1 Cor 3:5 - how to translate?

trofimus · Sep 26, 2018

τί οὖν ἐστιν Ἀπολλῶς; τί δέ ἐστιν Παῦλος; διάκονοι δι’ ὧν ἐπιστεύσατε, καὶ ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Κύριος ἔδωκεν.

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task."
NIV

"Who then is Apollos? And who is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord has given to each."
BLB

What is the part of the text about?

a) Everyone of us believed as the Lord has given to each of us?
b) Or were Paul and Apollo assinged to their tasks as the Lord has given to them?

KJV1611 · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

τί οὖν ἐστιν Ἀπολλῶς; τί δέ ἐστιν Παῦλος; διάκονοι δι’ ὧν ἐπιστεύσατε, καὶ ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Κύριος ἔδωκεν.

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task."
NIV

"Who then is Apollos? And who is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord has given to each."
BLB

What is the part of the text about?

a) Everyone of us believed as the Lord has given to each of us?
b) Or were Paul and Apollo assinged to their tasks as the Lord has given to them?

Neither, it means that the Lord gives every believer a minister that calls them to the Lord.

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

v.6 seems in keeping with how the NIV reads, each being assigned a task, because in this verse 3 works are described, the planting, the watering, and the bringing about of increase, and 3 who perform each, first Paul, then Apollos and ultimately God.

trofimus · Sep 26, 2018

posthuman said:

Actually, I think the verse 6 is more for the second reading... because "God is the one making it grow"... But yeah, depends, hm..

Hevosmies · Sep 26, 2018

Here is the right translation of it:

1 Corinthians 3:5
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

KJV

trofimus · Sep 26, 2018

Hevosmies said:

This translation is still ambiguous.

PS · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom you believed, even as the Lord gave to each? I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither is he who plants anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. (1Co 3:5-7 MKJV)

Paul and Apollos are the ministers or evangelists who brought the people to the Lord for salvation, but it is God who gives the increase, or using the farming analogy in the verse, the farmer plants, waters and tends the plants who are likened to the new converts, but in the end it is God who gives eternal life.

The lesson is to believe in God, not man.

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 26, 2018

I believe we should look at how the word "G1325" (from your verse 5) is used elsewhere in the same context [chpt], and that's in verse 10:

"According to the grace of God which is given [having been given, G1325] unto me [Paul], as a wise masterbuilder, I [Paul] have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon." [see also verses 11-15 for wider context]

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 26, 2018

TheDivineWatermark said:

Just to clarify, in case anyone might misunderstand what I've put, I believe the context is referring to [to, for, and about] "the Church which is His body" (not to all other saints of all other time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; and certainly not about the unsaved (until they are saved

, that is, if they come to faith [in this present age])]

Nehemiah6 · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

This a good example of the confusion caused by modern Bible versions. So back to the KJB: Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

In other words Paul had his ministry, and Apollos had his ministry. But Paul correctly points out that they are merely ministers (servants) of God, therefore "nothing". It is God who gets the glory and praise when souls are saved. Therefore Christians are not to elevate men, or be followers of men.

KJV1611 · Sep 26, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

You got most of it but the last part is saying that just like the Lord gave Paul and Apollos as ministers to lead them to Christ, the Lord also gives ministers to every man so that they can be led to the Lord... whether they accept it or reject it, God sends everyone a minister.

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

i think v.6 at least tells us that this interpretation doesn't fit:

KJV1611 said:

because the very next thing Paul says isn't that Paul evangelized some, Apollos evangelized others - but that each played a different role in the salvation of the individuals he's writing to, with God ultimately receiving the glory. Paul planted; Apollos watered. it does not say 'Paul planted some; Apollos planted others'

yes?

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

trofimus said:

in re: (a) we find that elsewhere, in Romans 12:3 - that God has distributed a measure of faith to each.
in re: (b) we find that elsewhere as well, in the same letter even - 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 - one body, many parts.

both are true, but personally i think (b) fits the context better. i wish i was competent to comment on the Greek.. one day, i hope, if it's in His will for me

KJV1611 · Sep 26, 2018

posthuman said:

Yes I agree, they both ministered to them. God does give the increase and receives the glory but in the KJV that's not what the last part of the verse is saying.

1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

What did the Lord give to every man? It wasn't salvation, but God did send ministers to everyone on this planet through person to person, person to bible or person to nature. God has given a minister to everyone.

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

KJV1611 said:

i should say, i do believe this is true - Romans 10:14, how can they hear if no one proclaims the word? even in this age of relative high literacy, where we may *hear* by reading the preserved written word.
this is true, but i don't personally believe this being the specific meaning of v.5 is supported by the context of v.6

i can see how one might get the idea from v.4, seeing that the brethren were mixed up in their thinking, boasting about 'I am of Paul' and 'I am of Apollos' -- how you might assume they are saying this because these are the ones who first brought the gospel to various ones. but the text doesn't make this explicit ((so it *may* not be)), and i have heard some teacher saying about this in the past, that in this Hellenized society of Corinth, people followed orators as we follow sports stars or singers on tv competitions. people skilled at rhetoric were celebrities, and they had 'fans' and 'backers' -- you could maybe get a Socrates replica tunic with his name and player number on in the stoa souvenir shop, and a Zeno pennant or big foam '#1' thing to put on your hand. the idea being, church members were treating Paul & Apollos like this, like celebrities, and forming fantasy evangelism leagues.
i don't know how accurate that is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. and it fits with how in v.6 Paul describes them playing different roles in the same work, with God being the one who should be glorified, to the exclusion of men.

anyway @KJV1611 i'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just disagreeing that this is what Paul is writing about, right here

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

KJV1611 said:

God gave to each man a measure of faith, Romans 12:3.
God gave each a measure of the Spirit, 1 Cor. 12:11.
He gives, to us, faith, that we may believe. He gives to us that believe His Spirit, which works in and through us to act individually in different roles - as parts of one body.
i think Paul is saying in v.5 that these people came to believe through the two of them, who aren't any different than them, because they too both received from God the faith by which they believed - to those who believe, the Lord has given it to them to believe ((as Philippians 1:29 also says)).
and in v.6 he describes that he and Apollos did not play the same role - but two different ones.
through the roles they played, the people came to salvation. in that way they are minsters: the one who plants is a minister, and the one who waters is also a minister. so is the one who pulls weeds, and who adds fertilizer. so is the one who pollinates; we all are different parts of one body.

KJV1611 · Sep 26, 2018

posthuman said:

i should say, i do believe this is true - Romans 10:14, how can they hear if no one proclaims the word? even in this age of relative high literacy, where we may *hear* by reading the preserved written word.
this is true, but i don't personally believe this being the specific meaning of v.5 is supported by the context of v.6

i can see how one might get the idea from v.4, seeing that the brethren were mixed up in their thinking, boasting about 'I am of Paul' and 'I am of Apollos' -- how you might assume they are saying this because these are the ones who first brought the gospel to various ones. but the text doesn't make this explicit ((so it *may* not be)), and i have heard some teacher saying about this in the past, that in this Hellenized society of Corinth, people followed orators as we follow sports stars or singers on tv competitions. people skilled at rhetoric were celebrities, and they had 'fans' and 'backers' -- you could maybe get a Socrates replica tunic with his name and player number on in the stoa souvenir shop, and a Zeno pennant or big foam '#1' thing to put on your hand. the idea being, church members were treating Paul & Apollos like this, like celebrities, and forming fantasy evangelism leagues.
i don't know how accurate that is, but it makes a lot of sense to me. and it fits with how in v.6 Paul describes them playing different roles in the same work, with God being the one who should be glorified, to the exclusion of men.

anyway @KJV1611 i'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just disagreeing that this is what Paul is writing about, right here

Are you making fun of my #7 Jersey with Apostle Paul on the back of it.

posthuman · Sep 26, 2018

KJV1611 said:

that does sound fun..

if we both wear our jerseys and hang out we could dress up as 1 Corinthians 3:4 for halloween haha

KJV1611 · Sep 26, 2018

posthuman said:

Now that's too funny. All we need to do now is figure out how earn points and we can create a fantasy league.

dcontroversal · Sep 26, 2018

A couple of points to ponder....

Remember what Jesus said....All that the Father has given me I will lose nothing but raise it up the last day.

How shall they hear except one be sent?

Paul and Apollos planted and watered the word...God cause it to sprout, grow and yield

Without a doubt God leads those proclaiming the truth to individuals seeking the truth and or God leads those seeking to those who proclaim the truth

Phillip and the Ethopian is one such example...

In some cases the Lord steps in himself.....such is the case with Saul....

Numerous examples...no hard fast rules per se....

1 Cor 3:5 - how to translate?

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