Is Heaven Only for the Righteous?

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MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#41
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
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#41
7seasrekeyed said:
Jesus was more than happy to walk away. He despised the shame of the cross

but you and Jimmy want to cling so hard you get splinters

apparently you have heard or possibly do not believe, that the work on the cross is finished

misinterpreting passages to suit Jimmy's angst and fear over his own unchristian behavior is cultish

fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

Jesus endured the cross for US . that is the actual message
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“2 Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our Faith (Jesus will carry us through till the end, for this is what the word “Finisher” means, providing we keep our eyes on Him and what He did at the Cross; He is the Source, while the Cross is the means); Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame (but the Cross was necessary, that is if man was to be redeemed), and is set down at the Right Hand of the Throne of God. (Him being “set down” refers to His Work at the Cross being a “Finished Work,” and the fact that He is set down at the “Throne of God” means God has fully accepted His Sacrifice.)”

JSM
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#42
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#42
7seasrekeyed said:
heaven is reserved for those who are righteous in Christ Jesus

no one else
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“5 But to him who works not (doesn’t trust in works for Salvation or Righteousness), but believes on Him Who Justifies the ungodly (through Christ and the Cross), his faith is counted for Righteousness (God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work).” Romans 4:5

JSM
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#43
#43
MessageOfTheCross said:
“2 Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our Faith (Jesus will carry us through till the end, for this is what the word “Finisher” means, providing we keep our eyes on Him and what He did at the Cross; He is the Source, while the Cross is the means); Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame (but the Cross was necessary, that is if man was to be redeemed), and is set down at the Right Hand of the Throne of God. (Him being “set down” refers to His Work at the Cross being a “Finished Work,” and the fact that He is set down at the “Throne of God” means God has fully accepted His Sacrifice.)”

JSM
Click to expand...

but you cannot rewrite what scripture states. Jesus despised the shame

however Jimmy wants to keep carrying the cross so let him

and you can too

Jesus said it's finished

that is good enough for anyone who believes in Him

did someone say the cross was not necessary?

no they did not
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#44
#44
MessageOfTheCross said:
“5 But to him who works not (doesn’t trust in works for Salvation or Righteousness), but believes on Him Who Justifies the ungodly (through Christ and the Cross), his faith is counted for Righteousness (God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work).” Romans 4:5

JSM
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heaven is reserved for those who are righteous in Christ Jesus

no one else
 
Bingo

Bingo

Well-known member
#45
Feb 9, 2019
8,394
4,423
113
#45
"The absence of the Holy Spirit. For alone in the 'darkness' of the world, shall
be many that are 'poor' in Spirit...those that struggle with this...be as 'children'...
learn anew, for there will be a time, when time is no more,"
'Praise God'
 

Attachments

MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#46
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#46
7seasrekeyed said:
but you cannot rewrite what scripture states. Jesus despised the shame

however Jimmy wants to keep carrying the cross so let him

and you can too

Jesus said it's finished

that is good enough for anyone who believes in Him

did someone say the cross was not necessary?

no they did not
Click to expand...
“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).” Luke 14:27

JSM
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#47
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#47
Heaven is for the saints, the redeemed.

The question is how is our transformation completed between coming to faith and meeting Christ.
Paul was concerned that we could fall short, and have held our faith in vain.

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:5

"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
1 Cor 15:55-58

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#48
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,477
113
#48
newton3003 said:
Jesus, in some of his Beatitudes in Matthew 5 makes direct and indirect inferences that the righteous will see God. This is expressed in various ways in the following passages:

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely hon my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

But then, there is this passage which doesn’t mention righteousness as a way to God:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

The “spirit” here can refer to Isaiah 61:1-2 which says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be,
declares the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look: HE WHO IS HUMBLE AND CONTRITE IN SPIRIT AND TREMBLES AT MY WORD.”

If being “poor in spirit” would mean being lacking in the Spirit of God or any knowledge thereof, it would seem that anyone who does not have that spirit in them can occupy the Kingdom of Heaven. There may not be many people out there at this point, though, who are truly ignorant of anything to do with God. What of those who know something about God, but through lack of means find it hard to walk a straight path?

Who would be poor in spirit? Would it be someone who holds up a convenience store to get money to feed their family? Would it be someone who robs a bank to pay for their spouse’s medical bills that they can’t afford? Would it be someone who has dementia and calls Jesus every horrible name they can think of?

Isaiah 6:5 says, “And I said: ‘Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!’”

Psalm 40:17 says, “As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!”

Would these passages refer to a poor and needy person who robs someone else? We are all accountable for our own sins, but if a person is convinced they’re overwhelmed would that make them poor in spirit? If a person lacks reasoning facilities, would that make them poor in spirit?
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The absolute worst thing a poor and needy Christian person who robbed someone else could do would be to justify their act of theft in their own mind, and therefore reject the Atonement of the LORD Jesus to cover that sin...

We need to have ZERO resistance to the Word of God..
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#49
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
113
#49
newton3003 said:
Jesus, in some of his Beatitudes in Matthew 5 makes direct and indirect inferences that the righteous will see God. This is expressed in various ways in the following passages:

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely hon my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

But then, there is this passage which doesn’t mention righteousness as a way to God:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

The “spirit” here can refer to Isaiah 61:1-2 which says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be,
declares the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look: HE WHO IS HUMBLE AND CONTRITE IN SPIRIT AND TREMBLES AT MY WORD.”

If being “poor in spirit” would mean being lacking in the Spirit of God or any knowledge thereof, it would seem that anyone who does not have that spirit in them can occupy the Kingdom of Heaven. There may not be many people out there at this point, though, who are truly ignorant of anything to do with God. What of those who know something about God, but through lack of means find it hard to walk a straight path?

Who would be poor in spirit? Would it be someone who holds up a convenience store to get money to feed their family? Would it be someone who robs a bank to pay for their spouse’s medical bills that they can’t afford? Would it be someone who has dementia and calls Jesus every horrible name they can think of?

Isaiah 6:5 says, “And I said: ‘Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!’”

Psalm 40:17 says, “As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!”

Would these passages refer to a poor and needy person who robs someone else? We are all accountable for our own sins, but if a person is convinced they’re overwhelmed would that make them poor in spirit? If a person lacks reasoning facilities, would that make them poor in spirit?
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The children of Israel were used to doing things under law which was about purifying the outward man/flesh,when JESUS was on earth HE was Introducing the law of GOD which Is about the Spirit.

GOD looks at a person’s heart and knows If their motive Is acceptable In truth according to HIS perfect standard of righteousness and of course man can not measure up to GODs perfect standards In his own strength.

Who would be poor in spirit?
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When the people who were use to living according to the flesh,to them anything said to be poor would be talking about something they could best understood with their five sense knowledge meaning when they thought poor It meant IE I don’t have the money to get what I want and not be poor.

JESUS would stand up for read and tell them that HE was declaring the good news from GOD ALMIGHTY who sent HIM and for those who were bound to set them free.

JESUS ,was talking about the spiritual when man was relating the spiritual by expressing It to be physical.

John 6:63
King James Version


John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#50
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#50
Troubled65 said:
Being "poor in spirit" means to be or have a heart of brokenness. Read Psalm 51:17. It's being among the forgiven much crowd. The woman who washed our Lord Jesus's feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair is a picture of the poor in spirit. Hope this helps.☺
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I think this one also shows us a picture of what poor in spirit is;

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

My favorite bible version is the KJV. But here is the New Berkeley Modern English version of Matthew 5:3 which I think is best.

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are they who know their spiritual poverty, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#51
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#51
newton3003 said:
Jesus, in some of his Beatitudes in Matthew 5 makes direct and indirect inferences that the righteous will see God. This is expressed in various ways in the following passages:

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely hon my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

But then, there is this passage which doesn’t mention righteousness as a way to God:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

The “spirit” here can refer to Isaiah 61:1-2 which says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be,
declares the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look: HE WHO IS HUMBLE AND CONTRITE IN SPIRIT AND TREMBLES AT MY WORD.”

If being “poor in spirit” would mean being lacking in the Spirit of God or any knowledge thereof, it would seem that anyone who does not have that spirit in them can occupy the Kingdom of Heaven. There may not be many people out there at this point, though, who are truly ignorant of anything to do with God. What of those who know something about God, but through lack of means find it hard to walk a straight path?

Who would be poor in spirit? Would it be someone who holds up a convenience store to get money to feed their family? Would it be someone who robs a bank to pay for their spouse’s medical bills that they can’t afford? Would it be someone who has dementia and calls Jesus every horrible name they can think of?

Isaiah 6:5 says, “And I said: ‘Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!’”

Psalm 40:17 says, “As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!”

Would these passages refer to a poor and needy person who robs someone else? We are all accountable for our own sins, but if a person is convinced they’re overwhelmed would that make them poor in spirit? If a person lacks reasoning facilities, would that make them poor in spirit?
Click to expand...
Save mean save from condemnation. Save from slavery of sin.

Save from what?
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#52
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
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#52
Noose said:
Rev 3:17You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and neednothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

So, what you are saying is that Jesus wants people to buy earthly wealth from Him?
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IMO,this scripture WOULD be talking about physical wealth because JESUS was fully man but also fully GOD and we know GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship HIM In spirit and In truth and GOD Is rich In SPIRIT.

BUT I think In that scripture/verse I believe JESUS was talking about growing wealthy as In I have picked up knowledge growing up as fully man part of HIS self and seeing first hand physically how In person as HE walked on earth how It’s the SPIRIT that gives life not the flesh.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#53
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#53
seed_time_harvest said:
IMO,this scripture WOULD be talking about physical wealth because JESUS was fully man but also fully GOD and we know GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship HIM In spirit and In truth and GOD Is rich In SPIRIT.

BUT I think In that scripture/verse I believe JESUS was talking about growing wealthy as In I have picked up knowledge growing up as fully man part of HIS self and seeing first hand physically how In person as HE walked on earth how It’s the SPIRIT that gives life not the flesh.
Click to expand...
IMO, i don't think Jesus wants us to buy "..gold refined by fire ...., white garments .... and salve ..." from Him, all these only represent a spiritual realities.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#54
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
113
#54
Grandpa said:
I think this one also shows us a picture of what poor in spirit is;

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

My favorite bible version is the KJV. But here is the New Berkeley Modern English version of Matthew 5:3 which I think is best.

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are they who know their spiritual poverty, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Click to expand...
Paul told them that judge by the law were doing the same things,the Pharisee would put on an outward demonstration of obedience to the law but be full of dead men’s bones on the Inside but GOD judges the heart so then the Pharisee would be thinking that as long as I didn’t do wrong that anyone might see me physically then I’m doing well.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#55
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
113
#55
Noose said:
IMO, i don't think Jesus wants us to buy "..gold refined by fire ...., white garments .... and salve ..." from Him, all these only represent a spiritual realities.
Click to expand...
Just remember GOD looks at the heart/motives,Its ok to buy Gold,the money from the Gold could help get the WORD of GOD to many people.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#56
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
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#56
Noose said:
Self righteous is spiritual richness.
Good example; the rich young man who called Jesus good teacher.
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Self-righteousness =spiritually rich?
It’s not possible for a man to be self righteous perfectly In his own strength when It comes to keeping the law of GOD because of the weakness of his flesh he will come short of the glory of GOD.

GOD looks at the heart,So then only those who are truly sincerely repentant can come to GOD and then GOD by grace through faith creates that person’s spirit perfect.GODs perfect standard of righteousness Is perfection.

So then a person trying to relate with GOD with just their five sense knowledge will come short of the glory of GOD.

They are spiritually blind at that point they only see according to their five sense knowledge.
JESUS bridged the gap between man and GOD and made a way for man to relate to GOD by fulfilling as a man GODs perfect standard of righteousness and satisfied the demand of the law to a GOD who loves righteousness taking back the power that adam the man gave over to satin,

JESUS ushered In a new covenant with HIS blood sacrifice that GOD accepted and now the Issue Is now faith.The Issue Is not fulfilling the law anymore.

Paul wrote,I delight In the law of GOD after the Inward man but I see another law,warring against the law of my mind and bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#57
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#57
newton3003 said:
Jesus, in some of his Beatitudes in Matthew 5 makes direct and indirect inferences that the righteous will see God. This is expressed in various ways in the following passages:

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely hon my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

But then, there is this passage which doesn’t mention righteousness as a way to God:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

The “spirit” here can refer to Isaiah 61:1-2 which says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me,
because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound. All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be,
declares the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look: HE WHO IS HUMBLE AND CONTRITE IN SPIRIT AND TREMBLES AT MY WORD.”

If being “poor in spirit” would mean being lacking in the Spirit of God or any knowledge thereof, it would seem that anyone who does not have that spirit in them can occupy the Kingdom of Heaven. There may not be many people out there at this point, though, who are truly ignorant of anything to do with God. What of those who know something about God, but through lack of means find it hard to walk a straight path?

Who would be poor in spirit? Would it be someone who holds up a convenience store to get money to feed their family? Would it be someone who robs a bank to pay for their spouse’s medical bills that they can’t afford? Would it be someone who has dementia and calls Jesus every horrible name they can think of?

Isaiah 6:5 says, “And I said: ‘Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!’”

Psalm 40:17 says, “As for me, I am poor and needy, but the Lord takes thought for me. You are my help and my deliverer; do not delay, O my God!”

Would these passages refer to a poor and needy person who robs someone else? We are all accountable for our own sins, but if a person is convinced they’re overwhelmed would that make them poor in spirit? If a person lacks reasoning facilities, would that make them poor in spirit?
Click to expand...

Heaven is for people who abide in Him.

If a branch not bear fruit, it will be burn or not go to heaven

John 15
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


I am not sure if bear fruit mean righteous but for sure this verse say heaven is for the fruit bearer
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#58
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#58
Jackson123 said:
Heaven is for people who abide in Him.

If a branch not bear fruit, it will be burn or not go to heaven

John 15
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


I am not sure if bear fruit mean righteous but for sure this verse say heaven is for the fruit bearer
Click to expand...
I think they are linked together, fruit and righteousness...

Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

James 3:17-18
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#59
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#59
MessageOfTheCross said:
“2 Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our Faith (Jesus will carry us through till the end, for this is what the word “Finisher” means, providing we keep our eyes on Him and what He did at the Cross; He is the Source, while the Cross is the means); Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the Cross, despising the shame (but the Cross was necessary, that is if man was to be redeemed), and is set down at the Right Hand of the Throne of God. (Him being “set down” refers to His Work at the Cross being a “Finished Work,” and the fact that He is set down at the “Throne of God” means God has fully accepted His Sacrifice.)”

JSM
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 15:14-17
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.


The Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our Faith because of the Resurrection not because of the Cross.

The Resurrection is the Power of God.

Christ is no longer on the Cross. He is Risen.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#60
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#60
Is Heaven Only for the Righteous?

AxeElf said:
To answer the original question, heaven is for those who were created for salvation--whose names were written into the Book of Life at the foundation of the world. No more, no less.
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We don't have to be absolutely righteous to be saved, provided we remain within reasonable limits of righteousness and holiness.

I COR 6:9-11

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men a10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 
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