The Irreducible Complex System (Psa. 77:13)

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TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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The Irreducible Complex System (Psa. 77:13)

Bible - Sanctuary - Irreducibly Complex System.jpg

Bible - Irreducible Complexity Defined 01.jpg

Bible - Irreducible Complexity Defined 02.jpg

This thread is about the first Picture, the Irreducible Complex System of the Plan of Redemption as it is in the Sanctuary of God. All parts are required to be in at-one-ment, to remove any one, the whole ceases to function, no longer being in at-one-ment and the Plan of Redemption cannot work.

Most persons stop at the Courtyard in the Altar of Burnt Offering, and think Calvary finished everything. What they do not realize is that "It is finished." refers to the work of the atoning sacrifice, the laying the foundation of the final Temple in the corner stone, the perfect character of Christ Jesus, not the work of the Great High Priest, as per Hebrews and Revelation, etc. Passover is not Pentecost, neither Trumpets, Atonement or Tabernacles.

As Creation, so too Re-Creation (Redemption).
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Except for the fact that being justified is first on the list after one is saved by faith and all 4 below are a one off event with present continuing results.....and the order is....

saved---->justified---->sanctified----->glorified.......<-----ALL of these are a DONE deal in Christ, eternally given at the moment of genuine belief.....

The only one that has a dual application is Sanctification......

a. We are sanctified positionally in Christ eternally at the moment of belief <--see Hebrews
b. Concerning our daily life and living, sanctification is a process of growth and maturity based entirely upon the transformational process described in Romans 12:1-2.....it is subject to successes and or failures....

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
 
TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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dcontroversal said:
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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Refers to Jesus, "in whom", since Jesus is the "elect" - Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18.

Being "glorified" in Christ, doesn't mean that such an persons is glorified presently, except as Christ their Lord presently is (Acts 3:13), He being the Head, and soon (not yet) we too (the body), if faithful, shall be even as He is.

Same with "sanctified".

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus both together:

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1Pe_5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Col_3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

People misunderstand Romans 8.

Rev_19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

People reject the work of Christ Jesus in Heaven since His ascension and even now, as the Great High Priest.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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TulafonoESefulu said:
Refers to Jesus, "in whom", since Jesus is the "elect" - Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18.

Being "glorified" in Christ, doesn't mean that such an persons is glorified presently, except as Christ their Lord presently is (Acts 3:13), He being the Head, and soon (not yet) we too (the body), if faithful, shall be even as He is.

Same with "sanctified".

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus both together:

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1Pe_5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Col_3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

People misunderstand Romans 8.

Rev_19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

People reject the work of Christ Jesus in Heaven since His ascension and even now, as the Great High Priest.
Click to expand...
I disagree....Greek verb tense is clear...especially when the Perfect Tense and Aorist tense is used.........it is a done deal before the throne with present continuing results from a past completed action.....the only thing we await is the resurrected/changed body......
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#6
One thing you need to remember is our glorification has yet to take place. We are still in need. Still sinners, If not for Christ, we would still require animal sacrifice for our sin (even though as Hebrews puts it. The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin)

Justification is a deal which was accomplished on the cross. When he said it is finished (literally “pain in full”) he meant what he said, Our penalty was paid in full.

When we are saved, We are positionally sanctified in christ, or separate from the world..

The cross completed all three. For without it, none could be accomplished.

Not sure what you mean stop in the courtyard. Christ entered the holy of holies and sacrificed himself as the sacrifice of atonement, The cross completed the action. The action the high priest could never accomplish.

 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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TulafonoESefulu said:
That's glorification.
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Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

PAST TENSE with present continuing results.....GOD sees it as a DONE DEAL already........and that IS the POINT
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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eternally-gratefull said:
One thing you need to remember is our glorification has yet to take place. We are still in need. Still sinners, If not for Christ, we would still require animal sacrifice for our sin (even though as Hebrews puts it. The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin)

Justification is a deal which was accomplished on the cross. When he said it is finished (literally “pain in full”) he meant what he said, Our penalty was paid in full.

When we are saved, We are positionally sanctified in christ, or separate from the world..

The cross completed all three. For without it, none could be accomplished.

Not sure what you mean stop in the courtyard. Christ entered the holy of holies and sacrificed himself as the sacrifice of atonement, The cross completed the action. The action the high priest could never accomplish.
Click to expand...
What many cannot grasp is the truth that IN GOD'S EYES it is ALL a done deal and FINISHED already...........note the verse....IT does not say WILL glorify........it is a past TENSE application just like JUSTIFIED.......

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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eternally-gratefull said:
Christ entered the holy of holies
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Not at his ascension.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He only entered into the Holy place at His ascension, not the Most Holy place.

Hebrews shows the two phases.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#11
#11
dcontroversal said:
What many cannot grasp is the truth that IN GOD'S EYES it is ALL a done deal and FINISHED already...........note the verse....IT does not say WILL glorify........it is a past TENSE application just like JUSTIFIED.......

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Click to expand...
Hmm, Never thought of it this way

To me glorification is when our positional sanctification (our life) and our justification unite as one (we can not longer sin)

But you make a point
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#12
#12
TulafonoESefulu said:
Not at his ascension.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He only entered into the Holy place at His ascension, not the Most Holy place.

Hebrews shows the two phases.
Click to expand...
Never said it was at his ascension. It was while he was on the cross. His blood was spilt on the spiritual alter. And he gave his life as atonement for our sin. Just like the high priest went in once a year to make atonement for the sin of Israel.

its why the curtain was tore in two.. the law was fulfilled at that moment.

When he said it was finished, Atonement was paid for. IN FULL
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#13
#13
TulafonoESefulu said:
Refers to Jesus, "in whom", since Jesus is the "elect" - Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18.

Being "glorified" in Christ, doesn't mean that such an persons is glorified presently, except as Christ their Lord presently is (Acts 3:13), He being the Head, and soon (not yet) we too (the body), if faithful, shall be even as He is.

Same with "sanctified".

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus both together:

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1Pe_5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Col_3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

People misunderstand Romans 8.

Rev_19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

People reject the work of Christ Jesus in Heaven since His ascension and even now, as the Great High Priest.
Click to expand...
The fact is

Once a person is justified. It is done..

Personal sanctification is an ongoing process. And will continue until death

Glorification is assured. It is not in question. As some want to try to say.

Either way, It says we have been glorified, a completed act. Because in Gods eyes. it is completed (he looks outside of time)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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TulafonoESefulu said:
Not at his ascension.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He only entered into the Holy place at His ascension, not the Most Holy place.

Hebrews shows the two phases.
Click to expand...
I disagree with this as well ^^^^^^^^.......


The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
 
TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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eternally-gratefull said:
Not sure what you mean stop in the courtyard. Christ entered the holy of holies and sacrificed himself as the sacrifice of atonement, The cross completed the action. The action the high priest could never accomplish.
Click to expand...
They think Calvary is the end. It was the beginning.

Jesus wasn't anointed to be High Priest until after His ascension (Psalms 133:1-3; Luke 24:49; Acts 1-2; Revelation 5:6, etc). Jesus was only priest (and sacrifice) at Calvary:

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb_7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb_8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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#16
TulafonoESefulu said:
The Irreducible Complex System (Psa. 77:13)

View attachment 202591

View attachment 202592

View attachment 202593

This thread is about the first Picture, the Irreducible Complex System of the Plan of Redemption as it is in the Sanctuary of God. All parts are required to be in at-one-ment, to remove any one, the whole ceases to function, no longer being in at-one-ment and the Plan of Redemption cannot work.

Most persons stop at the Courtyard in the Altar of Burnt Offering, and think Calvary finished everything. What they do not realize is that "It is finished." refers to the work of the atoning sacrifice, the laying the foundation of the final Temple in the corner stone, the perfect character of Christ Jesus, not the work of the Great High Priest, as per Hebrews and Revelation, etc. Passover is not Pentecost, neither Trumpets, Atonement or Tabernacles.

As Creation, so too Re-Creation (Redemption).
Click to expand...
Making this WAAY more complex than it needs to be.

Believe in WHO Jesus is, God in the flesh, that He died for your sin debt, and that He rose from the grave.

We don't need to build a better mousetrap!
 
TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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#17
PennEd said:
Making this WAAY more complex than it needs to be.

Believe in WHO Jesus is, God in the flesh, that He died for your sin debt, and that He rose from the grave.

We don't need to build a better mousetrap!
Click to expand...
See, you fulfil what I said. They stop at Calvary. Only the courtyard was complete.
 
TulafonoESefulu

TulafonoESefulu

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#20
dcontroversal said:
He entered the holy place once for all
Click to expand...
Just proved what I said. Holy, not Most Holy.

Heb_9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Just proved again, what I said. The second compartment of the Heavenly Sanctuary was not yet functional until after the Holy place ministry was over.

Revelation 1-5 even shows where Jesus ascended to. Holy.
 
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