Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#3,621
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
#3,621
I just want to say, as for what 1 Corinthians 10:11 is communicating, "Now these things happened to them as types and were written for our admonition, to [/upon] whom the ends [plural] of the ages [plural] are arrived."...

...that this is referring to the two ways in which they are to be properly "applied" (for [/unto] the two distinct persons/sets-of-persons being referenced here). IOW, while WE ["the Church which is His body"] can apply the things written (i.e. apply to ourselves) in ONE sense [you could say, in a "spiritual" sense], they will elsewise be applied to ISRAEL in a more literal sense [in their future]: for example, "the entering of the promised land"... for US ['the Church which is His body'], we "apply" that in a spiritual sense, but in Israel's FUTURE days, this will be applied in a LITERAL sense--their entering the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, promised to THEM).

So, yes, the OT is VERY IMPORTANT for "our learning," but only if properly understood, and properly applied. ;)
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,622
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,622
SimpleGardner said:
Welcome Tx77, Just started here in the Spring. Great place to challenge your knowledge base. The Holy Spirit has had your attention, I can tell by what you stated. The OT study is amazing isn't it!
Click to expand...
Yes it is!! I was recently in a study where it was stated to the general point of the OT is not applicable today. I haven't been back since. Not true! It sheds so much truth when studied properly and under those who can actually read it and have practiced it. It has challenged me and the seed was planted two years ago - it is just now being watered lol. After further research I am finding the NT is hard to fully understand without true understanding of the OT. Something I heard that really hit home with me "We believe what we have heard, not what we have read."
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#3,623
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
#3,623
EDIT: wanted to insert re: US/the Church which is His body... "possessing our possessions" pertains (for US) to the "here and now," rather than, say, at our Rapture (or death...), and that this is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3:11-14, etc... (not the physical, bodily resurrection we'll experience in the "future" [which is also true, but just not what that context is speaking of]). This being just one example of how things can get "mis-applied" in the process :)
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#3,624
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#3,624
Tx77 said:
I have recently started seeking God on this very subject over the past couple of months. I am still learning but I feel like too many disregard the Old Testament due to the "not being under the law". I find it to be absolutely fundamental in my walk with God as it parallels with the New Testament. I am not deep enough to really state any firm beliefs, but I will say this. I do believe we are still supposed to keep the Seven Festivals of the Messiah .....but I have very limited knowledge as to how to do that, hence the research. I also believe too much grace and mercy are taught (please don't take this wrong) but my point is - I do feel God still expects us to live a righteous life. Of course we will all fall short and sin as we are humans but I do feel there is something deeper to following God. He came to fullfill not abolish the law. As I said in the beginning I am just getting started in finding truth regarding this but those are my thoughts - they may be completely off from your OP ....but there they are.
Click to expand...
Well, I do believe we are not under the Law, but the Old Testament is fundamental and should by no means be disregarded. However, I believe that for salvation purposes we have to refer mainly to Paul’s letters.

In fact many Christians rely too much on "grace" and "mercy" and I agree with you that God expects us to live a righteous life. I know many church goers who are more sinful than unbelievers and think that Jesus died for ALL our sins, past and future. No, they are being completely misguided for without holiness no one will be saved.

As for the exact meaning of FULFILL I don’t have a conclusive answer. This verse is still a mystery to me.
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,625
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,625
Marcelo said:
Well, I do believe we are not under the Law, but the Old Testament is fundamental and should by no means be disregarded. However, I believe that for salvation purposes we have to refer mainly to Paul’s letters.

In fact many Christians rely too much on "grace" and "mercy" and I agree with you that God expects us to live a righteous life. I know many church goers who are more sinful than unbelievers and think that Jesus died for ALL our sins, past and future. No, they are being completely misguided for without holiness no one will be saved.

As for the exact meaning of FULFILL I don’t have a conclusive answer. This verse is still a mystery to me.
Click to expand...
"I know many church goers who are more sinful than unbelievers and think that Jesus died for ALL our sins, past and future" I completely agree with this and have heard it within the last couple of months - which prompted me to dive deeper.

It is still a work in progress and I am not disputing your beliefs - I think I am just trying to uncover the full truth of God and not the sermons that simply "tickle my ears". That very thing was quoted regarding already forgiven for all sins, past and future. One must be careful when stating something like that because to new believers or even to mature ones - it can mislead them into thinking they can do whatever they want due to already being forgiven.
 
S

SimpleGardner

Banned
#3,626
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
#3,626
Jackson123 said:
Yes, Logically speaking, It is impossible to love God and love the world.

But in every day life I my self still do sin.

That is why, when a drug dealer say he have strong faith in Jesus.

And he also say he have girl friend, + some time extra sex with other woman.

We may not doing drug like him, fo not have sex with other woman, but in our heart, we may commit adultery and It is sin, so we not must different with him. But people in town do not believe he have strong faith in Jesus.

Some time i ask my self, Paul put adultery as a list of sin that make us not inherit the kingdom

1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

How about salvation not by work, but grace?

Is that mean These verse Lie?

Or These verse not Lie,

I think back and forth

Or may be

We can not do this law of our selve but If we abide in Him He do for us.

A branch can not bear fruit of itself

Only If a brand abide to the vine It Will bear fruit.

So It is a grace If we able to bear fruit

Bear fruit is a grace because we not able to do It.

In other word, we can not work for salvation
Click to expand...
Where does knowledge begin? Prov 1

Many never begin to know because they fail to position themselves in humility before God!

Many in this world try to make grace give them immunity before God. Otherwise they (their carnal pride) has to die.

When we establish a proper "fear/reverence" then there is an opportunity to Know/learn.

If you wish, you may allow yourself to be wooed into simply letting go and allowing God to do it all, this is cheap grace and is not supported by scripture unless you pick and choose and ignore 95% or the rest of scripture.

Seek, knock, ask! Humble yourself and you will receive .
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3,627
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#3,627
SimpleGardner said:
Where does knowledge begin? Prov 1

Many never begin to know because they fail to position themselves in humility before God!

Many in this world try to make grace give them immunity before God. Otherwise they (their carnal pride) has to die.

When we establish a proper "fear/reverence" then there is an opportunity to Know/learn.

If you wish, you may allow yourself to be wooed into simply letting go and allowing God to do it all, this is cheap grace and is not supported by scripture unless you pick and choose and ignore 95% or the rest of scripture.

Seek, knock, ask! Humble yourself and you will receive .
Click to expand...
Seem to me you believe salvation grace do not mean we can kill or commit adultery and still save.

Not to kill is easy, but adultery in the heart is not an easy task.

But Yes I believe I bellieve what Jesus say, If we abide in Him we Will bear fruit.

It may take time, not over night. Like If we wash our cloth It take 45 minute not in a second.

Just my opinion
 
S

SimpleGardner

Banned
#3,628
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
#3,628
Tx77 said:
Yes it is!! I was recently in a study where it was stated to the general point of the OT is not applicable today. I haven't been back since. Not true! It sheds so much truth when studied properly and under those who can actually read it and have practiced it. It has challenged me and the seed was planted two years ago - it is just now being watered lol. After further research I am finding the NT is hard to fully understand without true understanding of the OT. Something I heard that really hit home with me "We believe what we have heard, not what we have read."
Click to expand...

I literally met God in a profound way in the book of Leviticus! I fell in love with Him through His Torah! I'm not trying to sound oooh ahhh, but I was overwhelmed by the perfection of it! Shared that in Sunday School when I used to go to Sunday School and they looked at my like i needed mental help! Not really that bad, but an obvious wall of HUH? looking back at me!

You left! Brilliant! In the back of your mind the Holy Spirit was saying;

Pro 9:6 KJV Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

It's amazing how we can read the scriptures and give it a moment, and almost subconsciously, yet bases on our prayers and desires the Holy Spirit will move our heart and mind based on the word!

NT needs OT How true!;

Psa 40:7-8 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Joh 5:46 KJV For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.


There is so much in the OT!

You are going to find some lovely hearts and minds for God and Yahshua here!
 
S

SimpleGardner

Banned
#3,629
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
#3,629
Jackson123 said:
Seem to me you believe salvation grace do not mean we can kill or commit adultery and still save.

Not to kill is easy, but adultery in the heart is not an easy task.

But Yes I believe I bellieve what Jesus say, If we abide in Him we Will bear fruit.

It may take time, not over night. Like If we wash our cloth It take 45 minute not in a second.

Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Remember Jobs example;
Job 31:1 KJV I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

It is a matter of trust and commitment. God will match your commitment to overcoming what controls you. Make the first move.
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#3,630
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#3,630
Tx77 said:
"I know many church goers who are more sinful than unbelievers and think that Jesus died for ALL our sins, past and future" I completely agree with this and have heard it within the last couple of months - which prompted me to dive deeper.

It is still a work in progress and I am not disputing your beliefs - I think I am just trying to uncover the full truth of God and not the sermons that simply "tickle my ears". That very thing was quoted regarding already forgiven for all sins, past and future. One must be careful when stating something like that because to new believers or even to mature ones - it can mislead them into thinking they can do whatever they want due to already being forgiven.
Click to expand...
Most churches don't preach the genuine Gospel either because the pastors themselves don't know the truth or because they are afraid to lose member$.

In my denomination there is no tithing and ministers are not paid so that they don't need to please people -- they tell the truth and the truth is: without holiness no one will be saved.
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,631
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,631
Marcelo said:
Most churches don't preach the genuine Gospel either because the pastors themselves don't know the truth or because they are afraid to lose member$.

In my denomination there is no tithing and ministers are not paid so that they don't need to please people -- they tell the truth and the truth is: without holiness no one will be saved.
Click to expand...
You are exactly right about some pastors being too afraid of offending members vs preaching the truth. That is what started my journey for the full truth. As I was just discussing with my father, not all sermons should be feel good sermons, toes need to be stepped on every once in awhile. I grew tired of "everything is going to be ok" type of messages.

I want rock solid truth of the gospel and while I have heard it many times, I want to go deeper with God and not just take things at face value. It has not been comfortable, challenging my foundation, the ministries I followed for years being exposed, but I want the truth. There has to be a balance between spirit and truth.
 
S

SimpleGardner

Banned
#3,632
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
#3,632
Tx77 said:
You are exactly right about some pastors being too afraid of offending members vs preaching the truth. That is what started my journey for the full truth. As I was just discussing with my father, not all sermons should be feel good sermons, toes need to be stepped on every once in awhile. I grew tired of "everything is going to be ok" type of messages.

I want rock solid truth of the gospel and while I have heard it many times, I want to go deeper with God and not just take things at face value. It has not been comfortable, challenging my foundation, the ministries I followed for years being exposed, but I want the truth. There has to be a balance between spirit and truth.
Click to expand...
That desire you have, a gift for sure. I realized a while back to be persistent is asking for more of that, Oh, and I hope I am not saying too much, but your zeal is encouraging! I found that when we petition our Heavenly Father for Good things...HE DELIVERS! Ask what you will...Jesus challenged us! Not a car obviously, but for Wisdom, understanding, deliverance from error...:)
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3,633
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#3,633
SimpleGardner said:
Remember Jobs example;
Job 31:1 KJV I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

It is a matter of trust and commitment. God will match your commitment to overcoming what controls you. Make the first move.
Click to expand...
Yep the first move is abide in Him, than He Will make us bear fruit
 
Marcelo

Marcelo

Senior Member
#3,634
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
#3,634
DeighAnn said:
THE LAW OF MOSES IS NO MORE.
It has been replaced by a new law. Read some of it in Matt 5 where Jesus says 5 times "But I say unto you" and gives the description of the law as it was under Moses, FOLLOWED BY THE NEW COVENANT LAW UNDER JESUS, Called the law of the kingdom of God. When Jesus is telling me the law used to say BUT NOW HE SAYS, I myself just take that as law from God and I best follow it.
Click to expand...
Oh, now I see what you mean! You believe that the law of Moses was replaced with the law of Christ, right?

Well, I believe that the Lord Jesus actually expounded the law of Moses, bringing it to a higher level. Jesus, while on Earth, preached to the Jews only and after the resurrection He used Paul to announce the Gospel of grace.

I believe that Jesus' words are eternal, but for salvation purposes we have to refer mainly to Paul's and other apostles' letters.
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,635
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,635
SimpleGardner said:
That desire you have, a gift for sure. I realized a while back to be persistent is asking for more of that, Oh, and I hope I am not saying too much, but your zeal is encouraging! I found that when we petition our Heavenly Father for Good things...HE DELIVERS! Ask what you will...Jesus challenged us! Not a car obviously, but for Wisdom, understanding, deliverance from error...:)
Click to expand...
Yes!!! I found myself not wanting to get into my Word, because I have read it all and had the mindset "I know it all" - which of course isn't true lol. I have found that a place of comfort is equal to being lukewarm. We must keep a learning spirit and pursue the Lord in all we do. I have been lukewarm for awhile and desired for something to ignite in me - it took the challenge of my foundation to rock my comfortable Christian boat I was sailing in. I saw God moving through this time as a dear friend was questioning some things and we came together to start an in home bible study to learn together. Keep moving forward because He has so much He wants to reveal to us!
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#3,636
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#3,636
Tx77 said:
You are exactly right about some pastors being too afraid of offending members vs preaching the truth. That is what started my journey for the full truth. As I was just discussing with my father, not all sermons should be feel good sermons, toes need to be stepped on every once in awhile. I grew tired of "everything is going to be ok" type of messages.

I want rock solid truth of the gospel and while I have heard it many times, I want to go deeper with God and not just take things at face value. It has not been comfortable, challenging my foundation, the ministries I followed for years being exposed, but I want the truth. There has to be a balance between spirit and truth.
Click to expand...
And the real truth is love your God and love your neighbors, that 2 word tak a Lot of work.

For Example love your neighbors, mean tell your fellow man about how to save by believing Jesus.

Paul do a Lot of work to preach the gospel. Stephen do alot of work to the point to die for doing to love the fellow man.

Faith may not work, salvation not by work, but salvation create a Lot of work It cost Paul work day and night.

Free, by grace but not cheap
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#3,637
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
#3,637
Marcelo said:
Jesus, while on Earth, preached to the Jews only and after the resurrection He used Paul to announce the Gospel of grace.
Click to expand...
Yes, and this is what Acts 3:12-26 is saying ^

("His Servant Jesus" vv.13,26; and v.22's "a prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me [Moses]," with chpt 3 using TWO DISTINCT contexts/references/applications/usages of the word "raise": the one referring to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death vv.22,26..., the other referring to His resurrection from the dead AFTER His death, v.15 [obviously :D ], BOTH in this Acts 3 context)
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#3,638
Aug 3, 2018
10,214
1,980
113
#3,638
… and the misunderstanding of THAT ^ leads one to improperly "apply" and result in such things as Amillennialism and Preterism and the like.
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,639
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,639
SimpleGardner said:
I literally met God in a profound way in the book of Leviticus! I fell in love with Him through His Torah! I'm not trying to sound oooh ahhh, but I was overwhelmed by the perfection of it! Shared that in Sunday School when I used to go to Sunday School and they looked at my like i needed mental help! Not really that bad, but an obvious wall of HUH? looking back at me!

You left! Brilliant! In the back of your mind the Holy Spirit was saying;

Pro 9:6 KJV Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

It's amazing how we can read the scriptures and give it a moment, and almost subconsciously, yet bases on our prayers and desires the Holy Spirit will move our heart and mind based on the word!

NT needs OT How true!;

Psa 40:7-8 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Joh 5:46 KJV For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.


There is so much in the OT!

You are going to find some lovely hearts and minds for God and Yahshua here!
Click to expand...
Somehow I missed this post!!!

I have to laugh at your comment regarding the response from the others! I can so relate. That is how I looked when they said to be careful when referring to the OT. My mouth dropped open and I almost verbally said "WHAT?" LOL So I can relate to the look you have received.

I have been following a teaching on The Book Of Revelation. It was said during the teaching to fully understand this book you need to understand the prophets of the OT. How profound and something I have never thought of before. As i continued and an hour later we were only on Chapter 1 vs. 7 I understand how much more there is to know!! How refreshing it is to start to make sense of things you could never fully understand. There is a reason for that - it is meant to all go together.

I was just telling my daughter about the actual name of God (YHWH) and Jesus (Yeshua) last night!! I will stop as I believe I am jumping trains as to the OP but I do feel like you and I are on the same kind of journey. Love this!
 
T

Tx77

Member
#3,640
Aug 8, 2019
62
51
18
#3,640
SimpleGardner said:
I literally met God in a profound way in the book of Leviticus! I fell in love with Him through His Torah! I'm not trying to sound oooh ahhh, but I was overwhelmed by the perfection of it! Shared that in Sunday School when I used to go to Sunday School and they looked at my like i needed mental help! Not really that bad, but an obvious wall of HUH? looking back at me!

You left! Brilliant! In the back of your mind the Holy Spirit was saying;

Pro 9:6 KJV Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

It's amazing how we can read the scriptures and give it a moment, and almost subconsciously, yet bases on our prayers and desires the Holy Spirit will move our heart and mind based on the word!

NT needs OT How true!;

Psa 40:7-8 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (8) I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Joh 5:46 KJV For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.


There is so much in the OT!

You are going to find some lovely hearts and minds for God and Yahshua here!
Click to expand...
Add on to original reply - private message me if you would like!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.