Angels

The first sentence is simply citing yourself. It is what is called a circular argument.

Before getting into the depth of why that is a complete out of context juxtaposition, please consider the timeframe of both statements and that "Satan" is already named in Job. Job 1 is not speaking of the context of Genesis 6, and not dealing with the pre-flood world. There are texts in Job that do deal with it, and it speaks of "men".

Sons of God in Job are differing than those in Genesis 6. If you would listen, I might share why that is so.

Of course you disagree. You trust your research, I trust mine. Your research fills in too many blanks with subjection. Don’t worry, you are among the masses whose beliefs are grounded in generations of confirmation bias. All I can say is read the text. It spells it out perfectly. I’m sure this will earn another “red X”, from your opinion.

I do not trust my research. Again, assertion, even a terrible guess. It isn't true.

I trust the word itself and the explanation it gives. Now, before this becomes what it always does (tangent nothingness), address the two starting points:

[1] Angels do not "take on ... bodies". They already have them (1 Corinthians 15:39-40) permanently, see "are as" (Matthew 22:30), which is present tense, and that verse (and their bodies) ties to Jesus own resurrected body (Philippians 3:21; Luke 24:39).

[2] Angels do not take on "human" bodies, as they have a differing flesh or body than man-kind (Jude 1:7, 'Strange flesh" = 'hetero-sarx', and not "homo-sarx" (same flesh)).

Agreed Christ stated heavenly flesh is different, and we will be receiving such at the resurrection. Not all “angels” are “elohim”. You are purposely dodging the obvious with double talk. Are you stating that you don’t trust your research? Angel means messenger, established. Elohim, means gods. Genesis doesn’t state that angels came and mated with humans. It states the sons of the gods did, a direct translation. This is what just about every civilization’s origin stories state, mythos or otherwise. For that matter, to a non-believer, the Bible is mythos. I said ask Jesus because He is in fact man and God, by definition a hybrid. If you can’t resolve that then there is no point continuing.

Is there a reason you haven't addressed this post? It's all Scripture and NO Book of Enoch.

Please answer the questions.
1. Was it the sons of Seth that Job referred to coming before the Lord and rejoicing when He made Creation?

2. If it is not as Jude says, the sexual sin of going after strange flesh that the angels are being held in Tarturus until the final judgement, what sin ARE they being held for?

3. Can human believers and unbelievers mate and have super human Giant children?

"Sons of God" - Same Hebrew term used used again only in Job as a clear reference to Angels.
Job 1:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
Satan Attacks Job’s Character
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and [a]Satan also came among them.
Job 38:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

it would be ludicrous to think that the "sons of Seth" were there at the Creation of the World.

Jude, the Lord's half brother, identifies these beings specifically as Angels, and ties their punishment to the sexual sin they committed. They left their 1st estate, or habitation.
Jude 6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their [a]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

The Greek word is "oiketerion". The only other use of this word is here:
2 Corinthians 5:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [a]habitation which is from heaven,

As you can see, this is a clear reference to the Heavenly body we will receive. The ANGELS that fell LEFT these bodies, and mated with human women. THAT'S THE REASON THEY ARE IN CHAINS IN PRISON!

Angels can take on EARTHLY bodies, in HUMAN form. It doesn't make them human. The Angels cannot mate IN HEAVEN. There is no disagreement about that.

How does a human son of Seth, mate with a human son of Cain, and produce a super human giant? Unless we want to completely allegorize ALL the Giants in Scripture now.

Of course Angels have physical bodies.. The Angels that visited Abraham before they went to Sodom to rescue Lot ate the food that was prepared for them.. And when they where in Sodom they physically grabbed Lot and pulled him inside his house to save him from the Mob that had gathered to assault the angels.

Genesis 18: KJV
1 "And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; {2} And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, {3} And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: {4} Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: {5} And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. {6} And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. {7} And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. {8} And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat."

Genesis 19:KJV
1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;"

Genesis 19: KJV
4 "¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: {5} And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. {6} And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, {7} And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. {8} Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. {9} And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. {10} But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. {11} And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door."

Indeed. now, according to Jude 1:7, what kind of flesh do angels (contextually related to Genesis, in the time of Lot) have? 'Hetero', (strange, differing) or 'homo' (same) flesh (sarx) to man-kind?

I did briefly. I will in detail when you are desirous to know. Right now, you did not even consider what I said in that small bit.

It will also be a few days, since this weekend, beginning tomorrow, is a memorial of a wife of friend who died recently, and personally I think it more important, than this same ol' stuff re-hashed to people who don't care, and no matter how much evidence, won't change their minds. It gets tired really. Hopefully, around Sunday or so, late, look for your detailed answers.

There are many passages of Scripture that tell us to LOVE, and FORGIVE, and turn the other cheek, and that God would NEVER punish the innocent with the guilty. I can list them if you like, but I'm sure we are all familiar with most of them.

And I'd be willing to bet virtually ALL of us agree that the Lord is the SAME yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

If both of those statements are true, then how can we reconcile God killing EVERY man, woman, child, and baby with the flood? Or when He commands over and over again to the Children of Israel to slaughter with the sword EVERY man, woman, child, and baby?

These guys went in took out their swords and thrust them through EVERY little child, and were TOLD to do so by God! Picture that a second.

I know people have a lifelong vision of what Angels are supposed to be, and it is really tough to pull down that facade, but if God isn't trying to cleanse humanity from fallen angel DNA, explain to me how He commands His people to look a 3 yr old little boy or girl in the eye and run a sword through them!?

So no matter how this post is answered it will come off as harsh or unloving. Really Ugly tactic to bring in the death of your friend's wife in a discussion that has no bearing on that. The absolute truth is I also have a friend who's mother died yesterday. I love them and are hurting for them, but what bearing does that have here?

YOU chose to come and post here. Because thou sayest something that's now the end of it?

You joined CC 3 days ago. How can this be the "same ol' stuff rehashed"? Unless you have been here before or just constantly seek out this issue all over the place with other people?

What ever the nature of the physical bodies of the Angels they where capable of producing hybrid offspring with human woman.. The Giants..

Not only that, but these beings also ATE Earthly food, and we are told that as we go about our lives we may encounter Angels and not know they are Angels.

You just denied plain scripture before you, Jude 1:7. It is as clear as crystal. Angels have differing (hetero) flesh (sarx) than man-kind does, for 'angels' are a differing "kind". According to the Law of Genesis, "Kind" can only bring forth "Kind".

Feline (Cat) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Equine (horse) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Canine (Dog) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Pithecus (Gr. for Ape) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, and so on. None can breed with humans, and neither with the other, as per God's own Law. See also 1 Corinthians 15:39-41.

Never in scripture is it ever granted to 'angels' anywhere to "multiply", "fill the earth", "bring forth after their kind", nor have they any "seed" to do so whatsoever, and so on. Jesus was clear also, that fallen mankind, in the likeness of this sinful flesh, are not yet as the Angels are (Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25) only exceptions are Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Firstfruits and Jesus, all of whom are in Heaven).

You would rather deny specifically what Jude 1:7 (and the whole of scripture for that matter, as I am about to fully demonstrate) says, and keep on going? That way lies the greatest danger for you. Please do not do so. I ask you to reconsider carefully Jude 1:7 in what it plainly says.

I quoted it right to you, and yet you say it says "what ever the nature"? It clearly says, "Hetero-sarx" (differing/strange flesh), because angels have unfallen nature, unfallen flesh (as per Hebrews 2:16), while man-kind upon this earth have sinful (fallen) flesh nature (Romans 8:3).

There is very much more to share on this subject, for God has indeed shown me the truth as it is written.

I have not even gotten to the serious contradictions that would arise otherwise yet.

None of that is in question - at all. Non-sequitur. Angels looking like (covering their glory) as a normal man (Genesis 17-19, etc), is not a change of their actual nature/flesh and eating (there is food in heaven, the tree of Life and river of life, is there and manna, fruit, etc), isn't 'sex' (well for some).

You are incorrectly assuming, again. I refer to the many places I have shared this (not here), and the same ol' material is trotted out, and some even badly copied. Instead of jumping to incorrect conclusions, simply ask for clarification and I would be glad to oblige.

No. And if you had read my brief response, you would have understood that. My detailed answer is coming. Look for it.

Oh yay the Greek Game ('tartarus'). Do you even know what that refers to? I do. And no I am not asking for you to identify here, it is at this time simply rhetorical.

Jude is written in a special chiastic (or even epanados if you will) structure. In simple terms, it is written in a very parallel order. i will demonstrate this shortly, and it ties also into Peter by language.

To state it briefly before the detailed and undeniable response, there is no 'sexual' sin of angels in Jude. (period) You incorrectly read the parallelism there. Jude 1:5,6,7 are the first portion of the parallel or chiasm. Jude 1:8 is the concluding portion, and each line is individually separate from the other, as is the concluding arms. I will demonstrate this in a bit.

Actually yes. Happens still, even among the animal kingdom (like among large cats, tiger/lion, etc and even bears, horse types). There are Giants even today, in modern history (100% human).

[1] Robert Wadlow (height 8'11.1'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow



[2] Martin Van Buren Bates (height 7'7.5'') (aka Confederate Giant) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Van_Buren_Bates



[3] Anna Haining (Swan) Bates (height - 7'11'') (aka Giantess of Nova Scotia) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Haining_Bates



[2] and [3] were married:




[4] Pier Gerlofs Donia (height - ) (aka grutte pier) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_Gerlofs_Donia

Supposedly His sword:



[5] Angus Mòr MacAskill (height - 7'9'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_MacAskill



[6] John William Bud Rogan (height - 8'6'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rogan



[6] Zeng Jinlian (height - 8'1.75'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeng_Jinlian

{no picture}

[7] Maximus Thrax (height - approx 8'6'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximinus_Thrax



[8] Jane Bunford (height - 7'11'') - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Bunford

{no picture}

[9] Patagonian giants:

Here is an excerpt from Pigafetta’s diary:

[10] others:

"Herodotus in Book 1, Chapter 68: Describes how the Spartans uncovered in Tegea the body of Orestes which was seven cubits long -- around 10 feet. In his book, 'The Comparison of Romulus with Theseus' Plutarch describes how the Athenians uncovered the body of Theseus, which was of more than ordinary size.

The kneecaps of Ajax were exactly the size of a discus for the boy's pentathlon, wrote Pausanias. A boy's discus was about twelve centimeters in diameter, while a normal adult patella is around five centimeters, suggesting Ajax may have been around 14 feet tall.

Pliny: The Arabian giant Gabara was 9 feet 9 inches. This Arabian giant is mentioned by Pliny, who says he was the tallest man seen in the days of Claudius.

Andronicus II: was 10 feet in height. He was grandson of Alexius Comnnus Nictas.

Elea'zer: was 7 cubits (nearly 10.5 feet). Vitellius sent this giant to Rome; and he is mentioned by Josephus. (Josephus speaks of a Jew 10 feet 2 inches)." - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/giants-historical-record-john-jensen-jr-

I was simply telling you the legitimate reason that I was leaving for a few days (which is of more importance that this present failure to agree) and would not be back to respond until then. I had hoped it would garner charity. I was wrong.

The short notes (seriously, the main study is over 100 pages, in depth):

The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, having, as Adam [Luke 3:38 KJB], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47 KJB], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5] before his fall [Micah 4:8], and see also the angelic “morning stars” which are the hosts:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

See also:

1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

2Ch 18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 KJB account.

Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood in Heaven (3rd), and Job 38:4-7 KJB deals with the timeframe long before the flood in Heaven (3rd), when the earth was created, when there was no man-kind as Adam.

The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5 KJB, and please notice it speaks of “men” (mankind, not angelic beings).

Job 22:15 Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden?
Job 22:16 Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood:
Job 22:17 Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do for them?

Job 26:5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.

For more detail on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 1:27, 4:26 KJB, etc., and for "the daughters of men", see Genesis 4:16-24,5:3 KJB.

See also the following for “sons”, “children”, “father” of the good, etc:

Genesis 6:2,4; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 8:18, 9:6, 63:16, 64:8; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9,45 6:9; Luke 3:38, 6:35,36, 11:2, 20:26; John 1:12, 11:52, 12:36; Romans 1:7, 8:14,16,17,19,21, 9:8, 9:26 [citing Hosea 1:10]; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2, 6:18; Galatians 1:4, 3:26, 4:6,7; Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 1:2, 2:15, 4:20; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 1:1,2, 2:16; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:10,13 [citing Isaiah 8:18], 12:7,9; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 1:3, 3:1,2, 5:2.

See also the following for the “sons”, “children”, “father” of the evil, etc.:

Genesis 3:15; Matthew 13:38; John 8:42,44; Acts 13:10; Romans 6:16, 9:8; Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6; Hebrews 12:8; 1 Peter 3:19 [compare to Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6,7, 61:1; Luke 4:18], 3:20; 1 John 3:8,10,12, 4:4,5,6,7,8.

See the following for comparison with the Genesis 6:2,4 account:

See Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 24:3,37.

See Esau and Jacob in Genesis 26:34,35, 28:8,9 [comparing to Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6], 36:2.

See Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6

See Jacob and Hamor in Genesis 34:9,14

See Moses in Exodus 34:15,16

See in Deuteronomy 17:17

See Balaam in Numbers 25:1,2,3

See in Judges 3:5,6,7

See Samson the Judge in Judges 14:1,2,3

See the Chronicles in 1 Chronicles 5:24,25

See Ezra in Ezra 9:1,2,11,12

See Nehemiah in Nehemiah 9:2, 10:28,29,30, 13:23,25,26,27

See Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

Many “Sons of God” “looked”/“saw” [“saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” and “took them wives of all which they chose” [Genesis 6:2]] and "beheld" [Just as did Samson, “she pleaseth me well”, or King David who went after Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and his friend, through covetousness had Uriah killed in action “from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman [was] very beautiful to look upon” [2 Samuel 11:2, 12:9 KJB] and Solomon who “multiplied wives” and “loved many strange women” and all Israel who took of the “daughters of the land”], and then “lusted and coveted” and so were ensnared being “Vex[ed], Beguiled, To Commit Trespass Against The LORD, Commit Fornication, Eat things sacrificed unto Idols, worshipped idols” [Numbers 25:18, 31:16; Revelation 2:14]:

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

See also the words of Jesus, as it was in the days of Noah and Lot:

Job 21:7,14, 22:15,16,17; Matthew 24:37,38; Luke 17:26,27; 2 Peter 2:5, 3:3,6.

In the greater overall picture there is a like message and call for the “people of God” also today to “come out” of Spiritual "Babylon” [just as God had done with physical Babylon; Jeremiah 51:9; Isaiah 52:11] that “great Whore” [Revelation 17:1, 19:2]:

See 2 Corinthians 6:14,15,16,17,18; Revelation 18:4.

For “giants” of men, after the flood, see:

Genesis 10:8,9, 14:5, 15:20; Numbers 13:32,33; Deuteronomy 2:11,20,21, 3:11,13, 9:2; Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2 Samuel 5:18,22, 21:16,18,19,20,22; 1 Chronicles 11:23, 14:9, 20:4,5,6; Isaiah 17:5, 45:14

For “men of reknown” see:

Numbers 1:16, 16:2, 26:9; 1 Chronicles 5:24, 12:30

For more specific details see the Sons of God detailed study (I will share this in a while):

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Dualistic texts, for godly men [whose names written in heaven] and angelic beings [who physically are in/from heaven]:

Psalm 29:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and strength.

Psalms 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?

We shall get to all of the texts mentioned so far, including Genesis 17-19; also with the evens of Sodom and Gomorrah, Jude, Peter and other texts, ans as time allows, dismantle the so-called 'book of enoch' (which one?, demonstrating its contradictory errors in relation to scripture, and within itself).