What do you believe and why do you believe it?

Where did God's complexity come from?

Faith is based on things not seen.

But it is built by evidence.. It is not just blind.

you do not have an accurate concept of "God" if you suppose any of His attributes "came from" anywhere

And God finds it EXTREMELY ODD when someone claims that he is an atheist. Indeed God calls him "a fool".

All your objections are inconsequential. Why would anyone believe Philo over Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, unless he is bound and determined to reject the truth and believe the lie? Who says Philo wanted the truth?

No matter, looks like you have made up you mind, and you should be on an atheistic forum. Or a godless Communist forum, where you would be more comfortable.

But this doesn't really answer my questions.

Is there any position that you couldn’t take based on faith? If not, why not?

If you had been raise in a Muslim country, for instance, would you be more likely to self-identify as a Muslim or a Christian?

How do you decide if your faith is more likely to be true than a that of a Hindu, for example?

In other words, you have no standard for morality. Therefore, your statement that you find certain actions in the Bible "immoral" is meaningless. It's fine to express it as your opinion, as in, "I find certain actions distasteful", but a standard for morality is above opinion, or it is not a standard at all.

As to why I believe as I do, I have chosen to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. I find the Bible internally consistent, consistent with the real world, and consistently reliable in my life. I have a two-way personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. God has answered prayer in my life. These things all confirm the truth of the gospel.

I originally posted this message in the New Member Intro section but a member said I should post it here. So here goes...

Colloquially speaking I am an agnostic as I don't know whether or not a god exists. Technically I am an atheist as I don't believe any god claim I have heard. Although I used to be a Christian. I was brought up in the Church of England but properly self-identified as a Christian in my twenties and believed I was saved. I had my doubts after several months as a result of speaking to atheists and ex-Christians. Some things in the Bible stopped making sense to me. Some of the Bible was immoral, some of it was inconsistent and some of it was not credible. I prayed for answers but no answers came. I now consider myself to be an ex-Christian. Every so often I like to challenge my beliefs as I think it is healthy. In that spirit I would like to ask all Christians here what do you believe and why do you believe it?

I believe everything in the Bible. I believe this way because it’s obvious that the universe had a designer and creator. That being the case, it makes sense that the creator would leave us with an owners manual.

To claim that you are a "weak atheist" because you're "not claiming that no Gods exist" is like a pregnant woman saying she's half pregnant because she's halfway through her pregnancy. She is not half pregnant … she is 100% pregnant.





Seems to me you appear to be like what Jesus described in Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.


You heard the Word and received it with joy but when confronted by "atheists and ex-christians" you had no root and, rather than turn and stand on the Rock (the Lord Jesus Christ), you were trapped in the shifting sands of those to whom you listened. Sad.






Hope/pray you continue to seek God and that you find Him.

People have let me down.

You still sat on it as if it would hold you. Which is my point. You did not have any doubt. That is how I have faith in Christ.
If you have bothered to read the Quran you would be able to know this answer, and Hindu makes even less sense.
I wasn't raised Christian, nor in a Christian environment. I was a born skeptic. As a child I didn't trust anyone especially adults. From my earliest memories I examined everything that people said testing them for logic and reason. I was well convinced that my kindergarten teacher was making a mockery of how gullible the other children were; because they played the games with out any question and looked a fool doing it. Man it was difficult looking at an adult as a child and knowing they were lying. There was no security for me, there was only being on guard. I watched the adults lie to children and to other adults, I watched children lie to each other and adults. The only rest was sitting alone away from everyone. I spoke as rarely as possible, usually only when I knew I would have to or I would be pressed. I was called antisocial, and cynical little old man.
Sometimes I wondered if it were easier to just play along, I would try to fake it and fail miserably.
But then there was a neighbor who went to church every Sunday, and His parents where honest, and had an austere but kind way, and it was really his mom mostly. By this the I was a bit of a hooligan and trouble maker, kind of a the world sucks so let her burn, kind of thing. Well, they took me to church, and I went as many Sundays as I could. There the Gospel was preached and it was with out any doubt the truth. That took hold of my life and set me on a long hard road, but it was a true one.
Yea as soon as I could I escaped from my prison that some called my home. I have never been quite sure what to call it. Prison isn't quite right but home wasn't right either. I abandoned church and continued with my rebellious life, but that truth still set on my mind nagging me pulling my hand back from many evils. That truth finally convicted me and condemned me yet strangely enough also set me free.

Now you are being very disingenuous - and I suspect you are perhaps not so honest about your desire to learn about Jesus as
your Lord and Saviour …
those scriptures you dismiss so readily will first, if you bothered to read them and be thoughtful, actually explain HOW you
can know God directly and with truth. No small gift to be tossed away.
Second, they immediately followed my reply post to your OP which I noticed you have not acknowledged.
Too direct for you?
No theological waffle for you to argue with and to play internet games with?

You can have a personal relationship with God directly with all the evidence you need.
God dwelling in you and your spirit connected with God.
You can enjoy the power and presence of God in your life, and enjoy many miracles, healings (for yourself and others) and
much answered prayer > blessings.
God will even give you a spiritual tongue to pray directly to Heaven to build up and to reward your faith and your walk.
You can receive the Holy Spirit of God - the Spirit of truth who will teach you about walking in righteousness and open your eyes
to understanding the Word of God.

I am writing about being a Pentecostal Christian.
For it is in the Pentecostal faith and life that we have in our churches numerous testimonies to being converted by the baptism
of the Holy Spirit and first, how our lives dramatically changed for the better; second, to miracles, healings and blessings.
The God of truth enables a true worshipper to experience his truth and power.
So stop wasting time on the internet and seek the Lord and his salvation while you can.
http://revivalfellowship.uk/

Logical syllogism:
1. If the Christian God exists he desires for us to know X.
2. If the Christian God exists he has the power for us to know X.
3. If the Christian God exists then, given 1 & 2, we should know X.
4. Most people on the planet do not know X.
5. Given 3 & 4, the Christian God probably doesn’t exist.

Nonsense:

That's all just nonsense.

You could spend a lifetime just reading academic works which intelligently and logically defend theism.
You clearly didn't investigate these answers thoroughly because you weren't interested.

If you had any interest in rational explanations for theism, and you wanted theistic answers, you would STILL BE READING ACADEMIC WORKS on the subject... there is a virtually endless supply of scholarly works written over many centuries by some of the greatest minds who ever lived.

I doubt you read ANY serious or scholarly works by top Christian academics or philosophers.

Nonetheless, if you were trying to do THOROUGH research on your doubts, you would STILL be reading academic works supporting theism, because there are centuries of great thought put into these topics.

You could spend several lifetimes just studying the philosophical defenses for theism.
If you aren't STILL studying Christian scholars, then you weren't really looking for theistic answers.
That is the proof.

Rigorous Debate:

Furthermore, in genuine academic debate, atheism does NOT hold up well against theism.
Atheism is actually rife with coherency problems.
Most atheist scholars, when entering into academic debate, will usually turn out to be completely ignorant of the topics they're addressing.
They're usually so given over to presupposition, that they actually have no awareness of the finer points of the topics, or of their own commitment to logical fallacy.

They don't have good arguments.

Atheists are not atheists because they have better arguments... they are atheists because they simply WANT to be.


Epistemology:

Really?
Instead of discussing the finer points of deeper arguments, you're here trying to deconvert believers by challenging their epistemology?
That's all you've got?

Isn't that like atheism 101?

You clearly read somewhere that would stump most Christians.
It's what atheists always do.
Why?
Because most Christians are just normal folks; they're just trying to get through the day and be good people... they aren't trained in philosophy and dealing with rigorous logical defenses to epistemic challenges.

ALMOST NO ONE IS.

Because they aren't trained in this, they are likely to STATE THEIR CASE in a way which leaves some holes, and you're already prepared to move into the gap and attack those holes.

This is typical atheism.
They read up on a few debate tricks, and a few tricky sounding arguments (which almost always contain logical fallacies), and then they go around trying to stump Christians.

Ugh.

By the way, NOBODY who is untrained can give logically defensible answers to epistemic challenges.
That includes atheists.
Atheists quickly melt down, and come apart, if the Christian starts asking all the questions.

That's why I don't tolerate all this nonsense.

.


..
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There are so many assertions and assumptions in what you have written I honestly don't know where to start.

Epistemology... quick defensible answers:


Christians, please pay attention.


1. It is logically coherent, and logically tenable, for a theist to simply say, "I believe in God because I have experienced him in a direct and personal way."
This is not a subjective answer, this is an answer of one's personal experience of an external and objective reality.

This is logically tenable, and will hold up to philosophical scrutiny.


..

Sorry you feel that way. What I've said isn't nonsense. It's an accurate and honest account of my feelings on the matter. If Christian faith cannot withstand a little bit of scrutiny, is it really worth having? How powerful is your God really? A paper tiger protecting a House of Cards? One mild breeze could send the lot tumbling down.

health is preferable to illness, life is preferable to death