OSAS: Do you think Perfectionists go to hell?
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That's good to know because the thought that God requires those who need His help to help themselves first seems opposed to much of what the Bible teaches us about the One who makes it His business to help the helpless, the orphan, the widow, the poor, the sick, etc. (as well the lost, of course).
While I can imagine it possible to bend the meaning of certain verses in order to garner Biblical support for Franklin's phrase where Christian living is concerned, if salvation is the thing that's in view instead, it seems to me that it would be all but impossible to come up with any Biblical support for that.
~Deut
While I can imagine it possible to bend the meaning of certain verses in order to garner Biblical support for Franklin's phrase where Christian living is concerned, if salvation is the thing that's in view instead, it seems to me that it would be all but impossible to come up with any Biblical support for that.
~Deut
I do not mean any disrespect, but I am not sure I am understanding the point you are trying to make?
I thought your original comment (not question) was to try to see if I thought it was a Bible verse. Which I clearly stated it is not. In order to save both you and I time, I went ahead and acknowledged the origin of the statement.
Lastly, I stated “what it means to me;” I did not imply that it had to do with “soul salvation,” but rather “idleness.” You (as in a general sense-saved Christian-right with the Lord) can sit on a park bench wishing to get out of a situation for 50 years, but if chose to continue to deny (in ignorance-lack of discernment) the help God is sends you...
I am certain that the hypothetical person sitting bench, would still go to Heaven when they passed. But due to idleness they wouldn’t have lived the best life they could have lived, since they had free-will to continue sitting for 50 years.
I thought your original comment (not question) was to try to see if I thought it was a Bible verse. Which I clearly stated it is not. In order to save both you and I time, I went ahead and acknowledged the origin of the statement.
Lastly, I stated “what it means to me;” I did not imply that it had to do with “soul salvation,” but rather “idleness.” You (as in a general sense-saved Christian-right with the Lord) can sit on a park bench wishing to get out of a situation for 50 years, but if chose to continue to deny (in ignorance-lack of discernment) the help God is sends you...
I am certain that the hypothetical person sitting bench, would still go to Heaven when they passed. But due to idleness they wouldn’t have lived the best life they could have lived, since they had free-will to continue sitting for 50 years.
Hi again HappyChristianGal, my point is simply this, "God helps those who help themselves" is bad theology. It teaches something that I believe opposes much of what the Bible teaches us about God, especially soteriologically speaking, but in general as well, I think .. e.g. 1 John 4:19 cf Ephesians 1:4-6. IOW, we are who we are and are able to do what we do because God initiates/acts on our behalf first, not in response to what we do first (which is what I was taught that statement meant as a kid in Presbyterian church).
I appreciated knowing both of those facts. Thank you
I have since read that it is the non-Biblical statement/idea that more people believe comes from the Bible than any other.
I apologize for that, as I assumed (albeit incorrectly) that your example of the rafts & the man drowning, concerned salvation.
~Deut
I appreciated knowing both of those facts. Thank you
I have since read that it is the non-Biblical statement/idea that more people believe comes from the Bible than any other.I apologize for that, as I assumed (albeit incorrectly) that your example of the rafts & the man drowning, concerned salvation.
~Deut
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I always wondered how that happens,maybe Its the teaching like can a person be born again and be under catholic teaching and lose rewards at the judgement seat of CHRIST.IDK
IDK
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I would not say perfectionists, but being led of the Spirit and do the works of God, and not works of the flesh, which only a Spirit led life is saved, and a Spirit led life has the ability to abstain from sins.
There is no excuse, but when people point out we have to abstain from sin some people say they are perfectionists, and it seems in a bad way like they are doing something wrong, but when did wanting to be Christlike, and abstaining from sins be a bad thing, and there is no excuse for we can have the Spirit, and if we hate sin, and do not want sin, like we are supposed to do, then how are they saying something wrong.
A person that others view as a perfectionist is not giving glory to themselves, and saying it is all by their power they are abstaining from sins, and doing works, but give glory to God for leading them with His Spirit, so there is nothing wrong.
Catholics and people like that make up works that are not even part of the Bible so that is wrong, but a person that is led of the Spirit and says abstain from sin, and do works of the Lord, which is to help the poor and needy, and abstain from fleshy lusts that war against the soul, and keep themselves unspotted from the world, is not doing anything wrong at all for it is what God wants.
God wants us to do those things, and a person says what God says He wants us to do, and then they are going to say perfectionist as if it is a bad thing.
Hey you stop feeding those poor people, and stop not cheating on your wife, but get out there and cheat away and have fun, and go to the casino while your are at it, for don't you know that you are doing wrong abstaining from sin, and helping the poor and needy, which that is strange.
You stress acting Christlike and then they say perfectionist, all the while they do not give glory to themselves, and do not do any works of the flesh, but of God.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Consider these scriptures.
Many people claim Jesus as Lord and Savior, and mean it in the right way, His death, burial, and resurrection, and having faith.
If OSAS is true, then consider this concerning the people that do not believe in OSAS is true if they do not abstain from sins, and do works of the Spirit, which we know some people lack.
If OSAS is true then God would only work in the lives of those He chose, for it would not make sense to work in the lives of those He did not choose for salvation.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
No one says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, which is to claim Jesus above all dominion, principality, and power, and that He is God, which many people that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is Lord in the right way.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Many that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is the Christ, Savior, and the Son of the living God, which could only be revealed to them by the Father.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Many people that do not go along with OSAS confesses the Son as the Savior, and believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
Many people that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is Lord and Savior, and He is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
So God has to be working in their life, and if OSAS is true God would only work in the lives of the people He chose, so why is God working in their lives if He did not choose them in the beginning, so they must be saved too even though they do not go along with OSAS.
As long as a person does not give glory to themselves, or do works apart from the works of the Spirit thinking it causes them to be right with God, then they can say abstain from sins, and say do works of the Spirit all day long for there is nothing amiss, and God would rather have them say that then to say they cannot abstain from sins, and works do not save them, for more good comes from it which is what the Father is about doing goodness.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Why is God commanding all people on the entire planet to repent of their sins if it does the lost no good if OSAS is true.
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called, but few are chosen, so if OSAS is true, why is God calling people that are not chosen, and why would God call a person He already did not choose for salvation.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It appears God does the calling and choosing on earth, and some did not do what is right to inherit salvation.
Some people say that it is because they did works for their salvation, but that is not what these scriptures is about, but they did not abstain from sins, and thought they were right with God, which they did not do the will of the Father, and they pointed out their works trying to get out of the situation.
These scriptures would apply to people that believe they cannot abstain from sins, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, for many of them will hold unto sin and think they are still right with God.
Continued,
There is no excuse, but when people point out we have to abstain from sin some people say they are perfectionists, and it seems in a bad way like they are doing something wrong, but when did wanting to be Christlike, and abstaining from sins be a bad thing, and there is no excuse for we can have the Spirit, and if we hate sin, and do not want sin, like we are supposed to do, then how are they saying something wrong.
A person that others view as a perfectionist is not giving glory to themselves, and saying it is all by their power they are abstaining from sins, and doing works, but give glory to God for leading them with His Spirit, so there is nothing wrong.
Catholics and people like that make up works that are not even part of the Bible so that is wrong, but a person that is led of the Spirit and says abstain from sin, and do works of the Lord, which is to help the poor and needy, and abstain from fleshy lusts that war against the soul, and keep themselves unspotted from the world, is not doing anything wrong at all for it is what God wants.
God wants us to do those things, and a person says what God says He wants us to do, and then they are going to say perfectionist as if it is a bad thing.
Hey you stop feeding those poor people, and stop not cheating on your wife, but get out there and cheat away and have fun, and go to the casino while your are at it, for don't you know that you are doing wrong abstaining from sin, and helping the poor and needy, which that is strange.
You stress acting Christlike and then they say perfectionist, all the while they do not give glory to themselves, and do not do any works of the flesh, but of God.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Consider these scriptures.
Many people claim Jesus as Lord and Savior, and mean it in the right way, His death, burial, and resurrection, and having faith.
If OSAS is true, then consider this concerning the people that do not believe in OSAS is true if they do not abstain from sins, and do works of the Spirit, which we know some people lack.
If OSAS is true then God would only work in the lives of those He chose, for it would not make sense to work in the lives of those He did not choose for salvation.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
No one says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, which is to claim Jesus above all dominion, principality, and power, and that He is God, which many people that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is Lord in the right way.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Many that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is the Christ, Savior, and the Son of the living God, which could only be revealed to them by the Father.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Many people that do not go along with OSAS confesses the Son as the Savior, and believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
Many people that do not go along with OSAS believe Jesus is Lord and Savior, and He is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
So God has to be working in their life, and if OSAS is true God would only work in the lives of the people He chose, so why is God working in their lives if He did not choose them in the beginning, so they must be saved too even though they do not go along with OSAS.
As long as a person does not give glory to themselves, or do works apart from the works of the Spirit thinking it causes them to be right with God, then they can say abstain from sins, and say do works of the Spirit all day long for there is nothing amiss, and God would rather have them say that then to say they cannot abstain from sins, and works do not save them, for more good comes from it which is what the Father is about doing goodness.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Why is God commanding all people on the entire planet to repent of their sins if it does the lost no good if OSAS is true.
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many are called, but few are chosen, so if OSAS is true, why is God calling people that are not chosen, and why would God call a person He already did not choose for salvation.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It appears God does the calling and choosing on earth, and some did not do what is right to inherit salvation.
Some people say that it is because they did works for their salvation, but that is not what these scriptures is about, but they did not abstain from sins, and thought they were right with God, which they did not do the will of the Father, and they pointed out their works trying to get out of the situation.
These scriptures would apply to people that believe they cannot abstain from sins, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, for many of them will hold unto sin and think they are still right with God.
Continued,
Continued,
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
It appears as if these so called perfectionists are correct in saying abstain from sins, and do the works of the Spirit.
And the truth of the matter is if a person does not allow the Spirit to lead them, and do the works of the Spirit then that is sin, and being rebellious.
But if the OSAS people say if we are led of the Spirit we will do the works, then why the lack among them which we can see, which is why people call them hypocrites.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Which they lack big time concerning going by their wants, and not only their needs, which means they do not love people like they should, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.
Everything we think and do is a work, and repenting of our sins is a work, and confessing Christ is a work, and having faith is a work, so if works are not necessary then nobody would be saved.
Also if OSAS is true then their repenting of their sins is not true, their faith is not true, their confessing Christ is not true, and their love of God is not true, for it did not come from them but from God, for they have no choice but to do those things seeing no other alternative, and God's kingdom would not be true love, and God is not evil to condemn people that did nothing wrong for they have no choice but to reject the truth.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
God says He does not want anyone to perish, but all people to be saved, but OSAS says it is not true, and they should be saying along with the Spirit that anybody can have that salvation instead of saying God chose some and did not choose some without their choice in the matter.
And they cannot see the truth, but there is no excuse for we can have the Spirit to cause us to abstain from sins if we hate sin, and do not want sin, so it is obvious they do not want to abstain from sins, and even the world can abstain from sins as they choose what sins they like and what sins they do not like, but they like some sins for they are of the flesh.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
It appears like they fall in to this category not being able to see the truth, which they think they are alright despite their sins, and they mingle in with the world enjoying what they enjoy, and taking vacations, and cruises, and loving money and material things for their wants, as their preachers do too, and loving worldly music, and television, and movies.
They cannot abstain from sins, and sin does not affect their relationship with God is a strange thing to say for a Christian when the Spirit is available to them.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
It appears as if these so called perfectionists are correct in saying abstain from sins, and do the works of the Spirit.
And the truth of the matter is if a person does not allow the Spirit to lead them, and do the works of the Spirit then that is sin, and being rebellious.
But if the OSAS people say if we are led of the Spirit we will do the works, then why the lack among them which we can see, which is why people call them hypocrites.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Which they lack big time concerning going by their wants, and not only their needs, which means they do not love people like they should, and love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.
Everything we think and do is a work, and repenting of our sins is a work, and confessing Christ is a work, and having faith is a work, so if works are not necessary then nobody would be saved.
Also if OSAS is true then their repenting of their sins is not true, their faith is not true, their confessing Christ is not true, and their love of God is not true, for it did not come from them but from God, for they have no choice but to do those things seeing no other alternative, and God's kingdom would not be true love, and God is not evil to condemn people that did nothing wrong for they have no choice but to reject the truth.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
God says He does not want anyone to perish, but all people to be saved, but OSAS says it is not true, and they should be saying along with the Spirit that anybody can have that salvation instead of saying God chose some and did not choose some without their choice in the matter.
And they cannot see the truth, but there is no excuse for we can have the Spirit to cause us to abstain from sins if we hate sin, and do not want sin, so it is obvious they do not want to abstain from sins, and even the world can abstain from sins as they choose what sins they like and what sins they do not like, but they like some sins for they are of the flesh.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
It appears like they fall in to this category not being able to see the truth, which they think they are alright despite their sins, and they mingle in with the world enjoying what they enjoy, and taking vacations, and cruises, and loving money and material things for their wants, as their preachers do too, and loving worldly music, and television, and movies.
They cannot abstain from sins, and sin does not affect their relationship with God is a strange thing to say for a Christian when the Spirit is available to them.
Boy n i thought my sister was a perfectionist by wanting her clothes hung perfectly in the closet..
but Mattsforjesus's post was deep and so many questions were asked how do we respond,I mean It's like a sermon but I will say that many of those scriptures used would have to be harmonized with scriptures that would support once saved always saved.One thing that was brought up In his post was how can a person speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD call JESUS accursed meaning the person wouldn't be talking against OSAS and be speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD If OSAS were true but the same thing would go for those who believe OSAS, why would we be speaking FOR OSAS If It were Not true?
Hi again HappyChristianGal, my point is simply this, "God helps those who help themselves" is bad theology. It teaches something that I believe opposes much of what the Bible teaches us about God, especially soteriologically speaking, but in general as well, I think .. e.g. 1 John 4:19 cf Ephesians 1:4-6. IOW, we are who we are and are able to do what we do because God initiates/acts on our behalf first, not in response to what we do first (which is what I was taught that statement meant as a kid in Presbyterian church).
I appreciated knowing both of those facts. Thank you I have since read that it is the non-Biblical statement/idea that more people believe comes from the Bible than any other.
I apologize for that, as I assumed (albeit incorrectly) that your example of the rafts & the man drowning, concerned salvation.
~Deut
I appreciated knowing both of those facts. Thank you
I have since read that it is the non-Biblical statement/idea that more people believe comes from the Bible than any other.I apologize for that, as I assumed (albeit incorrectly) that your example of the rafts & the man drowning, concerned salvation.
~Deut
Funny, but Mattsforjesus's post was deep and so many questions were asked how do we respond,I mean It's like a sermon but I will say that many of those scriptures used would have to be harmonized with scriptures that would support once saved always saved.
One thing that was brought up In his post was how can a person speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD call JESUS accursed meaning the person wouldn't be talking against OSAS and be speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD If OSAS were true but the same thing would go for those who believe OSAS, why would we be speaking FOR OSAS If It were Not true?
but Mattsforjesus's post was deep and so many questions were asked how do we respond,I mean It's like a sermon but I will say that many of those scriptures used would have to be harmonized with scriptures that would support once saved always saved.One thing that was brought up In his post was how can a person speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD call JESUS accursed meaning the person wouldn't be talking against OSAS and be speaking by the SPIRIT of GOD If OSAS were true but the same thing would go for those who believe OSAS, why would we be speaking FOR OSAS If It were Not true?
When he gives me the "readers digest' condensed version..im right there..lol
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My gpa used to say "God helps those who help themselves" but i think he was talkung that people shouldnt be lazy n dont expect God to be a huge Santa Clasuse..just giving n giving without us even trying..how often do we want God to keep blessing but not want any of the trials n tribulatioms that really CAN conform charector in someone...
And please dont get this wrong..im NOT talking bout works n salvation here..
And please dont get this wrong..im NOT talking bout works n salvation here..