The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOUR STATMENTS... where is the three names OF THE "FATHER" the "WORD" as well as the "HOLY SPIRIT" within the name of YESHUA, in which they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER'S HOly Scribes/Scriptures. WHERE IS IT within the name of JESUS or YESHUA.

YAH is the FATHER
YOSHUA... is the WORD, who is the SON
AH, is SIGNIFIED by the HOLY SPIRIT.

TOGETHER I AM YAHOSHUA. IF you were to take the "AH" which is SIGNIFIED by the "HOLY SPIRIT" out of MY NAME. IT WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH..... "YOSHUA" who i AM, the WORD that was MADE FLESH and DWELT among YOU..

Now you show ME WHERE in the NAME of JESUS or YESHUA, or ANY OTHER NAME is SHOWING YOU THESE THREE NAMES, that are ONLY IN MY NAME, saith YAHOSHUA. For this is HOW YOU FIND ME. And I tell you this truth this DAY. If My FATHER is BEARING RECORD to MY NAME.. His "WORD is GREATER then MAN'S, and YES, EVEN YOURS, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...
1John 5:7-13 FOR THERE ARE “THREE" WITNESSES THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE “FATHER", THE “WORD", and THE “HOLY SPIRIT": AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the “SPIRIT", and the “WATER" and the “BLOOD": and these THREE all AGREE in “ONE. If we receive the WITNESS of MEN, the “WITNESS" of the FATHER is GREATER: for this is the witness of the FATHER WHICH “HE” HATH “TESTIFIED” of His “SON”. He that believeth on the Son of the FATHER HATH THE “WITNESS” IN “HIMSELF”: he that believeth NOT THE FATHER HATH MADE “HIM”, [meaning the FATHER] A “LIAR"; because he believeth not the RECORD THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIS “SON". AND THIS IS THE “RECORD" THAT THE FATHER HATH GIVEN TO US “ETERNAL LIFE", AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS “SON”. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of the FATHER hath not life. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE ON THE “NAME" OF THE “SON" of the FATHER; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE “ETERNAL LIFE", and that ye may believe on the name of the “SON” of the FATHER.

For you have been WARNED. Do not allow yourself to AWAKEN, in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA, WHEN, WHERE, or HOW YOU GOT THERE, saith YAHOSHUA. for you have now been made ACCOUNTABLE.

Shalom

You are just basically putting a bunch of falsehoods in God's mouth. Disgusting. Stop at once in the name of Jesus.

To the ignore bin!

Here's what I read regarding G2424 (per Bible Hub):

[G2424, like in Hebrews 4:8] "2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation")."

and then H3091 says,

"Transliteration: Yehoshua ; Definition: "the LORD is salvation", Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr"

Hello Hevosmies,

And I would also add that, only those great tribulation saints and the woman/Israel who will be cared for out in the wilderness during that last 3 1/2 years, are those who will enter in and repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom. None of the wicked who survives God's wrath and remains alive when Jesus returns will enter into the millennial kingdom, but will be killed by that double-edged sword - Rev.19:17-18, 21.

^ Agreed, that ONLY "the righteous" (the "BLESSED") will enter the MK time period. [those born to them later are not "BORN automatically righteous"]

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In Scripture, where the phrase "the Day of the Lord" is used in the same context with the phrase "IN THAT DAY," it is referring to the SAME TIME PERIOD.

Such is the case in 2 Thessalonians 2, chpts 1 and 2 (2Th1:10 and 2Th2:2-3).

In that YET FUTURE "time period" ("the Day of the Lord"/"IN THAT DAY") people will either come to believe what is TRUE (2Th1:10b) or they will believe and embrace the "pseudei / the false" (2Th2:10-12). These will be the two choices.

There will still be religious people (those who "come in His name," but who do not possess HIS LIFE [thus were not raptured]) existing on the earth AFTER our Rapture... and these will "put-Scripture-together" but in such a way [being not "understood"] as Satan uses/will use it TO DECEIVE...

^ EDIT: "Such is the case with 2 Thessalonians, chpts 1 and 2..." [insufficient editing time ]


P.S. more on that (and others) later, when I'm not so busy...

First of all, I take the straightforward didactic texts as a baseline to interpret apocalyptic literature. In Paul's writings, the rapture occurs at the parousia. The resurrection occurs at the parousia.

You should refer to specific verses. Are you talking about the multitude that came out of the great tribulation from every nation? Why would those have been raptured pre-trib? If these are the people you have in mind, you are assuming Revelation is exactly chronological, and that this passage means they have been raptured.

As far as whether God literally wipes out all non-believers at Christ's return. Pretribbers, or at least the version I had taught, allowed for some non-raptured people who aren't resurrected at the end to survive and live as mortals during the tribulation.

I am not seeing any case for pre-trib here.

Also, what crowns are you talking about? The crowns on the elders? Why would you assume they were human, if that is what you are referring to?

One of those posts is not a pretrib post, and I responded to the other one. As far as your objection goes, if pre-trib is true, one could count from the day the planes fell down and the buses crashed when the Christian pilots and bus drivers were taken up and know the day. One day, we will know the day anyway, when we see Jesus comes. It hadn't been revealed back in the first century when Jesus knew that.
I do not know what kind of footwear the Savior may or may not wear. But otherwise, that sounds like an argument for pre-trib. I Thessalonians 4 puts the rapture occuring as the Lord returns, at the parousia. See verse 15.

If a Roman ambassador or emperor came for a 'parousia' visit, does it make sense that he wouldn't come to town, just go outside the city, then run off with the people who come to greet him and escort him into the city? Why would that be called a 'parousia.' He has to go there for it to be parousia, right?


Honestly, I don't know what your argument is supposed to be here. I do not know your version of pre-trib. The one I was taught had some unbelieving survivors from Jerusalem who hadn't gone to battle against Christ. It allowed for previously Israelis to survive as mortals, too.

How can we delivered fro the wrath to come, and yet participate fully in the wrath of God immediately following his return to earh as king. Postrib has us not delievered from wrath, but participating fully on Gods wrath on mankind

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You are assuming the tough times that the saints will face during the tribulation is 'the wrath to come.' Paul says we are not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So which is it for the tribulational saints who overcome the Devil by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony. Are they appointed unto wrath, or to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus' Christ? Pretribbers take a phrase out of that verse, out of context.

Also, God was able to pour out wrath on Egypt without spilling it on the saints.

All should be translated in light of the things in Post 31 and 35. Because post trib is impossible. Even 1 thess 1 refutes post trib, because it has us participating in Gods wrath.

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It is kind of frustrating talking with pre-tribbers like yourself, honestly, because you are like a broken record. You repeat really weak arguments-- like taking a verse about wrath out of it's clear context, and ignore the didactic passages of scripture.

I would like to see you actually deal with the issue of the parousia. Since the rapture happens at the parousia (I Thes. 4:15), and the man of sin is destroyed at the brightness of the parousia (II Thes. 2:8) how can pre-trib be true? Pretrib has Jesus coming back, then the man of sin coming into power, right? I've never heard of a pretribber not thinking the beast was the man of sin.

There are actual clear teachings of Paul on this. Not all the details are there, but enough to not fit with pre-trib. Then there is no scripture that puts the rapture before the tribulation. It's assumed, and pre-tribbers find little tiny clues that require assumptions-- like the not appointed unto wrath argument, or allegoricalizing 'come up hither'-- when there is direct teaching of scripture that disqualifies pre-trib as being reasonable. The only attempt I've seen at trying to show where the Bible actually places the rapture before the tribulation-- or a scenario consistent with that-- involves redefining the apostasia to be the rapture. Other than that, I've never seen anyone even show a verse or passage that sets the timing before the tribulation.

Then there is the gathering of the saints that is clearly after the tribulation in Matthew 24. Paul calls the rapture the gathering in II Thessalonians 2:1.

Maybe you can not find it because you do not want to?

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Hmmm. It's kind of irritating when someone has a theory that doesn't have support and insults or questions the motives of one who has some real evidence. It isn't very persuasive to do so, either. It's annoying at best.

What motivation does one have for wanting to go through a tough time like that, or to think of one's children or grandchildren enduring it? I could just as easily ask if you are pre-trib because you do not like the idea of suffering and dying for Jesus.

You can show actual verses, quoting them, and explaining the parts you think teach pre-trib. But my approach is to interpret apocalyptic passages as consistent with didactic passages (like Paul's writings), rather than reading a theory into the apocalytic passages and trying to work Paul's writings around an eschatology.

I also ask what you do with the parousia? Do you think there are two parousia?

I am just asking because I can find many verses that would technically support all 3, if taken alone by themselves.. So saying you can find none already puts up a red flag Others find many, even if they disagree, that technically would support it. Yet you say non, what makes you different?

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Can you show an actual passage that puts the timing of the rapture before the tribulation? Matthew 24 is explicit that the gathering of the elect is after the tribulation. Why should I take that to refer to something other than the rapture when Paul calls the rapture the gathering in II Thessalonians 2:1? Where is the passage that sets the timing of the rapture as pre-trib? I've seen people redefine apostasia to arrive at that conclusion, or try to allegoricalize 'Come up hither.' Is there anything more reasonable than either of those alternatives?

Right (bold). These are who come to faith WITHIN the tribulation period (that is, AFTER our Rapture), and of those, the ones who are still alive at the end of it will enter the MK time period in their mortal bodies (capable of reproducing/bearing children). They are saints/the righteous/the BLESSED who enter the MK time period (not the wicked, as they go away into everlasting punishment).


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Matthew 24:29-31 (said to occur AFTER the tribulation of those days) correlates with Isaiah 27:12-13 (note "WHERE" and "WHO" and that it is said "gathered ONE BY ONE" not "AS ONE" [as at our Rapture!--the Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints])

I just go off what Jesus himself said about tribulation. Whoever endurs to the end will be saved. (Non believers do not endure to the end.) The believers enter the kingdom with him. And become the nations jesus will rule..No unsaved person will enter the kingdom age, to even think they will is to fail to understand the meaning of the wrath of God. Or the kingdom age.
As far as some unsaved people allowing to live past the time Jesus returns. I have never heard this from anyone, and I have studied all views for years.
John tells us in revelation. The number of the dead will be so great birds will feast for a year. These are not believers, they are unbelievers

As far as the crowns. How can you have read revelations and seen the saints adorned in robes, who layed their crowns at the feet of the lamb who saved THEM for their sins.. and who said elders? I did not. Why did you assume I did?

Try reading the link and you will see that there is another whole year that directly follows the 7 year tribulation when the rapture takes place. There is not one place in this link where I propose a specific day or hour in which the rapture takes place:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Sorry but I stopped listening to Chuck Missler about 20 years ago when I caught him speaking an outright lie in regards to Ivan Panin.

Matthew 12:49-50 And he stretched forth his hand towards his disciples, and said, Behold, my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Thank you for the kind words sis! Please feel free to purose other links on my web site and let me know what you think sis whether here or at my email under contacts on the upper right corner on my site

https://sumofthyword.com/

Not quite when you actually pay attention to my entire link you see that Noah loaded the ark for 7 days representing seven years of harvesting on the earth that will take place through much tribulation:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Then on the eighth day which I proved to be a year also which is called "the day of the Lord" and also called "the year of His redeemed" is when the saints are taken up. The last feast called the "end gathering or Feast of Tabernacles is also 8 days long and if you understood what it symbolized you would clearly see a post trib rapture on the morning of the 8th day

Try studying this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Here are over 100 verses so take your time and please do not drown in the truth:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

If you would actually study this link you would see there is a 7 year tribulation of the saints on earth. Then "immediately after the tribulation" the year of wrath commences in which God and His Son pour out their wrath on the vessels of dishonor. 40 days into that wrath is when the saints that are left are raptured up along with the resurrected:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Nowhere does the scripture teach that every living soul is going to be killed when Jesus comes back at the end of that year of wrath but it does say "he shall rule them with a rod of iron":

Revelation 19:13-16 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

That's interesting, because Paul and his coauthors said, by the word of the Lord, that there would be a rapture.

I Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I do believe God can speak through prophecies. Sometimes, I have gotten a real sense of the Lord speaking prophetically through someone. I do not get that when I read your posts. There are scriptures in the post, but otherwise, I am not getting that sense of a prophecy being spoken. Then there are all these theological issues.

There are also the caps. We are less used to caps and our minds process them more slowly. If you want someone not to read what you write, write it in all caps.

If you actually study this link you would see the tribulation is NOT the wrath:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

The rapture/resurrection takes place "after the tribulation" at the beginning of the year of wrath and the return of Christ onto the earth takes place at the end of the year of wrath! No where in this link did I confuse the two different events as you try to surmise:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/