Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Thanks, SG! So, you mean you don't need a list of effective ordinances because you're guided by the Holy Spirit. But can you give me then a few examples of Mitzvot that you keep and other Christians don't? For example: Did you get circumcised?

Hi Deade,

I'm confused about what you believe. I thought when you and I were talking you had said that Christians didn't need to keep the law of Moses.

I don't know what RT is.

Yes, I like to follow a point out to its conclusion, testing it with the sound of mind that God gives us as believers. If someone attempts to dodge a question, I will often ask it again, or ask them to clarify.

If engaging in a discussion with me is not edifying to you, then please stop.

And peace be with you!

The law, could not be FOLLOWED by "flesh men". Flesh is weak. Flesh can not follow Gods laws perfectly.
God sent Jesus. Jesus died. He sent the comforter. When we accept Jesus, God with us, we are saved, we "crucify, kill, dis associate, render no longer in control" our flesh, this is our choice to follow God. Baptism is our sign to the world of our acceptance of this. So as Jesus died and went into the tomb, we go down into the water. As Jesus rose "in Spirit" we come up out of the water, The Spirit within us NOW is working in our lives. Dead flesh, live Spirit.

THIS SPIRIT LED NEW CREATURES, THEY FOLLOW THE LAWS. (no longer made weak by the flesh) THEY CAN'T HELP IT. THE LAWS HAVE BECOME A PART OF THEM BECAUSE THE SPIRIT INSIDE THEM, LEADING THEM, GUIDING THEM, IN CHARGE, IS THE SPIRIT OF THE LAWS AND THE PROPHETS AND/OR THE WORD AND/OR JESUS AND/OR GOD. THEY ARE NOT "UNDER" THE LAW, THEY ARE "IN" THE LAW OR THE LAW IS "IN" THEM.

Well Marcelo, like Paul said in Colossians 2 & 3 circumcision is not necessary for today's Christians, certainly not for adults. We feel the dietary laws were established at creation and are still in effect. Not much else, beside the 10 Commandments, you will need to concern yourself with because they are fairly straight forward.

That said, you must realize just like in the beatitudes you must keep a deeper spiritual interpretation of God's law. Like the love of money can break the First Commandment, if you love it more than God. When you start trying to keep the Fourth Commandment, the whole world led by Satan will attack you. All your friends and family will turn out to tell you how wrong you are. By the time you get through that, if you do, the Holy Spirit will be guiding you what to do next. I think I have given you enough to get started. View attachment 202154



We don't have to keep the law of God, but some of us do try keep the spiritual side of that law. Why? Because it is expedient.

1 Cor. 10:23 "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Some of us find that striving to walk the walk and be doers of the word, we look to the law for guidance. When we do, we find it is still a very good and useful tutor. View attachment 202155

Hey DeighAnn,

Sadly the RT guys are not there to hear our words in order to learn, No they wish to condemn us with them. Remind you of any characters in the NT?

The law, could not be FOLLOWED by "flesh men". Flesh is weak. Flesh can not follow Gods laws perfectly.
God sent Jesus. Jesus died. He sent the comforter. When we accept Jesus, God with us, we are saved, we "crucify, kill, dis associate, render no longer in control" our flesh, this is our choice to follow God. Baptism is our sign to the world of our acceptance of this. So as Jesus died and went into the tomb, we go down into the water. As Jesus rose "in Spirit" we come up out of the water, The Spirit within us NOW is working in our lives. Dead flesh, live Spirit.

THIS SPIRIT LED NEW CREATURES, THEY FOLLOW THE LAWS. (no longer made weak by the flesh) THEY CAN'T HELP IT. THE LAWS HAVE BECOME A PART OF THEM BECAUSE THE SPIRIT INSIDE THEM, LEADING THEM, GUIDING THEM, IN CHARGE, IS THE SPIRIT OF THE LAWS AND THE PROPHETS AND/OR THE WORD AND/OR JESUS AND/OR GOD. THEY ARE NOT "UNDER" THE LAW, THEY ARE "IN" THE LAW OR THE LAW IS "IN" THEM.

Interesting...A discussion is when two people listen to the merits of one anothers points and reflect on them. Not feelin it from you Dan. Wish I could say otherwise. Reminds me of the Pharisees who were always trying to set traps for Jesus. You try to set traps for others yet you cannot see the similarities!

Recommended reading: Do a search in the 4 gospels primarily , on "Pharisees" and keep a close eye on how they lurked around listening then formulating questions with which to corner and condemn Jesus with. If you honestly do this with a prayerful heart asking God to reveal anything like that in you. Well then I will be full of Joy and so will you.

Even back in the time of Moses when he first gave the list, not everything applied to every person's situation. That was one of my earlier points last week. So when asked to provide a list that everyone is to follow today, the question doesn't compute because the list already exists. Just read it and see what applies to you and your situation and then do those things.

Galatians 5:3
And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Can you interpret what the term “Whole law” means in these passages?

I know the list already exists. Here is a copy of it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Just delete all items that no longer apply and you'll have a list of effective Mitzvot. I can't do it myself because I'm not a Law-keeper, so we need one of you Law-keepers to do this job.

To your first question, that is personal. I will not answer it.

To your second question, the first three years of fruit off of a tree are not worth eating. Both the scriptures and the majority of fruit growers follow the practice of "circumcising" the small fruit that these early trees produce. Many studies have also concluded that these young fruits may contain an imbalance of nutrients from the trees immature root systems making them potentially harmful to eat.

In either case, whether leaving the fruit to grow causes future damage to the tree or to the eater it is a win win to simply pinch off the fruit for the first three fruiting years.

But since you do not keep that recommendation/courteous insight/admonition from God, then no one can ever say it was not your choice.

IMHO though it does seem unnecessarily obstinate.

Sincerely

SG

To delicious fruit!

Interesting...A discussion is when two people listen to the merits of one anothers points and reflect on them. Not feelin it from you Dan. Wish I could say otherwise. Reminds me of the Pharisees who were always trying to set traps for Jesus. You try to set traps for others yet you cannot see the similarities!

Recommended reading: Do a search in the 4 gospels primarily , on "Pharisees" and keep a close eye on how they lurked around listening then formulating questions with which to corner and condemn Jesus with. If you honestly do this with a prayerful heart asking God to reveal anything like that in you. Well then I will be full of Joy and so will you.

Marcelo said: I know the list already exists. Here is a copy of it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Just delete all items that no longer apply and you'll have a list of effective Mitzvot. I can't do it myself because I'm not a Law-keeper, so we need one of you Law-keepers to do this job.

Well if you're lawless then the whole question is moot don't you think?

That's literally what the Holy Spirit was prophesied to help you desire to do. I can't give you the desire to want to do it.

Okay, excellent reason to alter the rules of English! I back you up 1000%! I don't even like to "say" the days of the week let alone write them.

English is a fluid language isn't it?! Just as I can if I choose use two grammatical terminations to the previous sentence to make the sentence both inquisitive and an exclamation. And, I can start a sentence with "and" if I choose. You just won't play nice GP! You treat lightbearer poorly! I know why, and so do you and everyone else who is on here. The beauty of this forum is your perceived liberty to condescend with venom knowing you don't have to look into the eyes of a man who is filled with the Holy Spirit looking back at you!

You would play a different "game" then, of that I am sure!

The context of each passage gives you the definitions you seek.

- Law in Galatians 5 = the instructions to cleanse one of their sins after committed.

- Law in James 2 = the instructions to follow to avoid sinning.



Galatians 5:2-4

2 Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


Question 1: What is justification?



James 1:1

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:
Greetings.

James 1:21

Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly receive the word planted in you, which can save your souls.

Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves. For anyone who hears the word but does not carry it out is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror, and after observing himself goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continues to do so—not being a forgetful hearer, but an effective doer—he will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:8

If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom.



Question 2: What point does James make here? Is it the point you're implying? Is he saying not to obey the law (as if it's some trap)...or is he saying not to be partial with it but to SPEAK and ACT as if you'll be judged by it?

Circumcision is of the "heart" no longer of the flesh. It is spiritual. If it is done for reasons other that the Lord, cool.

All blood sacrifices ended with the Lamb of God. So the only way to "follow" the laws of Moses THAT ARE NO LONGER THE LAWS OF MOSES BECAUSE IT WAS TEMPORARY AND BUT A SHADOW OF WHAT WOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED BY THE SPIRITUAL MAN AFTER JESUS DIED AND LEFT US WITH THE COMFORTER AND THE LAWS WRITTEN UPON OUR HEARTS AND MINDS as far as ceremony and statutes and ordinances of all blood "laws" is to worship Jesus as our Lord and savior.

Food laws
Given by God our creator, to us His creation. We are told all animals are good. All animals are good, FOR THE PURPOSE THEY WERE CREATED, NOT ANY OTHER. God created clean animals to eat. God created unclean animals not to eat, but to clean the earth.
God has never once changed His position on the food laws.
Jesus never once changed His position on the food laws.
Whether we are TO JUDGE another one of Gods servants in the choices they make, WE ARE NOT. They want to break the law that is between GOD and them not us
When the blanket with all the unclean meats was brought down
He never ate
It was to show the gentiles are clean, to not call them unclean.
He never ate

Jesus, dying on the cross, did not change the "flesh" of a flesh man, nor were there any changes to anyone in the "unclean" animals.

1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Your only questions should be 1 Did God create meats to be received? Answer Yes
2.Did God create meats NOT to be received Answer Yes

God created clean, meats to be received
God created unclean, meats not to be received

God is saying you do not have to become a vegetarian.

Are these laws laws unto death? Nope
Are these laws for good health? Yep
Will you stay healthier following Gods Diet? Yep
Will you get sick eating unclean meats? Yep

In conclusion, I do not eat unclean meats.

Blood, Food, Commandments a given.

Anything tacked on by man, discard immediately.

Moral laws, render unto Caesar what is Caesar. Unto God what is Gods. Jesus says follow the laws of the land.

I'm pretty sure most people will know what day of the week I'm talking about whether I capitalize it or not.

I figured some legalist would get offended by it eventually.


I don't treat lightbearer poorly. I don't treat any of you legalists poorly.

I just point out your error. Which you really don't like.

Then I show the Truth. Which the legalist puts into their circular reasoning to continue to talk about things they don't really know anything about. Or maybe I should say they aren't as much of an expert on the subject as they seem to think?
1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

I should expect that you would understand most of what that is saying. I could continue to expound with scripture but it seems kind of lost on the legalist. Like they have a vail over their minds and can't see the forest for the trees.

Its a really big road block that I can't seem to get around. I don't think you can teach anyone how to be a Christian. I think it has to be revealed, to be given as a gift. And then once that happens a person knows how all of Christianity works.

I do like talking and arguing with legalists, though, because it continually causes me to be grateful for Christ and what He has blessed me with and how He continues to bless me.


Now, let me ask you a serious question. Is it more loving for someone to point out to someone else that they may not be a Christian even though they THINK they are; Or would it be more loving to just agree with someone who THINKS they are a Christian but probably aren't and not correct them in any way?

If someone receives rest from their work at the law do they then go back to that law and continue to work at it as though they haven't received rest?

It would probably be better to never have received rest than to receive it and then discard it and make a mockery of it. Wouldn't you agree?

I suppose not since we have 153 or so pages of this...

the funny thing about this is when you first signed on to the site, I said that you seem to push what you just said here, which you denied and chastised me strongly for suggesting it.

now you are openly saying it.

but, I guess you judeaizers are so convinced that you are right and us Christians are wrong you have to hide your beliefs until you feel safe rolling them out.

I have interacted ( proved wrong ) many of you over the years, and you all operate the same way.

show up, act friendly, hide what you really believe, then start to shout " Law" " Sabbath" at everyone ….