Not By Works

No such thing as heart submission to knowledge. Knowledge already resides in the heart/mind, you can't have it and again have a heart submission to it. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Are you by any chance talking about the heart that pumps blood? knowledge can't be there you know.

Yet in Heb 4, we are told that we having already received the good news (having faith), we need to hold fast so that we can enter into His rest, if we don't, our punishment is worse.
So the message is faith can be lost.

There was no heart submission to that knowledge or else these dogs and pigs would have been transformed into sheep. You need to look a little deeper and stop trying so hard to accommodate your biased doctrine.

That's who this letter is written TO but not everyone mentioned in this letter has received salvation through faith in Christ (hence, dogs and pigs).

As I already explained in post #103,398 - Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature (which is a divine nature) and have been transformed from dogs and pigs into sheep and also have new desires. The change is more than the cosmetic change for these dogs and pigs in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.* You can try all you want to explain this truth away, but to no avail.

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By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected - bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being in Christ (FAITH) effect of being in Christ (FRUIT).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart?

The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. *Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

You can have the "knowledge" yet with no heart submission to the knowledge which explains the falling away from it. NEVER SAVED.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and I don't expect you to understand. Do we merely believe (in our head) that God raised Jesus from the dead or in our HEART that God raised Him from the dead? (Romans 10:9,10) Do you even understand the difference? Judas Iscariot had the knowledge of Jesus Christ (spent 3 years with him as one of the 12) yet still chose to betray Him. No heart submission there.

2 Pet 2: 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Nothing about them having or not having heart submission to knowledge. They are falling away from it (faith in Christ) means they had it. Even explained further, they had known righteousness and turned back from it.

And do you think this part is written for pigs and foxes?

Judas fell from Grace and faith. That's my point. So it is true then that a person can have the knowledge in Christ (faith) and still fall from it. Thanks for another demonstration.

No you don't.

1. Having knowledge means you accept/understand/believe in. In this case, they had the knowledge of Christ meaning that they believed in Christ (Faith in Christ) and were considered righteous even as per the passage:

2 Pet 2: 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2. Knowledge already resides in the heart/mind. If you have it in your heart, you can not have a heart submission to it again.

3. Having faith in Christ alone and having a heart submission to your faith effectively dismantles the idea that salvation is by faith in Christ alone. Where will you fit your newly found "heart submission to it"? According to you, salvation is by faith in Christ and heart submission to it.

Hebrews 4:11 - Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Hebrews 4:2 - For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest.. The message is be like US who believe the gospel and enter that rest and don't be like THEM who fail to mix faith with what they heard and fall by the same example of disobedience.

There is a contradiction is the idea someone could say they lost their salvation.
You cannot lose something you do not have. If the thing is a future event, you can lose
the qualification to that thing.

Can you lose ones faith? Yes, there are people who have done this in scripture.
Can you rebel against God when once you were faithful? Yes.

If staying faithful and walking the path, qualifies one for salvation, ie faith with works,
then not having faith with works, disqualifies one.

Jesus put it simply. Your name is written in the lambs book of life. It could be removed,
which means you lose your salvation.

5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels
Rev 3

8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
Rev 13

28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
Psalm 69

32 But now, please forgive their sin-but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written."
33 The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.
Exodus 32

3 Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Phil 4

Written in the book of life, one is safe, saved. Blotted out and removed, lost salvation.
God had peoples name is Israel in the book of life, but He blotted out some.

No, Judas DID NOT fall from grace through faith. You have no point. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-70; 13:10-11). I can see that there is just no getting through to you at all.

Heb 4:3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
......
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

It is not God to make the effort for us.

Acts 1:
15In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (a gathering of about a hundred and twenty) and said,16“Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit foretold through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17He was one of our number and shared in this ministry.”

18(Now with the reward for his wickedness Judas bought a field; and there he fell headlong and burst open in the middle, and all his intestines spilled out. 19This became known to all who lived in Jerusalem; so they called that field in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Do you think Judas was sharing in the ministry of wickedness?

I love everyone who proclaims Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. At times I don’t like everyone, but I definitely love them.

You did not answer the question that means you must not feel secure in your salvation that is freely given to those who believe in Jesus Christ.

The effort to enter that rest is not about works salvation, but entering that rest through faith in Christ/believing the gospel. Their disobedience in Hebrews 4 was a manifestation of their unbelief. You think this is ALL about YOU.

Love is not a proclamation, it is a work. If God had only proclaimed to love you, you'd still be in your sins, He came and died for you (worked).

Love is not a proclamation, it is a work. If God had only proclaimed to love you, you'd still be in your sins, He came and died for you (worked).

Exactly! God worked and His work is sufficient. You and I nor anyone else can work sufficiently to maintain our salvation.

Sharing in the ministry as a "nominal" Christian doesn't mean that Judas was saved. Since when does unbelieving/unclean devil/betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-70; 13:10-11) equate to saved? Judas was also referred to as the "son of perdition." (John 17:12) Does that sound like saved to you as well? Really? Even to the remaining 11 disciples Judas may have looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart and clearly stated, "he is a devil!" (John 6:70)

That’s not very loving of you to make such a caustic statement.