The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

Pretrib has many. Does postrib have any?

you seem to miss the intent of post #672 ,I'll expand it to clarify it's intent

In Romans 13 and 1Peter the Christians are being told to see Rome(authority over them at that time) as if ordained by God and to pay tithes(money) to them they deserve . In Revelation 13 none can buy or sell unless they receive the mark of the beast,worship the beast ect. In wars 2 the Jews then are pressed into a revolt because they worship God and refuse to let the Romans pollute the temple of God.

(A)So in ad66-70 the Apostles are saying to the then believing Christians to see Rome as over them and to pay tribute(worship the beast and buy and sell with its money?) which cannot be correct right?

(B)The Romans (beast) survive the war/revolt(win the war instead of losing) and were not destroyed at that time(coming?) and continue into history.

(C)The Jews involved in the siege/revolt and refuse to see Rome as God, refuse to let them put images in the Temple and die for it (2Wars book 2,chapter 10,paragraph 4.

So who took the mark of the beat and were destroyed at the brightness of the Lords coming at that time(ad70)?

Most of the foundations of the different doctrines to include the "mark" are found in Genesis used to set the stage for later. the mark of the beast is simply natural unconverted man (no faith)

I would offer there is no reason to look at the mark any differently than that of the "mark of Cain" a beast of the field, created from the dust of the field .

Cain saw no value in the unseen things of God not having the faith to believe God. When his brother Abel offered the gospel because Cain had no faith it became out of sight out of mind and Cain murdered the misperceived competition Abel, not believing God witnessed the event..(walking by sight) Satan the murderer from the beginning.

Like Esau selling the gospel truth for a bowl of soup both are reckoned as fools (no God in their heart). The penalty as restless wanderers receiving no rest that come from the gospel . Their hearts remained hard all their life as they carried out the death sentence day by day, a living hell without the comfort of Christ giving them rest as he does soften our hearts.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, (gospel) and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Geneisis 4

I think one of the reasons for many looking for a outward sign to seek after as a wonder is in how we view the word hell . As to whether or not it is living work of suffering like that of Cain but rather something that occurs after we shed the bodies of death. When looking at the portion God made sure he did not die prematurely to lessen the punishment.

Cain's punishement which he said was greater than he could bear . Christ bore for us that living hell when he suffered . Christ as eternal God cannot die.

hmm, I might see that the things concerning the mark and image might be spiritually discerned but how would you suggest we get the beast to realize he isn't suppose to actually kill the ones who wont worship the image and fulfill Revelation 13:15? He might actually kill those who don't see this the way you do right?

Thanks, great question I will get back and offer my opinion.

hmm, I might see that the things concerning the mark and image might be spiritually discerned but how would you suggest we get the beast to realize he isn't suppose to actually kill the ones who wont worship the image and fulfill Revelation 13:15? He might actually kill those who don't see this the way you do right?

We are born with the mark (no faith, no belief in God.The mark represents natural unconverted man as a beast of the field under the influence of the father of lies the god of this world. A person must be born again

One thing is that angels even the ones that did not leave their own first place of habitation are not subject to the gospel . Angels have no way to tell a believer from one who is not. They long to look into the gospel, He would kill the whole human race if he could. The murdering would be without respect who they are . Walking by sight indiscriminately killing the mis-perceived competition.

Flesh and blood Christians . It was the father of lies as a law of the father a false zeal for knowing God who was working in Saul used as one of the many antichrists that were there at that time period to perform his lying will before his conversion as Paul

First i think they have a date with prophecy in that they will receive one that comes in his own name(Rev.13:18=John 5:43) and they will not see Jesus until they say(Luke 13: 35,Matt.23:39) so first they have to build a temple and receive the one who comes in it as their Messiah, then they'll say one is that king and afterwards realize it is another.

You'd have to remove 2 billion Muslims from the planet to build that temple Bro.

What I'm saying is sosandso that a temple won't be built for the MOSsad to get worshiped in - the Muslims would over run Palestine even if they all had to hike to get there.

Who is Isa and do they think he returns with the Mahdi?

Yer gotta remember Moh and his gang stole a lot of idea's from the OT and NT - I'd put as much stock in the Mahdi as I would as Benjamin Creme and his new age Maitreya.

hey,,,in part I agree. I'm Christian,always have and will be.

in Islam though Isa(Jesus) is mentioned in the Quran more than any other person(187 times). They believe he is the promised Messiah that was sent to Israel also his saying he left(John 16:17,John 14:16) was to send another(they think Mohammad is the comforter he spoke of)...and so their religion see's Isa(Jesus) and his return to destroy Al Masih ad Dajjal or the anti Messiah also similar to Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

I'm Christian though like I said,,,

I thought per Islam, they believe that Jesus came to herald the news that 'Allah's supreme prophet, 'Muhammad' was coming. They place Muhammad above all others.

Well Sunni,Shiite,,12ers ect.? Your asking if Catholic,Pentecostal's,Baptist,JW"s and Methodist all agree on the same things...

We don't even agree on all things, lol...except the Salvation ones.

If you click the links in #694 they give the basics(I mean by basics , Kurds,Pashtuns ect. aren't even mentioned) there's a different idea in one valley but over the next mountian and in the next valley a different language and estchology in Islam.

I had heard that one of these factions believe that there has to b chaos in the world for their Mahdi to return. Also I pretty sure I remember someone saying that inside the Dome of the rock there is a sign saying 'Jesus is not the son of God. Anywho, I'm still pre-trib. God has always spared His faithful children from His wrath. Good-nite for now, sir.