Name It and Claim It

More on the atonement:

"Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17

"By this the love of God is revealed in us: that God has sent his one and only Son into the world so that we may live through him. 10 In this is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins." 1 John 4:9-10

"namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness." Romans 3:22-26

"By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" Hebrews 10:10

You are so confident that you are saved due to what is written in the Word, even if there is no physical proof of your salvation to yourself, as well as to others.

Yet, when it comes to healing, even though it is also written in the Word, you let your body convince you that you are not healed, and you thus go thru all these hula hoops to convince yourself that healing is not part of the atonement.

You see the point of my question now?

At seems you are spirituell blind, so you cant understand the truth.
As Angela gave you already the answer. You dont listen.
For others sake, if you still believe this false doctrine, dont temp others to do the same.

This is the point where I start pitying you for being so far from the gospel, that you cannot possibly know God.

Just give me one Scripture, in context, that says anyone needs PHYSICAL proof that they are saved.

Please start reading the Bible! You are so caught up on signs and wonders, you have lost your relationship with God. So sad!

All of a person’s ways seem right in his own opinion,
but the Lord evaluates the motives. Prov. 21:2

Pity you still fail to understand the point of my question, until you try to cast doubt on a fellow Christian salvation.

So you can give it, but you can't take it? Who was the one who has accused me of not being saved because I am not healed? (ie physical proof needed of salvation?)

God has healed me in so many ways, I could not begin to recite them all. I don't buy into your unbiblical views on anything.

When you post some Scriptures in context, and examine them hermeneutically, then we can talk again. As for now, I have yet to see anything but a few partial verses shoved into your text, without referencing where they come from.

And pity you, because you have bought into the Word Faith lie, without ever even examining it from a Biblical point of view! Oh right, personal inspiration is more important than the Word of God. Another lie you will never be able to support.

When you learn to read the Bible, and post Scriptures to back up your points, instead of these pathetic, hypocritical nonsense, we can talk. I'm out of here.


As for your Word of Faith, here is the only reference to it in the Bible! And what does it say? Believe and call upon the name of the Lord, AND YOU WILL BE SAVED! Nope, nothing about healing or wealth here!

"But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach), 9 because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him. 13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

I am amazed you can read my question as me accusing you of not being saved, because you cannot show physical proof, when I was trying to draw an analogy of trusting what Scripture says when it comes to salvation AND healing, instead of what your body is telling you.

Okay, let's stop here since your emotions are obviously getting the better of you. Cheers

Isaiah 62 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
New Jerusalem: A City Full of Goodness
62 I love Zion,
so I will continue to speak for her.
I love Jerusalem,
so I will not stop speaking.
I will speak until goodness[a] shines like a bright light,
until salvation burns bright like a flame.
2 Then all nations will see your goodness.
All kings will see your honor.
Then you will have a new name
that the Lord himself will give you.
3 You will be like a beautiful crown that the Lord holds up,
like a king’s crown in the hand of your God.
4 You will never again be called ‘The People God Left.’
Your land will never again be called ‘The Land God Destroyed.’
You will be called ‘The People God Loves.’
Your land will be called ‘God’s Bride,’
because the Lord loves you,
and your land will be his.
5 As a young man takes a bride and she belongs to him,
so your land will belong to your children.[c]
As a man is happy with his new wife,
so your God will be happy with you.
6 Jerusalem, I put guards on your walls.
They will not be silent.
They will keep praying day and night.
Guards, keep praying to the Lord.
Remind him of his promise.
Don’t ever stop praying.
7 Don’t give him any rest until he rebuilds Jerusalem
and makes it a place that everyone on earth will praise.
8 The Lord made a promise and guaranteed it by his own power.
And he will use that power to keep his promise.
The Lord said, “I promise that I will never again give your food to your enemies.
I promise that they will never again take the wine you make.
9 Whoever gathers the food will eat it and praise the Lord.
Whoever gathers the grape will drink the wine in the courtyards of my Temple.”
10 Come through the gates!
Clear the way for the people!
Prepare the road!
Move all the stones off the road!
Raise a flag as a sign for the nations!
11 Listen, the Lord is speaking
to all the faraway lands:
“Tell the people of Zion,
‘Look, your Savior is coming.
He is bringing your reward to you.
He is bringing it with him.’”
12 His people will be called “The Holy People,”
“The Saved People of the Lord.”
And you, Jerusalem, will be called “The City God Wants,”
“The City God Is With.”

Luke 9
57 They were all traveling along the road. Someone said to Jesus, “I will follow you anywhere you go.”

58 He answered, “The foxes have holes to live in. The birds have nests. But the Son of Man has no place where he can rest his head.”

59 Jesus said to another man, “Follow me!”

But the man said, “Lord, let me go and bury my father first.”

60 But Jesus said to him, “Let the people who are dead bury their own dead. You must go and tell about God’s kingdom.”

61 Another man said, “I will follow you, Lord, but first let me go and say goodbye to my family.”

62 Jesus said, “Anyone who begins to plow a field but looks back is not prepared for God’s kingdom.”

Mark 6:31Jesus and his followers were in a very busy place. There were so many people that he and his followers did not even have time to eat. He said to them, “Come with me. We will go to a quiet place to be alone. There we will get some rest.”


Matthew 8:20-23 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes to live in. The birds have nests. But the Son of Man has no place to rest.”

21 Another of Jesus’ followers said to him, “Lord, I will follow you too, but let me go and bury my father first.”

22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and let those who are dead bury their own dead.”

23 Jesus got into a boat, and his followers went with him.
Matthew 8:24 After the boat left the shore, a very bad storm began on the lake. The waves covered the boat. But Jesus was sleeping.

Mark 4:38 Jesus was inside the boat, sleeping with his head on a pillow. The followers went and woke him. They said, “Teacher, don’t you care about us? We are going to drown!”

After looking at both texts your interpretation does not hold true. Foxes and Birds have a place to live.
The later is not saying Jesus will not rest until his job is done. In fact, Jesus got into the boat right after saying that and sleep.

The Bible does not record everything Abraham did. And, Since he is dead, he is still the Father of Judaism.

That is the interpretation of every Rabbi I know too. You are reading your beliefs into the text.

Why do people leave WOF?

https://ucministries.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/on-the-word-of-faith-heresy-by-john-edwards/

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1..........0i71j0j0i22i30j33i22i29i30.I0AylRHdqkM

https://www.google.com/search?sourc......0....1..gws-wiz.....6..0i131j0.kM1YCNPDYZ8

The Faith Healers Updated Edition
by James Randi

James Randi, the celebrated magician, has written a damning indictment of the faith-healing practices of the leading televangelists and others who claim divine healing powers. Randi and his team of researchers attended scores of "miracle services" and often were pronounced "healed" of the nonexistent illnesses they claimed. They viewed first-hand the tragedies resulting from the wide-spread belief that faith healing can cure every conceivable disease. The ministries, they discovered, were rife with deception, chicanery, and often outright fraud.

Self-annointed ministers of God convince the gullible that they have been healed - and that they should pay for the service. The Faith Healers examines in depth the reasons for belief in faith healing and the catastrophic results for the victims of these hoaxes. Included in Randi's book are profiles of a highly profitable "psychic dentist", and the "Vatican-approved wizard."

Philippians 2:5-11 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
Let Christ be your example of humility
5-11 Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be. For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal. That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus “every knee shall bow”, whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, “every tongue shall confess” that Jesus Christ” is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Luke 8:43-48 English Standard Version (ESV)
43 And there was a woman who had had a discharge of blood for twelve years, and though she had spent all her living on physicians,[a] she could not be healed by anyone. 44 She came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment, and immediately her discharge of blood ceased. 45 And Jesus said, “Who was it that touched me?” When all denied it, Peter said, “Master, the crowds surround you and are pressing in on you!” 46 But Jesus said, “Someone touched me, for I perceive that power has gone out from me.” 47 And when the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling, and falling down before him declared in the presence of all the people why she had touched him, and how she had been immediately healed. 48 And he said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace.”

"
Global Word of Faith healer dies of cancer
Billy Joe Daugherty died of cancer at the age of 57. He was a teacher of prosperity, and told millions of people that perfect faith would result in perfect health.https://ivarfjeld.com/2009/11/25/global-word-of-faith-teacher-dies-of-cancer/


Divine Healing That Wasn't
(keep in mind most of these folks teach it is God’s will to heal you every time you are sick)

Doyle "Buddy" Harrison, Founder of Harrison House Books, son-in-law of Kenneth E. Hagin died Nov. 1998 of cancer. He was the founder of Faith Christian Fellowship, the WOF denomination. How could he have died of cancer? He was in the "faith movement" BEFORE Copeland and others . . .

0. E.W. Kenyon, Father of the Word of Faith Movement. One of the initial teachers of divine healing and it always being God's will to heal His children. Died in a coma brought on by a malignant tumor. Copeland teaches that Kenyon was sitting in a rocking chair, his daughter came into the room and Kenyon said "there's Jesus, good bye," and went to glory. This is a lie. He died from disease.

1. John Osteen, mega-church pastor in Houston - his wife, Dodie got liver cancer and through the mercy of God and medical attention survived. John Osteen is more sound today than when he initially began with the renewal movement, he is probably not as much a WOF teacher as he used to be.

2. Frederick K. Price, Word of Faith mega-church pastor in Los Angeles - his wife, Betty got cancer and was medically treated (chemo-therapy) and by the mercy of God was patched up. "If you need a crutch upon or something to help you get along, then praise God, hobble along until you get your faith moving to the point that you don’t need a crutch." How Faith Works pp. 92-92
I guess after all the years of sitting under "anointed" faith teaching by one of the movements leading faith teachers was not enough for Fred’s wife - she needed a doctor after all.

3. Jamie Buckingham, Discipleship Movement & charismatic author - died of cancer. He was under a medical doctors care.

4. Charles Capps, Word of Faith teacher, teaches power of our words to create reality - his wife got cancer and was medically treated.

I don’t deny the existence of disease. I deny the right of that disease to exist in this body, because I’m the Body of Christ." The Tongue p. 43.
I guess Chuck’s wife must have not spoken the right magic words to keep the cancer from her body.
5. John Wimber, Signs & Wonders Movement, author of "Power Healing," - just died from cancer. He too, was medically treated - no "power" healing for him, only chemo-therapy.
5a. Chris Wimber, GM of Vineyard Music died Feb 6, 1998 of melanoma cancer. Mahesh is supposed to have "healed" people of cancer and AIDS - yet there was no "healing" for Chris.

6. Mack Timberlake, Word of Faith pastor - suffering from throat cancer, getting medical attention.

7
9. Joyce Meyer, the fast rising Word of Faith female preacher. On Aug. 31, 1998 on her morning broadcast admitted that she had breast cancer and was MEDICALLY TREATED. I found her admission to be very interesting.

9. Prophet Keith Grayton, Prophetic Movement - died of the complications of AIDS He spoke at our Church in Detroit, and declared he was totally healed. He died a year or so later.

10. Kenneth Hagin, "father" of the Word of Faith Movement - sister died of cancer, (he wears glasses as does his son). Hagin’s great faith and special anointing could not keep her on the planet or his eyesight from growing dim.
10a. Hagin's sister died from cancer.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/sick.htm

Bad logic, attacking the person

Romans 3 English Standard Version (ESV)
God's Righteousness Upheld
3 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,

“That you may be justified in your words,
and prevail when you are judged.”

5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world? 7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? 8 And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

No One Is Righteous
9 What then? Are we Jews[a] any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being[c] will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

The Righteousness of God Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

You are teaching the false doctrine of mind science cults like Christian Science.

From a Christian Science Source:

"The silencing of the flesh, alias the five corporeal senses, is the great triumph of Christian Science. Only by silencing the senses can we obliterate their subjective states—disease, poverty, crime, discord. For these evil states of mind and similar ones are delusive effects of sense excitement, and they cannot appear to human thought if the physical senses are deprived of their mesmeric action. "
https://sentinel.christianscience.com/shared/view/19e5adlrgao

https://jsh.christianscience.com/co...ust&Title=&Author=&ICID=SEN+Off+Canvas+Search
https://jsh.christianscience.com/co...n=All&Type=-1&SearchDate=-1&SearchPageLimit=2

The body (flesh and bones) dances in the limelight entertaining uninspired mortal eyes, endlessly begging for immediate acceptance, unquestioned identity. But the physique-counterfeit— What a fake! When fleshly concepts call vulnerable, bleak forms man, shut out the lie instantly! then you will break through to a radiant glimpse of the true you (invisible to mortal sight) the spiritual you—untied to fragile matter forms— man reflecting only Spirit's infinity!
https://sentinel.christianscience.com/issues/1978/6/80-24/extinguish-the-counterfeit

The healing distinction between spiritual and material sense
with Ken Girard and Elise Moore

That is exactly how I read your post too. Anyone else who read it that way please say so.

Remember communication online lacks all the cues.