Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

God bless you, I am glad we have got it straight.

I think you have also miss-understood the intention.

Paul says this

11 Aim for perfection
2 cor 13

There is a large difference between growing and walking in Christ
and being dead and abiding in sin.

As some would say there are only two directions in life, either you are growing
or you are going backwards.

What you express and others likewise is the most antagonism I have come across
in regard to obeying Christ and some are in total rebellion against His love and commands.

So I simply cannot believe they are anything but lost. And I just rejoice in Christ,
I am only called to share and witness, I can do no other, Amen. God bless you

it is really not wise to take one snip of one letter and build a entire theology around it. best to use the whole Bible, and the DEFINITIONS of the words It is written with to build theology. if you are about truth and honesty.

and, we have not nor will we straighten anything out unless and until you admit the truth that the only thing it takes to save a person is faith and trust and Jesus. no works, no good deeds, no lack of sin. just believe.

then when one truly does believe , they will began to lead a more righteous life, walking like Him more and more.

the junk you and your church club teach that one does not get saved until sanctification fully occurs is lie, a huge one that spits in the face of Jesus, saying that what He did was not enough, that He is not Lord and Savior, He is just Lord, and it is up to us to save ourself.

it is really not wise to take one snip of one letter and build a entire theology around it. best to use the whole Bible, and the DEFINITIONS of the words It is written with to build theology. if you are about truth and honesty.

and, we have not nor will we straighten anything out unless and until you admit the truth that the only thing it takes to save a person is faith and trust and Jesus. no works, no good deeds, no lack of sin. just believe.

then when one truly does believe , they will began to lead a more righteous life, walking like Him more and more.

the junk you and your church club teach that one does not get saved until sanctification fully occurs is lie, a huge one that spits in the face of Jesus, saying that what He did was not enough, that He is not Lord and Savior, He is just Lord, and it is up to us to save ourself.

it is really not wise to take one snip of one letter and build a entire theology around it. best to use the whole Bible, and the DEFINITIONS of the words It is written with to build theology. if you are about truth and honesty.

and, we have not nor will we straighten anything out unless and until you admit the truth that the only thing it takes to save a person is faith and trust and Jesus. no works, no good deeds, no lack of sin. just believe.

then when one truly does believe , they will began to lead a more righteous life, walking like Him more and more.

the junk you and your church club teach that one does not get saved until sanctification fully occurs is lie, a huge one that spits in the face of Jesus, saying that what He did was not enough, that He is not Lord and Savior, He is just Lord, and it is up to us to save ourself.

Okay, this example of yours makes it clear the difference in what both of us believe in.

To me, the only sin that will result in hell, is the sin of rejecting Jesus as your divine substitute. That is what I meant when I said, salvation is by faith in Jesus's death burial and resurrection alone.

But after you put your faith in the DBR, will you still drink and if you continue to do so, will that result in you losing your salvation? By what I am believing above, my answer is no. But for you, its yes, unless the person continues to repent of his drinking and continue to seek Jesus's forgiveness, he may lose his salvation as a result of his continued alcoholism.

I believe you are using 1 John 1:9 and interpreting that to support this belief of yours. For me, I believe 1 John 1:9 is not for the believer but the unbeliever.

The way out of alcoholism for me is not, "try your best and let Jesus do the rest". I would suggest that the alcoholic, everything he drinks, he needs to declare out loud "I am the righteousness of God in Christ!" That is the way to break out of alcoholism, as well as any other sins he may be struggling with.

In 1 John it speaks to "we", and it is written by a believer.

"a huge one that spits in the face of Jesus"

There is not much to say after you go this far. To obey Jesus is to love Him.
I know how sin distorts the heart and makes things that are sinful seem inevitable,
but to give up our lives for Him is our calling and our path.

37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
Matt 10

How were the levites purified as Holy
1. Washed
To purify them, do this: Sprinkle the water of cleansing on them; then have them shave their whole bodies and wash their clothes, and so purify themselves.
Numbers 8:7
2. Sacrifices for sin and praise
Wave offering and a sin offering.
So to be holy we are to be washed through the waters of baptism and anointing of the Holy Spirit and the word making us pure.
Our sins are purified through faith in the cross, and the sprinkling of the blood on our souls and consciences.

For many believers this is so removed from everyday life, they are not prepared to even accept God could ever
regard themselves as living a "Holy life", pure and blameless.

This is what the Lord is saying we are called to do and understand. Only if one has the faith to believe the word of God could
this be fulfilled in ones life. First has to come faith, openness and acceptance of Christ and the cross.
Cleansing and purification are done by bringing each area of defilement to the Lord and working through it.
One can be cleansed, but if one defiles this cleansing straight away, there is no value in such a thing.
Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.
2 Tim 8-9

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thessalonians 4:7

Just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:15-16

Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children
and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Ephesians 5:1-5

Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Tim 2:22

8 So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time
2 Timothy 1:8-9

In the two instances where we see the word “sins” in 1 John 1:9, it is the Greek noun hamartia that is used. According to well-known Bible scholar William Vine, hamartia (“a missing of the mark”) indicates “a principle or source of action, or an inward element producing acts . . . a governing principle or power.”3 In other words, it refers to the sin principle, or our sinful state on account of Adam’s sin. By using the noun form of this word, John was clearly not referring to our committing of individual acts of sin, or he would have used the verb form, hamartano.

In the light of this, can you see how 1 John 1:9 is not talking about confessing our sins every time we sin in thought or in deed? John was speaking of the need to acknowledge and confess to God that we are sinners because of Adam’s sin, as well as to receive the total forgiveness for all our sins through Jesus’ finished work. How often do we need to do this? Only once.

That’s why 1 John 1:9 is primarily a salvation verse, one that encourages the sinner to acknowledge and confess his sinful state or “sinnerhood,” get born again by faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and have his sinful state through Adam replaced with a new righteous state through Christ. The heretical Gnostic doctrine did not subscribe to a belief in man’s sinful state. John was addressing this heresy directly in the first chapter of 1 John and encouraging the Gnostics to confess their sinful state and receive the Lord’s complete forgiveness and total cleansing from all their unrighteousness through His finished work at the cross.

Now, what does the apostle John say then, about our committing of sins after we’ve become believers? Just two verses later in the second chapter of 1 John, John answers this question as he begins his address to believers: “My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

This time, the words “sin” and “sins” are the Greek verb hamartano. John is now referring to believers’ committing of sins—their sinful thoughts and deeds. What does John say regarding this? He reminds us that when we fail as believers, we have an Advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ.

Because of our Lord Jesus and what He has accomplished at the cross, we have forgiveness and we still stand righteous before God even when we’ve missed it. As the apostle Paul reminded the Corinthian believers who had failed that they were still the temple of the Holy Spirit, John reminds us of who we are in Christ and who we have representing us at God’s right hand.

Can you see that the Bible’s answer to overcoming sin is always to remind believers of their righteous identity in Christ? This is not to encourage us to sin but to encourage us to look to our Lord Jesus, to see our sins punished at the cross and to live victoriously and gloriously for Him. That is what true repentance is all about—turning to the cross and returning to His grace! When you fail today, know that you can talk to God honestly about your failing, but do it with a revelation of the cross of our Lord Jesus. See your sins punished in His body and receive afresh His forgiveness and unmerited favor to reign over your sins.

I don't see much difference in our understanding of what God tells us. We believe God pays for our sin and they are over and done with, you believe that after that we live as Christ leads us and so do I. The only thing different is this one time forgiveness only. According to your belief I understand you to say you think God has us living with Hitler in heaven, he said he was only obeying Luther when he ordered human life taken. According to how I think God acts, God protects you and I from people who would murder.

Well lets see, I have not been to a baptist church in close to 20 years. And Alot of the beliefs I got from that church I no longer follow

I wish for once people would stop trying to put people in these excel spreadsheets, where they bucn a group of people together (baptist/Catholic/Lutheran/Pentecostle) and underneath is all the characteristics they believe, next to each characteristic is the mark that you agree with them, or the indoctrinated response you would give to that belief system

Then, maybe then, We could have actual conversation between each other. Because then you would be listening to what the other person said, THEN after truly understanding what they believe, respond in kind, In fact, you might even learn something. As I did when I stopped listening to my baptist appologetics of what we believe compared to what others believed, and started listening to THEM, and figured out alot of what I taught I no longer agree with.

Are you open to that? Or are you going to show your a follower of men, listening to what MEN claim I believe, whether those men are right or not? Of course, if you are not open to it, its ok, You have alot of company here of people who refuse to do this either so we have heated arguments based on half truths or false truths which will NEVER be resolved because people think they know and are too proud to even admit they MAY have been taught wrong.

PS, I have many catholic friends who are part of my local body, and they have NOTHING common with catholics. Considering aven many protestant churches follow many catholic teachings and ceremonies and beliefs, it does not surprise me however.

As I have said many times, If I was going to depend on my good deeds to be the root of my salvation, I would be catholic. They have the MOST ways, the MOST works. The MOST means of penance and if all else fails. They even have a group who believe in purgatory. So if I do not live up to make it while living, I can still pay for my sin in death. I love it when I hear legalistic churches fight with catholics. They are no better, they just have LESS obligations (works) to perform.



What are you doing at romans 6 for? We are not talking about romans 6 we are talking about the people in 1 corinthians, You know. The people Paul called BABES in christ, who were struggling with sexual sin, Who he even said such were some of you BUT you were washed, YOU WERE justified. You WERE sanctified. In Jesus name.

Did you IGNORE the post I made from John who said a child born of God can NOT live in sin?

Your focused on sin man, Your no better than the jews focusing on law. How well did they help them overcome sin? We see from Jesus rebuke it did not help them at all. In fact it hurt them, Because as peter said, it was a burden they COULD NOT BEAR, and instead of helping them. It made them self righteous. And when Christ came, they rejected him and crucified him.

You wan to break sin? Do as jesus said, LOVE other, Do as paul said SEEK after the THINGS of the spirit. We stop sin by the power of God (who is at WORK in us to WILL and DO his pleasure (It is his power that energizes us to DESIRE to do his will and the POWER to do it.

You think you going around judging people and making yourself appear righteus is going to help you stop your sin issus? You are in trouble

I said it once, I will say it again, Stop excusing your own sin by watering down the law to a place you can keep it and start to look to the cross. Become that tax collector. Become that person who lives his life every day understanding it if were not for christ you would be doomed where you stand because you have FAILED to reach his standard.

Which keeps you RUNNING the race LOOKING forward, and prevents you from being content thinking you made it! And prevents you from judging others when you got a might big log in your own eye. .

God bless you, I am glad we have got it straight.

I think you have also miss-understood the intention.

Paul says this

11 Aim for perfection
2 cor 13

There is a large difference between growing and walking in Christ
and being dead and abiding in sin.

As some would say there are only two directions in life, either you are growing
or you are going backwards.

What you express and others likewise is the most antagonism I have come across
in regard to obeying Christ and some are in total rebellion against His love and commands.

So I simply cannot believe they are anything but lost. And I just rejoice in Christ,
I am only called to share and witness, I can do no other, Amen. God bless you

I don't see much difference in our understanding of what God tells us. We believe God pays for our sin and they are over and done with, you believe that after that we live as Christ leads us and so do I. The only thing different is this one time forgiveness only. According to your belief I understand you to say you think God has us living with Hitler in heaven, he said he was only obeying Luther when he ordered human life taken. According to how I think God acts, God protects you and I from people who would murder.

Yea bro very sad. Alot of lost sheep. If we can even say they are sheep. Only God knows their hearts. But Jesus said from the wickedness of ones heart does man speak and that defiles the man. How deep is their darkness.

So if this thread is any proof in the pudding. Its sad. But I guess these are the last days. Many will come in the name of Jesus and deceive many. And they will be the ones saying Lord Lord.. He never knew them.

Does this hurt you too? Because im not happy that they are that mislead. Its insanity to me. Disappointing. God bless them. They know who they are. Especially the demonic one with the evil spirit. Not sure if you caught on to him. Im not saying no name. He knows.

I am sad as well, but there appears little movement or conviction.
If you live with sin, or the idea of ocd sin, and do not desire to walk like Jesus, what hope is there.

as usual, you completely mis-represent what others say.
I do NOT speak against obeying Christ. we are to obey .
but, obedience does NOT produce, earn. or maintain salvation.
belief in Christ produces salvation .
you want Jesus to be your Lord, but you want to be your own Savior by behaving your way into the Kingdom.
you believe your way into the Kingdom. " whosoever BELIEVES.....

EG thanks for the time you spent on your master spiel. But I think you missed the intended target. The person you are speaking to.

For one I never judged anyone. If telling you that you are not a leader is judging you, or telling you that your beliefs are warped im guilty as charged. My opinion thats not judging. So not sure why you felt to claim Im judging.

Second Ive never claimed to be righteous. Somehow you get the notion that I am? Not sure where or how. But I have the Holy Spirit so I cant assume that it wont show. If thats what you are describing, otherwise your just looking to throw insults because you feel offended.

Third bro I could care less about your background or what "men" you think im categorizing you with, but my opinions about YOU are based on YOU. I read your threads on many forums. You are very outspoken and its still posted online to see. So your views contradict themselves in many forums. Not sure if you really believe half the stuff you say or if its just regurgitated.

The only bunch I place you with is with "under grace" and "d-con". Everytime you have a disagreement with me Under grace sticks his nose where it dont shine. And D-con must have been flagged down by you to show some moral support. Your ego needs it.

Your view on sin and the lack therof concern for sin is troubling. And Ive heard your master spiel and it doesnt add up. But if it works for you keep it. Not sure how that will hold up with the Father. If you are living sanctified and justified good for you. But what you promote is backwards. And doesnt hold up.

Im not sure where you come up with your view on my beliefs comes from because Im not a jew. And Im not a pharasee. I dont use the law to paint myself anything. I only promote keeping Gods commands. Just like Jesus taught. Jesus is my teacher I do not follow man. And I do not follow you nor endorse any of your foolish misconceptions. So put me on ignore because theres no point talking.

I will do what Im supposed to and dust my feet. Go your way, go in peace. God bless you and may God open the scales from your eyes and give you a heart of flesh. Break the prideful and stubborn heart that you now posess. If that offends you forgive me bro. This is online, you dont even know me. And I dont know you. All the best.

There is no evidence that Adolf Hitler accepted Jesus before he committed suicide, but if he did, yes, he would definitely be saved. That is why the Gospel of Grace is good news, an "almost too good to be true news".

At the end of the day, you can live your Christian life trying to remember your sins and to confess them daily using 1 John 1:9, or you can believe that God always sees you as righteous because of what Jesus has done. Either way, you will still be saved, the difference is just the life you live on Earth.

A good analogy would be the Jews in Egypt when the angel of death went around killing the first born. Ultimately, as long as the blood of the lamb is on their doorposts, they are protected. Of course, you can imagine there will be some Jewish households who are worried and try to "help out" the blood, by confessing their sins, and making sure they praise God non stop. Other households would just rejoice and celebrate and enjoy their time.

Likewise for all of us Christians here who have different beliefs about whether you need to confess sins regularly.

Yea bro very sad. Alot of lost sheep. If we can even say they are sheep. Only God knows their hearts. But Jesus said from the wickedness of ones heart does man speak and that defiles the man. How deep is their darkness.

So if this thread is any proof in the pudding. Its sad. But I guess these are the last days. Many will come in the name of Jesus and deceive many. And they will be the ones saying Lord Lord.. He never knew them.

Does this hurt you too? Because im not happy that they are that mislead. Its insanity to me. Disappointing. God bless them. They know who they are. Especially the demonic one with the evil spirit. Not sure if you caught on to him. Im not saying no name. He knows.