Who are the inspired scriptures directed to?

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ForestGreenCook

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Short honest answer. I was dead in more ways than I could say . I was sober for a few years and at the bottom . Honestly being depressed would have been a emotional step up , and suicide wasn’t working. Had been to AA ,never got the God thing . Folks at AA said the Bible had the answers. So there I was . Not sure what I was looking for . It wasn’t God it was just some Just relief . The rest I think you get .
Blessings
Bill
Your decal of the lion and Spurgeon's quote explains a lot in what I am trying to say to you. I do believe the scriptures explain themselves, but, we, by ourselves, do not unchain them. It is the Holy Spirits revelation that unchains them. If you had read that bible without the revelation of the Holy Spirit it would have been foolishness to you. The natural man (void of the Spirit) described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern spiritual things. You were already born of the Holy Spirit and was converted by reading the bible. I commend you for turning to the bible, and you know that was probably the providence of God along with the Holy Spirit that was already within you.
 

Laish

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Jul 31, 2016
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Your decal of the lion and Spurgeon's quote explains a lot in what I am trying to say to you. I do believe the scriptures explain themselves, but, we, by ourselves, do not unchain them. It is the Holy Spirits revelation that unchains them. If you had read that bible without the revelation of the Holy Spirit it would have been foolishness to you. The natural man (void of the Spirit) described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern spiritual things. You were already born of the Holy Spirit and was converted by reading the bible. I commend you for turning to the bible, and you know that was probably the providence of God along with the Holy Spirit that was already within you.
I see you point . I get it . First let me say I come from a Reformed understanding of scripture. I just want to get that out so you know where I stand . You do bring up a interesting question though. I have not given much time to study or think about . When exactly do we stop being that natural man . I will post more I have to go now . Back in a bit . I have family stuff to do .
Blessings
Bill
 

ForestGreenCook

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I see you point . I get it . First let me say I come from a Reformed understanding of scripture. I just want to get that out so you know where I stand . You do bring up a interesting question though. I have not given much time to study or think about . When exactly do we stop being that natural man . I will post more I have to go now . Back in a bit . I have family stuff to do .
Blessings
Bill
The natural man while he is yet "dead in sins" and has no ability to discern anything that is spiritual, God regenerates him from his natural state and gives him the Holy Spirit to abide in him, he now can discern spiritual things as the Spirit within him begins to reveal some truths unto him. This process is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5. By God's design, this process is performed strictly by God's sovereign grace without any requirement from man.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Hi Diana, I don't believe that a "natural" man/woman needs to be "saved" to be able to understand and then respond in saving faith to the Gospel message (God saves or justifies us when we "believe"), but He does need to quicken or regenerate our hearts from spiritual death to spiritual life or we will never respond favorably to the Gospel when we hear it. This is why I believe that regeneration precedes faith. As the Bible tells us plainly, unless one is born again (regenerated) he/she cannot even see the Kingdom of God, much less enter into it .. John 3:3, 5.

~Deut
p.s. - as God tells us:

.........Ezekiel 36
.........26 ..I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you
.........a heart of flesh.

........27 ..I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
.
I have a question. Are you telling Diana that our belief is the cause of our eternal salvation?
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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The natural man while he is yet "dead in sins" and has no ability to discern anything that is spiritual, God regenerates him from his natural state and gives him the Holy Spirit to abide in him, he now can discern spiritual things as the Spirit within him begins to reveal some truths unto him. This process is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5. By God's design, this process is performed strictly by God's sovereign grace without any requirement from man.
Ok . So when dose regeneration happen before or after becoming aware of the Gospel?
Blessings
Bill
 

Deuteronomy

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I have a question. Are you telling Diana that our belief is the cause of our eternal salvation?
No, God alone is the "cause" of our salvation.

If you'd like more detail on how I believe the salvation process happens, I'd be happy to provide you with that as well. Just let me know.

~Deut
 

Deuteronomy

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Ok . So when dose regeneration happen before or after becoming aware of the Gospel?
Blessings
Bill
Hi Bill, regeneration precedes faith, because unless/until God quickens our hearts ("regenerates" us/cause us to be "born again" .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3), we cannot be "aware" of the Gospel from His spiritual POV, or anything else in the Kingdom of God for that matter. The things of God are nothing more than foolishness to the unregenerate man or woman, because they have no ability to understand or accept any of it in their natural state of being .. 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14; Ephesians 2:1-5. We can only come to understand the things of God when He quickens us to spiritual life, so again, regeneration precedes understanding/accepting/believing.

I hope you two didn't mind me adding in my 2 cents worth.(?)

~Deut

.........Ezekiel 36
.........26 ..I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you
.........a heart of flesh.
.........27 ..I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

.........
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
449
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Hi Bill, regeneration precedes faith, because unless/until God quickens our hearts ("regenerates" us/cause us to be "born again" .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3), we cannot be "aware" of the Gospel from His spiritual POV, or anything else in the Kingdom of God for that matter. The things of God are nothing more than foolishness to the unregenerate man or woman, because they have no ability to understand or accept any of it in their natural state of being .. 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14; Ephesians 2:1-5. We can only come to understand the things of God when He quickens us to spiritual life, so again, regeneration precedes understanding/accepting/believing.

I hope you two didn't mind me adding in my 2 cents worth.(?)

~Deut

.........Ezekiel 36
.........26 ..I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you
.........a heart of flesh.
.........27 ..I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

.........
No . I don’t mind at all . That’s what we are here for . Open civil discussion is what what it’s all about .
My question was more of a leading question . I was trying get a better understanding of our brothers views.
Blessings
Bill
 

Deuteronomy

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No . I don’t mind at all . That’s what we are here for . Open civil discussion is what what it’s all about .
My question was more of a leading question . I was trying get a better understanding of our brothers views.
Blessings
Bill
Ahh, thanks, I will be interested to hear what he has to say as well.

I will add this to what I said above, I believe God's quickening/regenerating/causing us to be born again, His drawing of the elect, and the gift of saving faith He gives to all of those who are His, to all be different sides of the same coin, so to speak (of course, I guess that would mean that it would have to be a multi-sided coin somehow :)). At least I am presently considering that such a thing may be true anyway.

Thanks for letting me join the party :giggle:

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

~Deut
p.s. - I love the Spurgeon quote in your signature line (y)
 

ForestGreenCook

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No, God alone is the "cause" of our salvation.

If you'd like more detail on how I believe the salvation process happens, I'd be happy to provide you with that as well. Just let me know.

~Deut
Yes, I thought your belief and mine were pretty close to each other, but now I am wondering.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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No, God alone is the "cause" of our salvation.

If you'd like more detail on how I believe the salvation process happens, I'd be happy to provide you with that as well. Just let me know.

~Deut
Your comment to Diana, "God saves us when we believe" Do you think that we believe before we are saved?
 

Deuteronomy

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Do you think that we believe before we are saved?
Technically, yes, but I believe God saves us/declares us "just" from the moment that we first believe .. John 5:24, so it's more like they happen at the same time. We are saved "by" grace "through" faith, so our choice to believe is certainly part of the "process" (so to speak) of being justified/saved.

~Deut
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Technically, yes, but I believe God saves us/declares us "just" from the moment that we first believe .. John 5:24, so it's more like they happen at the same time. We are saved "by" grace "through" faith, so our choice to believe is certainly part of the "process" (so to speak) of being justified/saved.

~Deut
What is your explanation on Eph 2:5? The natural man, even when he was "dead in sins" DEAD, Strong's definition A CORPS, DEAD LITERALLY OR FIGURATIVELY. The natural man was yet spiritually dead, unable to discern spiritual things, as to believe. That is my understanding anyway. Eph 2:8 - The "through faith" is not man.s faith, but Christ's faith, or faithfulness to go to the cross. Compare to Gal 2:16 - Man is justified by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ, not "IN" Jesus Christ. Does this make sense?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Technically, yes, but I believe God saves us/declares us "just" from the moment that we first believe .. John 5:24, so it's more like they happen at the same time. We are saved "by" grace "through" faith, so our choice to believe is certainly part of the "process" (so to speak) of being justified/saved.

~Deut
In reference to John 5:24 - He that heareth my word and believeth, The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot hear and believe in spiritual things. John 10:27 says "my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. Do you think that the natural man is his sheep?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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We can only come to understand the things of God when He quickens us to spiritual life, so again, regeneration precedes understanding/accepting/believing.
According to Romans 10, the preacher is sent ... we hear, we believe, we call:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?



According to Ephesians 1:13, we hear then we trust / believe then we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise:

Ephesians 1:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,



/
 

ForestGreenCook

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According to Romans 10, the preacher is sent ... we hear, we believe, we call:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?



According to Ephesians 1:13, we hear then we trust / believe then we are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise:

Ephesians 1:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,



/
Hear, trust, believe, call, sealed, whosoever, we, ye, All of these scriptures you have posted are applied to the regenerated man, not to the natural man. All of this would foolishness unto him.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Technically, yes, but I believe God saves us/declares us "just" from the moment that we first believe .. John 5:24, so it's more like they happen at the same time. We are saved "by" grace "through" faith, so our choice to believe is certainly part of the "process" (so to speak) of being justified/saved.

~Deut
Could you explain what you mean by "Technically, yes"?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Hear, trust, believe, call, sealed, whosoever, we, ye, All of these scriptures you have posted are applied to the regenerated man, not to the natural man. All of this would foolishness unto him.
your dogma claims "regenerated" ... then "hear" ... then "trust"

Scripture is clear in explaining the sequence. I believe I'll stick with Scripture.


Romans 10:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?



Ephesians 1:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,



 

Deuteronomy

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Jun 11, 2018
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Could you explain what you mean by "Technically, yes"?
I believe that all of these events happen nearly simultaneously. That said, God justifies/saves us ("declares" us just) when we "believe"/come to saving faith in Jesus (so technically, believing precedes justification).

~Deut
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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your dogma claims "regenerated" ... then "hear" ... then "trust"

Scripture is clear in explaining the sequence. I believe I'll stick with Scripture.


Romans 10:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent?



Ephesians 1:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
You can stick with believing those scriptures are referring to the natural man, void of the Spirit, if you want to, but they do not harmonize with 1 Cor 2:14 and others. All scriptures must agree or you are not understanding the doctrine of Jesus. Until you can correctly explain 1 Cor 2:14 you will never solve the mystery.