Are religious traditions and denominational doctrines pushing people further away from God's presence?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#21
Wow! Such cynicism! What I have found that works with regards to a church, is listen to if the message is Scriptural. But then, try to discern if the church has love. No matter how pure the doctrine, if it is not lived, practised, then it is no good at all.

But most important, examine your heart to see if you are walking close to God. Because we are the church, and the church can only function as well as each one of us walks with Christ.

So all of you pointing your fingers at the church, better realize the church is only as good as each one of us, and your pointing is pointing at you.
Amen....each church, like a chain, is only as strong as it's weakest link (member) and exactly why we are commanded to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another so much the more as we see the day approaching......! Bear ye one another's burdens......etc.....
 
Apr 4, 2017
45
1
8
#22
But then, try to discern if the church has love.
If there is a denomination, then there is no love. Sinners also love sinners. If a person loves members of his sect, this does not mean that this sect is the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is one, and there are many sect-denominations. And they have no love for one another.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#23
Let us always have hope in God's faithfulness. No matter how you see anything now it will soon change. Above all else God will prevail.
Separation from the wheat and tares will soon come. God's grace must be served even in this for everyone to take there side. We think we know and we think we see but until we are led we are to stand by untill our motives are pure.
Not all professed Christian's have the Holy Spirit, not all seek after the kingdom, not all love God. We cannot judge the heart for we do not know it. But God knows the heart of man and he has marked the hypocrite, he is against the false teacher, he will not be mocked. He gives grace to the humble but resist the proud. Those who wait on the Lord shall be saved.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#24
If there is a denomination, then there is no love. Sinners also love sinners. If a person loves members of his sect, this does not mean that this sect is the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is one, and there are many sect-denominations. And they have no love for one another.
This view reeks of ignorance.....sorry....I have experienced the love of God in churches and among their membership....a very bias, narrow minded view man!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,957
113
#25
If there is a denomination, then there is no love. Sinners also love sinners. If a person loves members of his sect, this does not mean that this sect is the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is one, and there are many sect-denominations. And they have no love for one another.
Just a small ax to grind?

I've been in many denominations, some good some bad. Some dominating, others arms wide open, to Christians, non-Christians, the poor and the needy, to the highest government officials.

The church and denomination I am in now, is one of the best I have been in. The church itself is filled with love. The pastor preaches from the Word. No one is glorifying themselves. The denomination or conference is loosely affiliated, and they have been open and caring, as I have seen in my dealings with them.

I don't know why you are so bitter and unforgiving, but it is time God shows you that you're hard heart is not from him. God hates your self-righteousness anger. Repent of this evil sin!

My Baptist church partners with a Mennonite downtown church that helps the poor. We do workshops with another Baptist denomination, because they have bigger facilities than we do. We have contact with other churches, without jealousy, recognizing that our differences don't divide us. I'm sorry if you have not seen this love of God in churches. But it exists everywhere.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#26
In the Greek original of the New Testament, there are only 2 words whose sum of the letters is 666. Both of these words refer to the two beasts of the 13th chapter of the book of Revelation.

tradition —

παράδοσιν
παράδοσις
π = 80
α = 1
ρ = 100
α = 1
δ = 4
ο = 70
σ = 200
ι = 10
ς = 200
______________
παράδοσις = 666

Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

(Matthew 15:1,2)

This is the second beast, it is similar to the Lamb, but persuades everyone to serve this world, that is, he persuades Christians to serve the first beast. This beast is a Christian religion in general.

The name of the first beast, according to the New Testament, is prosperity or wealth.

ευπορια (5 + 400 + 80 + 70 + 100 +10 + 1) = 666

prosperity (NASB)

... these he gathered together with the workmen of similar trades, and said, "Men, you know that our prosperity depends upon this business. (Acts 19:25)

wealth (KJV)

Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth. (Acts 19:25)

Hearing this word, the crowd of artisans who made idols, became furious, people became beasts:

If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus <...> (1 Corinthians 15:32)

Of course, many denominations do not preach prosperity. Some denominations may even be prosecuted in some countries.

But the fact that instead of a single Church today we have denominations, testifies to the violation of the main commandment of God and Jesus Christ:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD (Deuteronomy 6: 4)

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:21 )

As you can see, the main obstacles that prevent people from believing in Jesus Christ are the denominations of the Christian religion.
ROFL
You ignore what the early elders did and said. They created the creeds. They serve 3 purposes.
1. Defines what a Christian must believe.
2. Anything contrary is heresy.
3. Anything Biblical issue outside of it Is to agree to disagree.

The early elders saw much diverse contradictory and heretical issues and came up with the above.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,041
113
77
#27
Dont mind me for asking but i will: Is that you in the avatar? Wow

Cool outfit.

You speak swahili? Nakutakia siku njema!
I don't mind you asking. Yes it is me. It was taken some time ago but I havn't changed much.
No I don't speak Swahili. I have never been very good at languages. There isn't much call for
Swahili in my part of London
 

Miu

New member
Dec 8, 2018
7
4
3
#28
Dont mind me for asking but i will: Is that you in the avatar? Wow

Cool outfit.

You speak swahili? Nakutakia siku njema!
Yes it is me- thank you for the compliment. Yes I speak Swahili - Asante, nakutakia siku njema pia.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#29
View attachment 191741


what happened to the Netherlands in 1996?

or to the US in 1994? wow that pair of eclipses made its X pretty close to DC !
The ones you refer to did not cross from the east coast to the west coast. That is what I stated. Not a diagonal crossing from east to north etc. Think before putting foot in mouth again. Look at what happened to the USSR. Now it lost countries and is called Russia.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#30
The ad nauseam of others blasting the church in shotgun fashion...

When we broad-brush the church with condemnation while being of the church herself do we ridicule ourselves, or are we grandstanding as if we are exempt?

For the record the church has always had heresies, schism, wolves, hypocrites, false brothers and the like. There is this sense when people post these rants that somewhere in time past in a land of fantasy along a yellow brick road the church was without defect.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#31
The ad nauseam of others blasting the church in shotgun fashion...

When we broad-brush the church with condemnation while being of the church herself do we ridicule ourselves, or are we grandstanding as if we are exempt?

For the record the church has always had heresies, schism, wolves, hypocrites, false brothers and the like. There is this sense when people post these rants that somewhere in time past in a land of fantasy along a yellow brick road the church was without defect.
I am in total agreement with you. Unfortunately currently we have the major protestant denominations under the control of secular ministers there for access to the church money. As an elder and deacon in 3 different Reformed theology denominations, RCA and Presbyterian PCA, these denominations are immune to this takeover. The deacons are in charge of the money and the minister gets a salary and a small pot of money for mercy usage. Bigger allotments of money is done using the mercy committee, whatever the name is, to use the money for those in need. The churches I was part of never gave money to those in need. Instead they paid for what was needed by those in need. It became very obvious who were scammers and those in real need. Scammers went off in a huff saying obscene things while those in real need were very thankful.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#32
5 minute rule expired while I was editing.

There are other committees in charge of money for other purposes, maintainance, utilities, etc.
 

Miu

New member
Dec 8, 2018
7
4
3
#33
But WHY is it inevitable that stumbling blocks will come?

I've always wondered that.

We are told to be of ONE MIND. But how when not two christians on the planet agree? Holy Spirit is supposed to lead us into all truth, everyone claims to have the Holy Spirit and believes different things :) Fun fun fun

SOMEBODY IS WRONG, how to know who?

We wouldn't be in this mess if everyone just agreed with me :D
Indeed - if only we could all agree! But when we walk in truth and in the holy spirit we are guided right. We receive the spirit of discernment and thus know who is who.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#34
Christians need to have a proper perspective about this, and not paint all churches with the same brush. So here are some spiritual truths which should always be kept in mind.

1. The parables of the Kingdom were given to us by Christ so that we would understand at the outset that within Christendom (the outward manifestation of the Kingdom) there would be wheat and tares, sheep and goats, good fish and bad fish, leaven to contaminate the whole lump, etc.

2. The letters to the seven churches were written in the first century to illustrate the truths of the parables. There were genuine Christians, and faithful Christians, side by side with apostates, false teachers, false prophets and prophetesses. That has not changed.

3. The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 etc) was given by Christ to warn us as to what we would see today -- apostasy within Christendom.

4. Paul in his epistles also prophesied about the future Great Apostasy, and it is all around us today.

This does not mean that there are no genuine and faithful Christians around. What it does mean is that we are to be constantly aware of what is happening within Christianity at this time and avoid being deceived, while doing what is right and righteous. Not merely finger-pointing.

Just a review of all the threads on CC and other Christian forums will show that false doctrines are growing at an alarming rate, and Christians must be diligent in studying the Word and then applying it.
Great insight brother Nehemiah

What do you believe is the correct way to deal with this apostasy and false teachers etc?
Is it best to just stay in the church you are in and "weather the storm" so to speak or should we pack up and leave?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#35
The ad nauseam of others blasting the church in shotgun fashion...

When we broad-brush the church with condemnation while being of the church herself do we ridicule ourselves, or are we grandstanding as if we are exempt?

For the record the church has always had heresies, schism, wolves, hypocrites, false brothers and the like. There is this sense when people post these rants that somewhere in time past in a land of fantasy along a yellow brick road the church was without defect.
This is true. But I would also value your opinion of WHAT are we supposed to do about it?

Are we supposed to just stay in the congregation, keep attending and "weather the storm" so to speak? Or should we pack up and leave?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#36
This is true. But I would also value your opinion of WHAT are we supposed to do about it?

Are we supposed to just stay in the congregation, keep attending and "weather the storm" so to speak? Or should we pack up and leave?
I suppose we'd have to look at each individual situation in every given church.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
#37
Secularism is the meanie IMHO. It has creeped into our earthly churches subtly over time. Having said that, there are many dedicated, Christ-loving, steadfast workers in the earthly churches and they should not be overlooked. There are many devoted, Christ-loving, giving pastors, leaders in the earthly churches as well. They should not be overlooked.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
I think I understand where the op is going. Tradition and the “Old way” has prevented the church from growing to meet the needs of the people. For this reason, you see the younger generation is beng left wanting. Because this type of church does not meet their needs (since they did nto grow up in it, it is all confusing and dead to them) in fact, I went back to visit some churches who were like this, and went to a few funerals. I left feeling like the word was not even taught (it is sad to go to a funeral where the gospel is not even given) and instead of peoples needs being met, it felt like it was more important to stand in tradiction then to do as paul said, be all things to all people
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#39
Great insight brother Nehemiah

What do you believe is the correct way to deal with this apostasy and false teachers etc?
Is it best to just stay in the church you are in and "weather the storm" so to speak or should we pack up and leave?
Thanks, Bro.

For those who are already in Gospel preaching and Bible-believing churches, the minute they see evidence of false teaching and false practice, they need to meet with the church leadership and voice their concerns, while requesting that the leadership ensure that those things do not continue. The letters to the seven churches in Revelation do provide some guidance.

However, if the response is negative, and the leaders persist in error, you have no choice except to depart in peace -- pack up and leave. There's nothing to stop Christians from meeting with like-minded Christians in their homes for worship and fellowship.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#40
I think I understand where the op is going. Tradition and the “Old way” has prevented the church from growing to meet the needs of the people. For this reason, you see the younger generation is beng left wanting. Because this type of church does not meet their needs (since they did nto grow up in it, it is all confusing and dead to them) in fact, I went back to visit some churches who were like this, and went to a few funerals. I left feeling like the word was not even taught (it is sad to go to a funeral where the gospel is not even given) and instead of peoples needs being met, it felt like it was more important to stand in tradiction then to do as paul said, be all things to all people
One issue about the falling away of the young adults was researched by Christian Ministries International at creation.com. What they found is that in Sunday School if it was taught that big bang evolution fails 5 seperate scientific laws then they remained in the church. Those who did not get this information when they were in science classes in college and the professor said big bang evolution was factual most of them dropped out of church. Those who had that information stayed in church.

In other words parents make sure your children get this information!!! Here is where you can get it.

The religion of atheists is big bang evolution. The problem is it fails 5 different scientific laws. Here are some scientific sites refuting big bang evolution. That only leaves "In the begining God created the heavens and earth." Now atheists have to choose, science or hatred of God! Check out the OOPARTS site http://www.s8int.com. (Out Of Place ARTifactS) It proves the young earth since issues like C14 in diamonds proves the earth is not billions of years old. . Prove them wrong. This is the most important issue to you. If I am wrong I lose nothing. If you are wrong you lose everything.

Some sites refuting big bang evolution

Five Atheist Miracles
http://www.creation.com/five-atheist-miracles

Evidence for Creation
http://www.icr.org/evidence/

http://www.creation.com/archaeology-supports-bible

Layers in canyon supporting flood
http://www.creation.com/surprise-canyon

OOPARTS (Out Of Place ARTifactS)
http://www.s8int.com

Hidden treasures in junk DNA - not useless after all
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hidden-treasures-in-junk-dna/

http://healthland.time.com/2012/09/06/junk-dna-not-so-useless-after-all/

Big Bang Busted by 33 Top Scientists
http://www.rense.com/general53/bbng.htm

Additional Scientists Sign Up
http://web.archive.org/web/20140401081546/http://cosmologystatement.org/

Genetic study reveals 90% of animals appeared at the same time
www.techtimes.com/articles/228798/20180530/massive-genetic-study-reveals-90-percent-of-earth-s-animals-appeared-at-the-same-time.htm

Things found in coal etc.

Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Hammer

http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/paleontological/artifacts/bell/

http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=stuff_in_coal