Not By Works

Uh huh. And you are totally wrong.

Show the Scripture that states there is no such thing as eternal security.

Who’s they?

Them.

Already posted several, including Matthew 25.

And

Luke 8:13The seeds on rocky ground are those who hear the word and receive it with joy, but they haveno root. They believe for a season, but in the time of testing, they fall away.

That does not describe people who rejoice in the eternal, irrevocable gift of salvation. Try again.

Of course it doesn't, it describes those that believed for a while and fell away meaning that they lost faith after initially believing. Also thoroughly disproves eternal security thing.

Of course it doesn't, it describes those that believed for a while and fell away meaning that they lost faith after initially believing. Also thoroughly disproves eternal security thing.

You’re close, you’re not close. Which is it?

No it doesn't.

God's inspired written word proves those who are outwardly believers are not always born again. -> Not of us.


1 John 2:19 [/B][/SIZE]
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.



Wheat and tares

What don’t you understand about having no root? Such people receive the Word with joy but have no faith in the Word. Root/faith = eternal security.

What don’t you understand about having no root? Such people receive the Word with joy but have no faith in the Word. Root/faith = eternal security.

Outwardly believer is your own creation. It is written, they believed for a season and fell away, not 'believed outwardly for a season'.

You’re close, you’re not close. Which is it?

Why do you ignore the scriptures?


No root, He never knew them, they were not of us or they surely would have continued, we are not of them.....

Not to mention the dozens you have been shown which proves there is eternal security for Gods children...

This is an interpretation, a wrong interpretation just like the others.

Jesus knows everyone.

He does not intimately know everyone..... the I never knew you is in reference to them never being part of His family....

Not general knowledge of someone...

I may know the man who I buy my groceries from but I do not KNOW Him.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


They may feel they have done enough "wonderful works" to be justified

but Jesus is not a liar


they were never Gods children


"but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"

John 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

So how did these branches get attached to Him?

John 15:1I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. 2He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

You will not be saved because you abide in the vine, you abide in the vine because you are saved.


John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.



___________

there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit
_____
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
_______

and branches void of any fruit
____
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"


this whole thing is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

pay attention to when this was said...
and what happened with judas specifically
.....
this is about two separate sorts of men/women who claim to be in Him and are part of the congregation


nothing to do with how to earn or keep salvation

(it is a gift by grace through faith)

men can't see all like God

man may say "where is this persons fruit" through a series of poor encounters

but God may know them and be working in them already


... even peter denied Jesus 3 times

there were men who could have clearly stated "he is not a believer"

but God knew better



(posted for context to help anyone who may not understand the parable)





goat and Sheep
Wheat and tares


His are kept by His power
and He will lose nothing

vvvvvvv

Yes, i really want to know. How did the non fruitful branches get attached to Jesus if He never knew them.

You will not be saved because you abide in the vine, you abide in the vine because you are saved.


John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.



___________

there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit
_____
"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"
_______

and branches void of any fruit
____
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"


this whole thing is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

pay attention to when this was said...
and what happened with judas specifically
.....
this is about two separate sorts of men/women who claim to be in Him and are part of the congregation


nothing to do with how to earn or keep salvation

(it is a gift by grace through faith)

men can't see all like God

man may say "where is this persons fruit" through a series of poor encounters

but God may know them and be working in them already


... even peter denied Jesus 3 times

there were men who could have clearly stated "he is not a believer"

but God knew better



(posted for context to help anyone who may not understand the parable)





goat and Sheep
Wheat and tares


His are kept by His power
and He will lose nothing