John 10:30
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In what respect are the Father and Son one according to the context? 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The Father and Son are one in essence/nature.
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Well it certaintly is true they are one in purpose but there is more to what Jesus said at John 10:30. It literally reads in the Greek, I and My Father "WE" are one." Like mailmandan stated, they are one in nature or essence. This is why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus at vs33 because Jesus was claiming equality with God His Father. The Jews clearly understood what Jesus had meant at vs30.
And the other point Jesus was making that the sheep at vs28 are equally safe in the Father's hand as well as in the Son's hand. Now, the Jews said that Jesus was making Himself out God, (vs33). So why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6 at vs35,36?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And the other point Jesus was making that the sheep at vs28 are equally safe in the Father's hand as well as in the Son's hand. Now, the Jews said that Jesus was making Himself out God, (vs33). So why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6 at vs35,36?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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1
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L
Well it certaintly is true they are one in purpose but there is more to what Jesus said at John 10:30. It literally reads in the Greek, I and My Father "WE" are one." Like mailmandan stated, they are one in nature or essence. This is why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus at vs33 because Jesus was claiming equality with God His Father. The Jews clearly understood what Jesus had meant at vs30.
And the other point Jesus was making that the sheep at vs28 are equally safe in the Father's hand as well as in the Son's hand. Now, the Jews said that Jesus was making Himself out God, (vs33). So why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6 at vs35,36?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
And the other point Jesus was making that the sheep at vs28 are equally safe in the Father's hand as well as in the Son's hand. Now, the Jews said that Jesus was making Himself out God, (vs33). So why does Jesus bring up Psalm 82:6 at vs35,36?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Psalm 82 doesn't have vs 35,36
In what respect are the Father and Son one according to the context?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The word of God is God revealing Himself to people by words written in a book.
The Word of God is God revealing Himself personally by manifesting Himself in the flesh.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
While Jesus is God, I do not believe that Jesus was saying I and My Father are one as in essence, nature, but that He was saying that He is God and man together in harmony, God manifest in the flesh, the Word of God, and God revealing Himself to the Jews by a visible human image.
So Jesus was saying that He is God Himself in a human body revealing truth to them, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus and the truth He is telling, for to reject what the man Christ Jesus says is to reject what God says, for the Father said in Isaiah that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which the Father spoke to them by the man Christ Jesus, which Jesus said it is not His words, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works.
If Jesus was saying to them I and My Father are one in the sense of essence, nature, would not have the impact that saying He is God Himself in a visible human image to them speaking the truth, and that is what God came to do speak to them by the man Christ Jesus, His own personal human body.
God came to tell them by His own humanity the truth of the New Testament, and the Jews did not have a concept of a trinity, and did not know about a Father and Son who were both God, but only knew the Father as God, and Jesus was not trying to preach a trinity to them, but eternal life through the Son, which the man Christ Jesus is the Mediator between God and men, and the man Christ Jesus' shed blood.
So I believe when Jesus said I and My Father are one He is saying He is God in a visible human image, the man Christ Jesus, and is God Himself personally revealing truth to them, which goes along with the theme of what Jesus was preaching while on earth.
So I believe it is God and man, I and My Father are one, and not meaning one in essence, nature, as Father and Son both being God.
The Bible says the Son was made according to the flesh, and made of a woman, made under the law, but Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so Father and Son in this instance can be God and man as I and My Father are one, which goes more with what Jesus was trying to preach to the Jews.
Jesus said before Abraham was, I am, and wanted the Jews to know He is God revealing truth to them by the man Christ Jesus, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus for it is God Himself in a visible human image revealing truth to them.
I and My Father are one, so listen to Me for I am your God revealing truth to you by My humanity that speaks to you by My words.
God and man together in purpose preaching the Gospel.
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L
I like how you place the verses
just on the beginning part John 1:1 here's mine.
Jh1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jh1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jh1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jh1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jh1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jh1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jh1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jh1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jh1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jh1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jh1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
Jh1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Jh1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jh1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Jh1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
Jh1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
Jh1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
just on the beginning part John 1:1 here's mine.
Jh1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jh1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jh1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jh1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jh1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jh1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jh1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jh1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jh1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jh1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jh1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
Jh1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Jh1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jh1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Jh1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
Jh1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
Jh1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The word of God is God revealing Himself to people by words written in a book.
The Word of God is God revealing Himself personally by manifesting Himself in the flesh.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
While Jesus is God, I do not believe that Jesus was saying I and My Father are one as in essence, nature, but that He was saying that He is God and man together in harmony, God manifest in the flesh, the Word of God, and God revealing Himself to the Jews by a visible human image.
So Jesus was saying that He is God Himself in a human body revealing truth to them, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus and the truth He is telling, for to reject what the man Christ Jesus says is to reject what God says, for the Father said in Isaiah that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which the Father spoke to them by the man Christ Jesus, which Jesus said it is not His words, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works.
If Jesus was saying to them I and My Father are one in the sense of essence, nature, would not have the impact that saying He is God Himself in a visible human image to them speaking the truth, and that is what God came to do speak to them by the man Christ Jesus, His own personal human body.
God came to tell them by His own humanity the truth of the New Testament, and the Jews did not have a concept of a trinity, and did not know about a Father and Son who were both God, but only knew the Father as God, and Jesus was not trying to preach a trinity to them, but eternal life through the Son, which the man Christ Jesus is the Mediator between God and men, and the man Christ Jesus' shed blood.
So I believe when Jesus said I and My Father are one He is saying He is God in a visible human image, the man Christ Jesus, and is God Himself personally revealing truth to them, which goes along with the theme of what Jesus was preaching while on earth.
So I believe it is God and man, I and My Father are one, and not meaning one in essence, nature, as Father and Son both being God.
The Bible says the Son was made according to the flesh, and made of a woman, made under the law, but Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so Father and Son in this instance can be God and man as I and My Father are one, which goes more with what Jesus was trying to preach to the Jews.
Jesus said before Abraham was, I am, and wanted the Jews to know He is God revealing truth to them by the man Christ Jesus, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus for it is God Himself in a visible human image revealing truth to them.
I and My Father are one, so listen to Me for I am your God revealing truth to you by My humanity that speaks to you by My words.
God and man together in purpose preaching the Gospel.[/QUOTE
Well let's see where your at matt? You said this: "While Jesus is God, I do not believe that Jesus was saying I and My Father are one as in essence, nature," Why not matt? Read the context again matt. After Jesus says He and the Father are one, what is the reaction of the Jews? Vs31, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Vs32, Jesus says to them "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Now, watch the answer the Jews give to Jesus. "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy matt?) and because YOU BEING A MAN, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." The Jews already know or believe that Jesus Christ is a man but they are contending how can a man be God?
I know your hung up on the nature and essence issue but look at it this way. And btw, as a side note, none of this has to do with the Trinity. Were talking about who is Jesus Christ. Forget the Trinity for now. The question is whether or not the Jews are correctly or incorrectly understanding Jesus is not so much the issue. The issue is what was it that Jesus said that caused them the Jews to say He was claiming to be God that so upset them?
Let's go back to John 5:17 where Jesus says, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." The reaction of the Jesus is at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why?) because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, was was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Moreover, look what Jesus says to his parents at Luke 2:49 when He was onlyh 12 years old. "And He said to them, Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE?"
And what about at John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly truly, before Abraham sprang into existence I am." What was the Jews reaction to this statement? Vs59, "Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, why matt? Now, I could go on to John 19:7 and also the trial record notes at Matthew 26:57-67.
This now brings me back to the question I ask in my other post. Why did Jesus Christ bring up Psalm 82:6 here at John 10:34-39? Jesus is being His own commentary because He Himself brings up the issue of "gods," why?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The word of God is God revealing Himself to people by words written in a book.
The Word of God is God revealing Himself personally by manifesting Himself in the flesh.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
While Jesus is God, I do not believe that Jesus was saying I and My Father are one as in essence, nature, but that He was saying that He is God and man together in harmony, God manifest in the flesh, the Word of God, and God revealing Himself to the Jews by a visible human image.
So Jesus was saying that He is God Himself in a human body revealing truth to them, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus and the truth He is telling, for to reject what the man Christ Jesus says is to reject what God says, for the Father said in Isaiah that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which the Father spoke to them by the man Christ Jesus, which Jesus said it is not His words, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works.
If Jesus was saying to them I and My Father are one in the sense of essence, nature, would not have the impact that saying He is God Himself in a visible human image to them speaking the truth, and that is what God came to do speak to them by the man Christ Jesus, His own personal human body.
God came to tell them by His own humanity the truth of the New Testament, and the Jews did not have a concept of a trinity, and did not know about a Father and Son who were both God, but only knew the Father as God, and Jesus was not trying to preach a trinity to them, but eternal life through the Son, which the man Christ Jesus is the Mediator between God and men, and the man Christ Jesus' shed blood.
So I believe when Jesus said I and My Father are one He is saying He is God in a visible human image, the man Christ Jesus, and is God Himself personally revealing truth to them, which goes along with the theme of what Jesus was preaching while on earth.
So I believe it is God and man, I and My Father are one, and not meaning one in essence, nature, as Father and Son both being God.
The Bible says the Son was made according to the flesh, and made of a woman, made under the law, but Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so Father and Son in this instance can be God and man as I and My Father are one, which goes more with what Jesus was trying to preach to the Jews.
Jesus said before Abraham was, I am, and wanted the Jews to know He is God revealing truth to them by the man Christ Jesus, so they should listen to the man Christ Jesus for it is God Himself in a visible human image revealing truth to them.
I and My Father are one, so listen to Me for I am your God revealing truth to you by My humanity that speaks to you by My words.
God and man together in purpose preaching the Gospel.[/QUOTE
Well let's see where your at matt? You said this: "While Jesus is God, I do not believe that Jesus was saying I and My Father are one as in essence, nature," Why not matt? Read the context again matt. After Jesus says He and the Father are one, what is the reaction of the Jews? Vs31, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Vs32, Jesus says to them "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Now, watch the answer the Jews give to Jesus. "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy matt?) and because YOU BEING A MAN, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." The Jews already know or believe that Jesus Christ is a man but they are contending how can a man be God?
I know your hung up on the nature and essence issue but look at it this way. And btw, as a side note, none of this has to do with the Trinity. Were talking about who is Jesus Christ. Forget the Trinity for now. The question is whether or not the Jews are correctly or incorrectly understanding Jesus is not so much the issue. The issue is what was it that Jesus said that caused them the Jews to say He was claiming to be God that so upset them?
Let's go back to John 5:17 where Jesus says, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." The reaction of the Jesus is at John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, (why?) because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, was was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Moreover, look what Jesus says to his parents at Luke 2:49 when He was onlyh 12 years old. "And He said to them, Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE?"
And what about at John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly truly, before Abraham sprang into existence I am." What was the Jews reaction to this statement? Vs59, "Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, why matt? Now, I could go on to John 19:7 and also the trial record notes at Matthew 26:57-67.
This now brings me back to the question I ask in my other post. Why did Jesus Christ bring up Psalm 82:6 here at John 10:34-39? Jesus is being His own commentary because He Himself brings up the issue of "gods," why?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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