Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#321
#321
John146 said:
And should I add placed in Scripture after Paul’s epistles because as human history plays out, James will be instrumental to the Jews in the tribulation. Paul describes the rapture of the church and Hebrews and James will point the Jews back to their Messiah as His day is literally at hand.
Click to expand...
@Melach , For your reference, this person believes the jews were saved by law pre church age, and when we get back to the tribulation, they will again be saved by law..that is what this post is referencing
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#322
#322
John146 said:
Eternal salvation is not the issue, but enduring through the end of the tribulation where it will absolutely take faith and works. There is obviously part of James’ audience that had not received the word and their souls were not saved yet.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Click to expand...
Yes, Eternal salvation is the issue

What if a person CLAIMS to have faith (he never said they HAD faith, he said they CLAIMED to have it

Can that particular faith save them? (Eternally speaking)

He was telling the people he wrote to to test their faith. To see if it was real living faith or a mere belief (even domons believe)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#323
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#323
eternally-gratefull said:
One does not have to see this to interpret james 2. Just read it literally as written.
Click to expand...
Literally to the twelve tribes of Israel...don’t interpret this to be anything else than the nation of Israel as a whole. It is not a called out group of that nation, aka Christian Jews.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#324
#324
John146 said:
Gospel of the circumcision vs the gospel of the uncircumcision...there is a difference, hence the two terms.
Click to expand...
Adam was saved by faith. Noah was saved by Faith, Abraham was saved by Faith David was saved by faith, All the prophets were save by Faith, Ninivah was saved by faith, All the OT saints were saved by faith, All the disciples were saved by faith, All the NT churches were saved by faith.

There are not two gospels
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#325
#325
John146 said:
Literally to the twelve tribes of Israel...don’t interpret this to be anything else than the nation of Israel as a whole. It is not a called out group of that nation, aka Christian Jews.
Click to expand...
Yet the words also are applicable to us.. We need to do everything James write to them, because we struggle with the same issues.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#326
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#326
eternally-gratefull said:
@Melach , For your reference, this person believes the jews were saved by law pre church age, and when we get back to the tribulation, they will again be saved by law..that is what this post is referencing
Click to expand...
No one is saved but by the blood of Jesus. They weren’t saved. Do you believe Abraham’s bosom is salvation? Not me, but being with the Lord in heaven.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#328
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#328
eternally-gratefull said:
Adam was saved by faith. Noah was saved by Faith, Abraham was saved by Faith David was saved by faith, All the prophets were save by Faith, Ninivah was saved by faith, All the OT saints were saved by faith, All the disciples were saved by faith, All the NT churches were saved by faith.

There are not two gospels
Click to expand...
Faith in what or who? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#329
#329
John146 said:
No one is saved but by the blood of Jesus. They weren’t saved. Do you believe Abraham’s bosom is salvation? Not me, but being with the Lord in heaven.
Click to expand...
Yep..

And how did the blood apply to themThey believed in faith looking forward

Not by works. The law did not save them, and it will nto save them in the tribulation period

The law was given to lead them to christ, to show them they ARE GUILTY!

The problem with the jew is they thought that by the law they were saved, its wHY they crucified christ.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#330
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#330
eternally-gratefull said:
Yet the words also are applicable to us.. We need to do everything James write to them, because we struggle with the same issues.
Click to expand...
All Scripture has personal application but James is doctrine to the Jews only. There are things in James we can’t take literally to us.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#331
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#331
eternally-gratefull said:
Yep..

And how did the blood apply to themThey believed in faith looking forward

Not by works. The law did not save them, and it will nto save them in the tribulation period

The law was given to lead them to christ, to show them they ARE GUILTY!

The problem with the jew is they thought that by the law they were saved, its wHY they crucified christ.
Click to expand...
The blood was applied because they obeyed the word of God whatever it was that God gave them. No one was looking forward to the cross. No one.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#332
#332
John146 said:
Where does it say this? Is this added interpretation?
Click to expand...
CAN THAT FAITH SAVE HIM

This alone shows that james, who just spend a whole chapter talking to them about things they need to be doing, and asking them to see if they were just hearers only. And not doers. And all the rest

Sorry dude, your wrong, period
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#333
#333
John146 said:
Faith in what or who? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ?
Click to expand...
Faith that GOD would save them/

Where they saved by works? Lets get this out in the open dude. Were those people saved by works?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#334
#334
John146 said:
All Scripture has personal application but James is doctrine to the Jews only. There are things in James we can’t take literally to us.
Click to expand...
Oh

So you can not be a hearer only, and nt a doer? We have non of them today?

You do not need to let patience happen to grow your faith so you can be complete and perfect

You do not need to wory about asking God and doubting

You do not need to exult the lowly

You do not have to endure temptation

You do not have to worry about thinking you are being tempted by God

You do not have to worry about having a claimed faith only. And go thrugh life thinking your saved because you claimed to have faith, then get to heaven only to see your claimed faith was dead (no faith at all) but just an emotional response (belief)

Dude, you hurt yourself.. you need to stop.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#335
#335
John146 said:
The blood was applied because they obeyed the word of God whatever it was that God gave them. No one was looking forward to the cross. No one.
Click to expand...
No one even knew of the cross

What they were looking for was the promise, which started in Gen 15. The one later called the suffering servant, who would take the sin of the people

No. Obedience was NOT the means of salvation

David was called a man after God BEFORE he did any work

Abraham was considered righteous before he did any work.

Their work PROVED thay had true faith (of course God does not need proof. WE DO)
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#336
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#336
eternally-gratefull said:
Um, James was given that gospel BEFORE paul even had it.

So not sure what your tryign to say.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by grace. And never by works. So if james was claiming we were literally saved by works, james would have been a false teacher anyway (he is not by the way)



To prove to them he did have the correct gospel (all they knew him as was a Pharisee who went around killing christians)

Did Paul teach them a new gospel??

Think about that!
Click to expand...
You didn’t even realised there was a gospel of the kingdom for the Jews.

But that is expected. As I said it takes a dispensationalist to accept that.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#337
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#337
eternally-gratefull said:
Oh

So you can not be a hearer only, and nt a doer? We have non of them today?

You do not need to let patience happen to grow your faith so you can be complete and perfect

You do not need to wory about asking God and doubting

You do not need to exult the lowly

You do not have to endure temptation

You do not have to worry about thinking you are being tempted by God

You do not have to worry about having a claimed faith only. And go thrugh life thinking your saved because you claimed to have faith, then get to heaven only to see your claimed faith was dead (no faith at all) but just an emotional response (belief)

Dude, you hurt yourself.. you need to stop.
Click to expand...
Are the sick healed when elders pray over them? Every time, no ifs or buts? Are sins forgiven through the prayers of others? During the 2000 years of the Church, has the Lord’s coming been nigh?

Does the following literally describe you? The body of Christ? Or do you privately interpret it other than what it literally says?

2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#339
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#339
Guojing said:
You don't need to be a dispensationalist to separate the Old Testament from the New.

However, when it comes to the book of James and relating to it properly from the perspective of a Gentile Church, that takes a dispensationalist. :)
Click to expand...
If you take the Bible literally where it is intended, and see that God often deals with Israel separate from the Church, then that to me is the core of the dispensational approach. Personally I see that James applies to both the Jewish and Gentile believers.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#340
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#340
John146 said:
Gospel of the circumcision vs the gospel of the uncircumcision...there is a difference, hence the two terms.
Click to expand...
It's still the same Gospel to both. The terms used reflect the different target groups.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.