread appears to be an expounding of that belief, that I long ago rejected. That's my thoughts.
I did not notice it before...my response ... o_O
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,921
13,607
113
#11
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

"be not moved away from the hope"

"you . . yet now hath He reconciled"

"having made peace through the blood of His cross"
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,737
6,903
113
#12
I think Gill pretty well answered any questions/criticisms posted.

I know it is hard for some to actually accept what he says:

but the Gospel encourages to hope in the Lord, from the consideration of rich mercy and plenteous redemption in him; and this hope of the Gospel is an anchor of the soul, sure and steadfast, and not to be let go; this confidence and rejoicing of the hope is to be kept firm unto the end:

As for those who "reject" my comment...............so what?

I have been rejecting your comments for years..........does that have any influence on your beliefs? So, what in the world makes you think you have some elevated position of supreme understanding that your comments should be so influential?

(goodness.............)

:)

(re: the OP)

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,737
6,903
113
#13
What I really find funny is that a few are arguing against Gill........and GILL is a strong supporter of OSAS.

Guess a few don't really read the Comment in the OP with understanding, they just LOOK to see who posted it and RUSH to judgment.

:)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#14
What I really find funny is that a few are arguing against Gill........and GILL is a strong supporter of OSAS.

Guess a few don't really read the Comment in the OP with understanding, they just LOOK to see who posted it and RUSH to judgment.

:)
We are saved period. We do not persevere to salvation because we are elected as John Gill writes so I do not accept his teaching.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
9,127
113
#15
I think Gill pretty well answered any questions/criticisms posted.

I know it is hard for some to actually accept what he says:

but the Gospel encourages to hope in the Lord, from the consideration of rich mercy and plenteous redemption in him; and this hope of the Gospel is an anchor of the soul, sure and steadfast, and not to be let go; this confidence and rejoicing of the hope is to be kept firm unto the end:

As for those who "reject" my comment...............so what?

I have been rejecting your comments for years..........does that have any influence on your beliefs? So, what in the world makes you think you have some elevated position of supreme understanding that your comments should be so influential?

(goodness.............)

:)

(re: the OP)

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
I think I'm safe in assuming this post is intended for me. If not, disregard please.

So an "I DARE you to knock this chip off my shoulder" thread is started by the OP in which thoughts are solicited, and when the thoughts are rendered, they are interpreted as ME claiming an elevated position of supreme understanding?

Well, if I have to wear that moniker, then this is a pretty good issue in which to wear it. GUILTY as charged! I DON'T trust in my obedience to secure eternity. I trust in Jesus Christ for that, and in the Holy Spirit to refine me to obedience.

Further, we all choose to respond to whatever thread we wish, in whatever fashion we wish. For whatever purpose we wish. Virtually 100% of the BDF comments made are people expressing THEIR beliefs in the hopes of persuading others to see things their way. So push your ROSE all you want, but if I feel led to clip it down, and expose it for a works doctrine, I'll do so. Mostly I just feel MEHH about it though.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#16
not that the virtue and efficacy of Christ's blood, sufferings, and death, and reconciliation of their persons to God thereby, depended upon their faith, and abiding in it; but that faith and continuance in it were necessary means of their presentation in unblemished holiness and righteousness; for if they had not faith, or did not abide in it or if the good work of grace was not wrought upon their souls, and that performed until the day of Christ, they could not be presented holy and blameless:
Meanwhile, for you poor women, salvation is dependent on you continuing in faith:

"But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." - 1 Timothy 2:15

So in Colossians, all of us men are saved by dead faith or no faith at all, but women have to continue in "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6) to be saved. Doesn't sound fair for all you women out there. But then again, Paul was a misogynist, right?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#17
We are saved period. We do not persevere to salvation because we are elected as John Gill writes so I do not accept his teaching.
Men don't have to persevere in faith and patience to be saved. Women do.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#19
I think I'm safe in assuming this post is intended for me. If not, disregard please.

So an "I DARE you to knock this chip off my shoulder" thread is started by the OP in which thoughts are solicited, and when the thoughts are rendered, they are interpreted as ME claiming an elevated position of supreme understanding?

Well, if I have to wear that moniker, then this is a pretty good issue in which to wear it. GUILTY as charged! I DON'T trust in my obedience to secure eternity. I trust in Jesus Christ for that, and in the Holy Spirit to refine me to obedience.

Further, we all choose to respond to whatever thread we wish, in whatever fashion we wish. For whatever purpose we wish. Virtually 100% of the BDF comments made are people expressing THEIR beliefs in the hopes of persuading others to see things their way. So push your ROSE all you want, but if I feel led to clip it down, and expose it for a works doctrine, I'll do so. Mostly I just feel MEHH about it though.

I am "befuddled" as to how you can say "trust" does not require works, or effort/s in the doing, or accomplishing of, and the Holy Spirit's "refining" you "to" obedience, does not also require works, or efforts on "your" part, in the doing, or accomplishing, even the fulfilling of, as if "you" are simply going to go "willingly?" As if, it doesn't take "works, or efforts, of faith" to even "believe in the first place? And, then attempt in the "negating" of a "works doctrine?" :unsure::unsure:
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
9,127
113
#20
I am "befuddled" as to how you can say "trust" does not require works, or effort/s in the doing, or accomplishing of, and the Holy Spirit's "refining" you "to" obedience, does not also require works, or efforts on "your" part, in the doing, or accomplishing, even the fulfilling of, as if "you" are simply going to go "willingly?" As if, it doesn't take "works, or efforts, of faith" to even "believe in the first place? And, then attempt in the "negating" of a "works doctrine?" :unsure::unsure:
I'll give it a shot here.

Salvation is a one time event. Christ was sent once to die for us. Birth is a ONE TIME event. I didn't crawl up my mother's womb to be born again physically, and I can't crucify Christ again to become born again again! So That's a done deal. I'm saved. SEALED ETERNALLY! FANTASTIC!!

Now what? Well I've been saved to accomplish the works God prepared beforehand. I also still inhabit this stinky dead flesh that constantly tries to tell me it's still alive. And unfortunately, I still listen to it, when I'm not walking in the Spirit. So the indwelling Holy Spirit transforms me into the likeness of Jesus. I wish this transformation was instantaneous upon receiving Him. But I don't think it will be fully accomplished until physical death. So He is constantly refining me to burn out ANYTHING that interferes with that transformation.

I like the analogy of the refiners fire.You know when the refiner knows He has removed all the dross from the vessel containing the molten metal? When He looks in the vessel and sees His perfect reflection.

So yeah. ALL the credit goes to Jesus, and I love and thank him all the more as time goes by for what He has done, is doing, and will do for me and to me.