No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

I never once claimed you can earn salvation. I have stated however, if you do actually love God, then you will make time, effort, and devotion for Him because you care. So by the act of caring, you are actually working (putting effort) into your walk with God!! But, that work/effort is not what saves you.

I was just pointing out that specific verse because Jude is the brother of Yeshua (Christ), and this is what he claims.

bye bye

I thought this question was clear enough that it didn't need clarification, but apparently it does. So I'll rephrase it so it's clearer. Really don't understand why I have to, but here goes:


Have those that say they put their trust in Jesus Christ for Salvation, yet believe there is something THEY can do that could make them unsaved, in reality mean they DIDN'T put their full trust in Jesus, and because of that, aren't saved?

There really hasn't been a definitive answer, outside of some are and some aren't. It's NOT about the doctrine. It's about belief.

Well it finally comes out.

I have seen one topic banned (and not really the topic itself) that was hypergrace.

I have seen MANY THREADS closed. (Closed and banned are two different things, topic and threads are two different things)

If you had said this when I first asked you. All this infighting could have been averted..

Until next time

I still think you think I have something against you. So I am sure next time I ask you a simple question. The same will happen.

Which is sad.

as a person who has faith in the promises of God (eternal life) I think a person who thinks loss of faith can cause loss of salvation may be saved, We both believe the person will not be saved n the end. One just thinks it was lost. While I think they never had it

However, I have been told by a few that even this in my thinking is dangerous..

As far as losing it because of sin, or lack of works. I do not see how they can be saved, any more than Isreal was saved by trying to add works of the law to grace. What makes them any different.

Of course this is my view..I know not everyone agrees.. and thats fine

Belief in OSAS is not the basis for salvation.

You are correct in what you stated as a basis for salvation.
If someone believes that, they are saved whether they think they have eternal security or not.
A belief in eternal security (or OSAS) is not the basis for salvation.
Thus, to not believe in OSAS is not equal to not being saved. (nice triple negative)

That being said, there is another side to this.
If a person doesn't believe in OSAS because they believe you can't be saved in the here and now,
then there may be problems. What then is the basis of their salvation if they can't be saved in the here and now?
If the basis is a works religion, then you have to evaluate from there. That's my take.
Watch out... here come the evil thumbs, (down)

rlm68 said:

I never once claimed you can earn salvation.

Click to expand...

Apologies if it appeared I stated you claimed salvation may be earned. that was not my intent.

rlm68 said:

I have stated however, if you do actually love God, then you will make time, effort, and devotion for Him because you care. So by the act of caring, you are actually working (putting effort) into your walk with God!! But, that work/effort is not what saves you.

I was just pointing out that specific verse because Jude is the brother of Yeshua (Christ), and this is what he claims.

Click to expand...

I believe any "good works" we do result from our having been born again. Eph 2:10 tells us we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I also believe the words of Jesus ... "without Me, you can do nothing"

No worries, and AMEN!!

Again I reply, no.

All it takes to save someone is childlike faith in the perfect Savior Jesus Christ.

Sometimes it takes years for people to actually believe that GOD loves THEM enough to die for them. They may understand it intelligently but not believe in their hearts God has truly adopted them.

Look at abused children who are adopted into loving homes and see how long it takes for them to trust and truly believe they won't be kicked to the curb if they do something wrong.

This world and the demonic controlled people hurt and abuse each other that what little trust there is it's faint.

What love and goodness and light in this world comes from God and His moving in our hearts. Trust is hard.

However if a soul in their heart trust and has faith in Jesus as their Savior, then God will work in their lives to see it to fruition and complete salvation.

I don't know how I can explain it more clearly.

All it takes is a single spark to start a fire.

No, Paul said even he could get disqualified for the prize. You are twisting scripture to mean what you want it to.

The road may not be pretty and there may be many course corrections and chastening by God. However God never abandons any of His children. In our hearts the Holy Spirit testifies to this truth even if we can't always hear it because of the noise.

Salvation is not a Prize, It is a gift.

Stop trying to make a grace gift, an earned prize

I did not twist anything, I interpreted it as it was written.. WRK OUT YOUR SALVATION.

If your not yet saved, or working for it. It is not yours yet..

"We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God." Acts 14:22

I do not have to say what you want nor listen to you. You sir will come to know what banning is very well.

good day.

I agree, because we are strangers in a strange land. We are daily in enemy territory and with that goes many hardships. We live in a fallen world. That alone will bring much heart ache.

But what we can not do, Let alone ever do, Is earn our way to eternal life with Christ in heaven by any thing we do or do not do.

A good friend of mine always said every morning he woke up and was not in hell, was a GOOD day,

Not only does this help him look at life in perspective but it is true, Every moment of every day we deserve hell. The only thing keeping us from hell is God, holding us in his hands with His grace and mercy, keeping his promise to be an abba father, not a spirit which we have to fear.
It also keeps us humble. Not allowing any self righteousness. If we look at the NT, We do not see the apostles going around boasting how good they are. Paul did it once, but only as a means to defend his character from the jews trying to destroy him, As he said, he was blameless according to the law. (Ie no one could accuse him of breaking the law) Yet he also said he is chief among ALL sinners.

Lol. you still cannot admit you made a mistake. I still wonder what I have done to upset you so much?

Once again. You said the TOPIC was banned. (A fact which is not true)

Your did not say people were banned and threads were closed because of fighting on both sides, (a fact that is true)

So a few people questioned what you meant so you could explain. (Just like when someone questioned me when I mistakingly said OT saints where saved the moment they trusted Christ which was a mistake on my part.. Thank God people were not afraid to question something I said.. )

Again, If you would have just said that, Non of this would have happened.

No, You do not have to listen to me, or anyone else. And I never stated otherwise, And the fact you used this strawman is.. you know not even worth saying,

It does nto matter, you should be able to admit when you have made a mistake..And then if I kept ragging on you. Then you would have a reason to question my motives and judge me or anyone else of simply attacking you.

And now you threaten to have me banned. Way to go man Way to go!

This thread was in no way intended to elicit such vitriol. I tried to mitigate that by stating up front my question was intended for those that believe they are eternally secure because of what Christ has done. Eternal Security, OSAS, or whatever name you'd like to call it. Obviously very naive of me to think those on the opposite side of this issue would simply choose to not click on it. As I pointed out there are literally hundreds of threads on this subject matter with equal, or even more animosity. Something about this question really touched a nerve with some.

It remains an important quest to me, as I stated several times, that at one time I ALSO was on the other side of this issue.

I apologize for starting it, and ask that it be discontinued. If not, I for one will not be responding to it any longer. Be Blessed.

I believe God ask our partisipation to maintain our salvation

This is the instruction

Mark 13

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.