Not By Works

There is no "balance" between electing grace and choosing one's own self into heaven. Stop looking for balance and instead accept the truths of Scripture that are so plain and clear.

Please😢




lol
I love you bro
we are on the same page, I believe

I do not believe God is surprised who is and is not saved though He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked

He is just
but His mercy and love run so deep that His hand is outstretched even for those He is aware will not accept Him....there will be no excuse

I do not believe I can take credit for a saving faith, nor for the initial faith which made me so scared of a just punishment I deserved that I started seeking Jesus ... I do not take credit for any part of my salvation ... given that after I heard... and my indwelling response to the truth was belief... but my fleshly desire was to remain willfully ignorant to continue to justify my sinful lifestyle as morally acceptable before fellow worldly men and women....

but I do believe we have that choice.... to walk after the flesh willfully ignorant of Gods out stretched hand while rejecting what He writes on our hearts..... I did that and I take credit for that choice.... but I do not take credit for the fear being so strong from the initial call... that I had to be honest with myself to stop the dread..... again that was a natural response to what was in me....

sorry for the long winded response when I think we are in agreement anyways...




I hope you don't think I was attacking you my brother, I've got the flu... an ear infection... a throat so tore up I've been coughing blood for 9 days now.... also... I'm fairly over worked, currently at work (and was at work when I sent that)
My attacks probably wouldn't hold much weight until I'm healed anyways 😆


I know you and some of my other brothers are in conflict over the "calvinist" issue (in your hearts it's about the truth of Gods word)

I only posted one short bit of Gods word to demonstrate how loving He is and hopefuly show mr.argue that he is wrong about God and Gods word in regards to how salvation is "obtained"...


I see the divide in here... I am not sure exactly what to say or what I am supposed to try to learn that I do not know.....

I give God credit for my salvation



I may not be calvinist... or fully understand what it means😅

but I respect you and I love you like a brother and I see you as a new man with a God given heart.....

You are much like a diamond...
you shine brightly when in the light... (but your head is close to impenetrable)

BOOM

lol there is my sickly medicated jab to a calvinist... ask and ye shall recieve

There's another red X for ya!

Now, to your point above? You've been shown you are incorrect. You of all people should start implementing 2 Timothy 2:15, immediately, if not sooner, and move off from you K understanding of the Gospel. Sad thing is, you have God using double-jeopardy. People in hell? According to your teaching, their debt has been paid in full, just as our debt has been paid in full. Or, it is something else altogether, something you reject which Scripture teaches plainly. He saved his people from their sins, Matthew 1:21.

What do you suggest? Im talking about the "balance to be struck between both views" meaning arminians and calvinists I guess?

How do we reconcile these? I'd be very interested to know.

Bro get some antibiotics...coughing blood is not good migo

Thats the problem. There are tons of verses supporting calvinism, sure, but there is a ton supporting arminianism (or free will whatever you wanna call it) too. One of these would be the story of Saul in the bible. Another one would be the pharisees and lawyers "rejecting" God's counsel for them by not being baptized by John. etc.

So harmonizing would seem IDEAL here. I just havent found a good way to do it. Probably neveer will, the church has been working on it for quite a while

There is a balance to be struck...they both have went to seed on their view....
and regardless of the few lip flappers pushing the one view the following is a total contradiction....

God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth

God chose some for hell

I agree its a contradiction but what do you suggest to reconcile the views?

Thats the problem. There are tons of verses supporting calvinism, sure, but there is a ton supporting arminianism (or free will whatever you wanna call it) too. One of these would be the story of Saul in the bible. Another one would be the pharisees and lawyers "rejecting" God's counsel for them by not being baptized by John. etc.

So harmonizing would seem IDEAL here. I just havent found a good way to do it. Probably neveer will, the church has been working on it for quite a while

One teaches salvation by works, One does not

Again, they can not be resolved.

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

If a person is not regenerated, and not given the opportunity to have the ability to be saved, Then by not chosing them to heaven, they are in fact. Chosen or predestined to hell.

Unlike those who believe God elects those who through his foreknowledge, do the will of God (see and believe) according to their free will. Those who end up in hell were offered the same gift, they chose to reject it,, They destined themselves to hell.

Hi E-g, I welcome your thoughts on this subject so please if you can elevate my thinking so that I can have a correct view of predestination.

Are you saying for example that; if I am a Hmong tribesman of Norther Thailand and I have, "not been regenerated", nor given the opportunity to be saved, then by default God has predestined me to go to hell. If your answer is "yes" then I believe you are misplacing who is responsible for this mans demise and here is why, because we are all "without excuse."

E-g, are we not all guilty and punishable to hell fire and has not the God of the universe given every single human being enough light within to know Him. And if that is true then are not every human being responsible, why play the blame game, if you are on the path to hell's fire don't blame shift you are there without prejudice accept your responsibility.

Please let me now if you think I'm off track or misinformed.

Romans3:10-12
10) As it is written:
“There is no one righteous,
not even one.
11) There is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12) All have turned away;
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

Romans3:3-8
3) What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? 4) Certainly not! Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written:
“So that You may be justified in Your words,
and prevail in Your judgments.”
5) But if our unrighteousness highlights the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unjust to inflict His wrath on us? I am speaking in human terms. 6) Certainly not! In that case, how could God judge the world? 7) However, if my falsehood accentuates God’s truthfulness, to the increase of His glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner? 8) Why not say, as some slanderously claim that we say, “Let us do evil that good may result?” Their condemnation is deserved!

Romans1:20-23
20) For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21) For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22) Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23) and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

I have not insinuated you have said here my friend.

Okay not meaning you did insinuate what I was asking you to help me with is the predestination question but apparently that did not come out the way it was intended, carry on and never mind my confusion, thanks.

There is a balance to be struck...they both have went to seed on their view....
and regardless of the few lip flappers pushing the one view the following is a total contradiction....

God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth

God chose some for hell

I know you know this, and therefore I know you are just being nice. Because in the Parable of the GATES, only a FEW Find the Road to SALVATION; but in Mat. 7 it says MANY are on their way, to HELL. I PERSONALLY THINK THE PARABLE OF THE GATES IS ONLY REFERRING TO THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS:

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction [Mat. 10:28], and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life [John 10:28], and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Philippians 3:9-10 (NJB)
9 and be given a place in him, with the uprightness I have gained not from the Law, but through faith in Christ, an uprightness from God, based on faith,
10 that I may come to know Him and the power of his resurrection, and partake of his sufferings by being moulded to the pattern of his death,


That is BORN AGAIN, and in Verses 13 and 22, they are the ONES who call themselves Christians, but NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN.

Thats the problem. There are tons of verses supporting calvinism, sure,

but there is a ton supporting arminianism (or free will whatever you wanna call it) too.

One of these would be the story of Saul in the bible.

Another one would be the pharisees and lawyers "rejecting" God's counsel for them by not being baptized by John. etc.

So harmonizing would seem IDEAL here. I just havent found a good way to do it. Probably neveer will, the church has been working on it for quite a while

Lol..

There are two views of predestination.. The calvinist view and the other iew.

Yep.



Nope.



What about Saul? His rebellion and sinful ways? Perhaps he was enslaved to his sinful nature. For the record I don't believe that because the Spirit of God moved him to use him in any situation equates to eternal salvation. Others were used in God's secondary causes that were enemies of God.



Right, because that is what lost men do, refuse to come to God unless God grants it; John 6:44 &c. In fact they cannot come to him. Therefore they were not free in their wills, but bound. None are free unless Christ sets them free; John 8:36.

Unless God had done a work in the hearts of the above, they'd continue on in their sinful ways. Therefore the elephant in the room in your above scenario is "choice," yet, none in the flesh can please God, Romans 8:8 and none of those could have chosen themselves out of their scenario without God. Man does not choose himself into the kingdom.

Lastly, none of those have anything to do with eternal salvation.



There is no way to harmonize it as men are not saved via decisionalism they are saved by Grace and the fact that God elected them to eternal salvation.

Men don't elect themselves to this, which is obvious, because they are incapable of coming to God and Scripture denies men are saved by their determining will. I'd say that makes man not free in their will, but enslaved to their will, unless God...